Can someone give me an in-depth explanation why Summoner is arguably the worst DPS?

[Kona_Nightwind]

I asked for a large sample size, not epeen lists. BLM mage being a proc based class allows for higher then average DPS scores, the class can't be judged by those top numbers. That a huge reason you need large sample sizes. To show where the classes really stand.

[Shizuna]

I asked for a large sample size, not epeen lists. BLM mage being a proc based class allows for higher then average DPS scores, the class can't be judged by those top numbers. That a huge reason you need large sample sizes. To show where the classes really stand.

How large of a sample size do you want? 50? 100? 200?

Obligatory ain'tnobodygottimeforthat.gif. I don't think we need that many, when people who have presented me and Puro their dps parse have been parsing themselves many times over and over again. And there is no way to get that many people when again you can't get the attention of that amount of people to do so. We use what we have now with the slightly moderate sample size we have. Unlike Vivi, I prefer using a range instead of saying that one person did this much cause each fights has so many variables on each turns:

1. The number of DPS that died at certain phases.
2. How fast adds are dying (this is very huge on SMN).
3. How many times you have to deal with certain mechanics (bad if your dots fell off at that time).
4. Mainly for SMN, did you ress and at what certain point?
5. How high your other DPS's are doing (it could be for the good or bad).
6. Does your BRD played another Foes Req in the middle or was it used for TP/MP?

I think ACT gets the job done right when it comes to tracking numbers. My static has been keeping track of their parse data for over 6 months on a spreadsheet and we have at least 3-4 people parsing. They all get around the same numbers. I don't think we're allowed to directly post parses/proof on forums, so if I wasn't so lazy, I would show you dot ticks and other numbers if I could and get someone else to show me theirs. But all of this is too much effort to just prove that SMN is doing lower than BLM. So since it takes too much work, I now care less if people think that is untrue, but at least, it is generally known for some other people.

[ViviAnimus]

Seriously dude. Are you actually being serious right now? It shows the high potentional of BLM, the DPS in the top 5 of every top BLM by the way, I get every week in coil. So it's not special. It is crystal clear to anyone who plays SMN and BLM like me that there is a significant difference and the pages confirm that. But I guess we need to find more random people, right? Also, the top BLM DPS page is inaccurate in the sense that I have seen higher parses. Although this might be true for SMN as well. The sample is fine. Both feature top tier end game DPS that push their classes to the limit. The numbers these BLM get can be achieved every week. The only number that is hard is Aikaal's 583 DPS which is 70 DPS higher than highest SMN. I see you are a very inexperienced BLM and probably even more so Summoner.
The pages are legit and a legit way of comparing the DPS. It doesn't represent exceptionally high BLM DPS in the sense that SMN can do the same. That DPS of a BLM fluctuates greatly is also a lie since I get the same numbers on my BLM week after week after week. Also, even if Procs made DPS fluctuate greatly, it still wouldn't be a good argument because still the potentional for a BLM is a lot greater than SMN. That needs to be fixed.

It's crystal clear to me that you don't want to be convinced. All I read are excuses and arguments that make no sense. I am sorry, but there is nothing else out there. But to for some reason dismiss this evidence is folly. The sample is enough because it consists out of people who know their class. It's basically a comparison between people who push their classes. Nothing wrong with it.

[Kona_Nightwind]

Its clear to me that you don't understand the class design of either class. The fact that you state a proc class shouldnt beable to have spiked DPS fights compared to a dot class is pretty glaring on your knowledge of mmo's.
Are these the top players with the top DPS marks. Or is it just another small sample size. Does every top tier BLM and SMN post there DPS. That's highly unlikely. And who says your equally good at both those class. I have no attachment to BLM. I've been playing the class at 50 for 6 weeks, am way less geared than you, have only been doing doing fcob for 4 weeks, and my numbers are barely below yours. I