Can someone give me an in-depth explanation why Summoner is arguably the worst DPS?

[ViviAnimus]

The idea that sufficing as a class policy is not true at all because BLM got buffed, MNK got buffed, WAR got buffed and all these classes were good enough to clear coil. The original BLM buff was because it did low damage (in comparison to melee). But there was proof out there that BLM could do amazing numbers (Lipton IceTea and his BLM friend). They were even top DPS in there solid group. So BLM has good numbers.
Also, the main complaint? According to who? It's an issue, but a lot of people have uttered their complaints on the DPS issue. It's very simple. Comparative analysis between classes, especially caster classes is a good thing. If our parsers make out an obvious gap between BLM and SMN and if SE comes to other conclusions, then they have an obligitation to share those conclusions in order to justify not giving SMN a damage buff. All else is useless speculation. I seriously dislike how you reduce it to one complaint, it has been handled and now everything else seems to disappear in the background? The argument that casters are competetive (raiding spot) and the idea that BLM has infinite recourses and better damage is enough reason to buff them. That is the argument, it hasn't been refuted and it never will be. But if it's true, that parsers reflect a distorted reality regarding SMN DPS, then prove it and prove in what way it does. If not, again, pure and useless speculation.

[ViviAnimus]

Not really, just passionate about bringing the class to where it should be. I am not even directly affected by it because I am a main BLM and a good one at that. My personal drive? Being able to alternate between fights using SMN and BLM. Right now this isn't possible but for some primals. End game, SMN has no usage but for the fun part. I am a pragmatical person, and there's a lot of other people like that. Although "you mad bro" is just pure spam and should be reported.

[Dyvid]

The idea that sufficing as a class policy is not true at all because BLM got buffed, MNK got buffed, WAR got buffed and all these classes were good enough to clear coil. The original BLM buff was because it did low damage (in comparison to melee). Because there was proof out there that BLM could do amazing numbers (Lipton IceTea and his BLM friend).
Also, the main complaint? According to who? It's an issue, but a lot of people have uttered their complaints on the DPS issue. It's very simple. Comparative analysis between classes, especially caster classes is a good thing. If our parsers make out an obvious gap between BLM and SMN and if SE comes to other conclusions, then they have an obligitation to share those conclusions in order to justify not giving SMN a damage buff. All else is useless speculation. I seriously dislike how you reduce it to one complaints, it has been handled and now everything else seems to disappear in the background? The argument that casters are competetive (raiding spot) and the idea that BLM has infinite recourses and better damage is enough reason to buff them. That is the argument, it hasn't been refuted and it never will be. But if it's true, that parsers reflect a distorted reality regarding SMN DPS, then prove it and prove in what way it does. If not, again, pure and useless speculation.

Considering you're using 3rd party software which is against ToA, they don't have to provide you with anything. Also I didn't reduce it to one complaint, it was the one complaint that community and Yoshi-P agreed is an issue in FCOB. Don't be pissed because they didn't fix it like you or I wanted. Finally the developer of the plugin even said the parser has a minor degree of error due to how DoTs in the system are coded compared to other games.

Bottom line, based on what I've read FCoB just isn't a great encounter design for SMN. Good news is a few months from now it won't matter because the xpac will be out with new content and new dungeons to raid along with new SMN pets and abilities.

[ViviAnimus]

That is again, nonsense. First of all, using Parsers for personal use isn't necessarily against the rules. I don't harrass people with them. So that argument is useless. Again, if parsers show this, then SE needs to come out with the real numbers. They know it happens, they know there are comparisons between classes. Again, if they know this (and they do) and that the community of SMN notices a large DPS gap between them and BLM, then they need to address that. Not doing so is neglecting a whole playerbase. Can I not compare my SMN numbers with BLM? And believe me, I am probably even a better SMN than I am a BLM. So, if I only have one tool available that reflects the gap between classes. And then I can choose to have a class that reflects the better damage and infinite resources for almost all content, but I can't ask questions to SE? I am just take to this on faith that somehow SMN are doing more damage than parsers say? Please come with convincing arguments.
Stop saying the complaints to which the community focussed. The DPS gap has been there for months to look at.
The developper said it has a minor fault, a year ago. I have found no information as to how is reflects SMN damage. Still no one can tell me if this is negitavely or positively.
Bottom line, every encounter a good BLM will outDPS a good SMN, this but the exception of Leviathan Extreme. And not SMN friendly, are you even serious?
T10 is more Summoner friendly than BLM friendly
T11 is more Summoner friendly than BLM
T13 is more Summoner friendly than BLM.

What are you even talking about, mate? Why is it that people who never cleared any hard content don't know what they're talking about? Unfortunately, some who have don't have a clue either. There literally has been not one good refutation as to why SMN does not deserve a buff with the emperical data we have at hand. And what happens then? They start questioning the emperical data. Well, I am eagerly waiting for the true data. All else is speculation.

[ViviAnimus]

Again I must repeat myself and urge you to actually read what I am saying. I am going to do this once again so you can comprehend. The burden of proof is on you. We have a tool that enables us to estimate with LITTLE error the amounts of damage classes can do. If you say the numbers are wrong, it is not up to me to prove these numbers are right. I have already stated I know the numbers might be off. but we have not established how they are wrong, by which margin (actually, the creator says little) and how to reflect SMN DPS (negatively or positively). Yes, do you understand? No one here is claiming ACT is perfect. It gives us a good estimate. Understand? If the estimate is that wrong, it is up to you or SE to show how in order to not justify a SMN buff. Because right now, it looks like SMN do need a buff. Do you understand this? If SMN does not need it and if their DMG is fine, than we need concrete proof going against the obvious motion based on the evidence we have that SMN is heavily outshined.

You are not debating anyway. If people stop debating me, according to you, it's only because they have the reading comprehension of a degenerate glass of orange juice. I am not unreasonable. I bring arguments to the table and they have (AGAIN!) not been refuted. All that has been done, is repeating the same stuff over and over again and blatantly ignore the things I actually argue about and for. To summurize again:

ACT gives us a good estimate, it's not a 100% correct, but it's the only thing we have. Saying it isn't correct and not giving any concrete proof how so is not an argument. It is then up to you to either invent a tool that does reflect the correct amount of damage for legit comparative analysis or do some mathematics. It is what needs to be done in order to truly establish and end this debate. If there is a letter fy SE tomorrow that gives me the mathematics behind it that shows that SMN actually IS on par with BLM, then that is the end of the debate.
But so far, nothing like this has been given and the motion continues to exist that the likelihood of BLM doing a lot more DPS is strong based on some pretty solid findings. I hope now you finally understand.

[Kona_Nightwind]

I have read what you wrote, and it's still the same argument with no real evidence. You just change your insults around. And every once in a while you let us know how leet you are. This is an age old argument in every mmo, go to any forum and there will nerf this buff that. But the ones who get through put up lots of real numbers(large sample sizes) with lots of solid math. Its around 40-80 DPS because these 2 guys parsed the highest is a joke. Do some real work if you wanted to be taken seriously.

[Havenchild]

People still talking about parsers not handling DoTs correctly in an argument about comparative DPS? Please walk away.

First off, if this was true, no equally geared SMNs both of equal skill could pull similar numbers because it would be just that buggy. If that was also true, no one could even come close to ranking a SMNs DPS and we can all assume them to be BEST Caster (despite the fact in-game numbers/ Agro Meter and battle log clearly show BLM roasting them) because there is 100% no way to accurately reflect SMN DPS on any medium according to some posters logic here.

So when a SMN does really well, like on something like T9, lemme guess, the numbers are inflated because now the parser is working correctly or if a SMN pulls 515 DPS while a BLM pulls 500 DPS we just assume the SMN did close to the monk at 550 DPS because the parse misread? This logic...
.
ACT, probably the best parser for this game now (been using it since beta), currently reflects accurate numbers to in-game DoT ticks (assuming you're up to date). Please chill with the misinformation. Most of this stuff has long since been corrected, least on ACT and people have been band-wagoning this statement since long ago as if this has never been fixed.

The only current bug, I am aware of is where if you cast a DoT, certain DoTs, they do not start the parse on their own 100% of the time and you have to attack once or auto attack to get the parse to read correctly.

[ViviAnimus]

Talking to him is talking to a brick wall. He is still under the illusion that he has actually given arguments and that I am repeating myself against him. You know why I must repeat myself, orange juice? Because you keep repeating the same shit without giving any arguments and apparently false information. I don't have to do the real work, you do. I am perfectly fine with ACT since it is a really good tool and gives us a good estimate. Might as well stop posting, you are only embarassing yourself. Actually answer to what I say instead of dribbling around it and making no sense.
What real evidence are you talking about? The fact that I acknowledge ACT has a minor fault percentage? That it's the only emperical evidence we have? What are you even talking about, orange juice?
Do you have a large sample for us to read, or the real math behind it? Please share your findings!

Also, it's not about only two guys. The spreadsheet for BLM and SMN is there for everyone to read, including yourself. I did say taking a DnT member as a good example of a SMN is legit. Are you going to say I am wrong for this? Just staph. I have spent too much time on people like you. I hope in the future SMN does get a damage buff or abilities that enable to class to perform on the same level as Black Mage. These people have their own agenda. People like Xisin, Orange Juice, Scarebearz are all main Black Mages and just have huge bias. There is no argument if the following is true:

Worse ST damage
Worse AoE damage
Worse overal damage
Worse resources
Utility that is good but pretty useless and therefore on par with BLM (or even inferior).

Then we hear fights aren't SMN friendly. This has also been debunked.
T10,11 and 13 are SMN friendly.
Then we hear parsers aren't correct, they are, just a small margin for error.

I think the debate is done. It's crystal clear SMN needs something more than this MP fix (which is pretty sweet).

[Kona_Nightwind]

My entire argument is you have not verified the legitimacy of your evidence on the fact that BLM numbers are that much better than SMN. Give me something anything of substance so I can prove you wrong or you can prove me wrong. So far all I've seen is some numbers from a parser that the designer himself won't verify its exact accuracy. The in game threat meter is a much more compelling argument, but there still isn't enough there. I mostly agreed on the MP issue, but didntnfeel a hot fix was really needed this close to an expansion. My favorite part was after the buff was all the complaints on it with out even testing it out. There is still conflicting numbers out there on what it has done. Maybe a week of Fcob will shed some light. Let's not jump to conclusions. Maybe you can present some stuff that is your own work, not other peoples. And theoretical DPS on a Patchwork fight is not enough proof. Organized large sample sizes with accurate parses of different fights is what is needed.

[Kona_Nightwind]

Even organized large sample sizes with ACT will work. Maybe you could put one together before the expansion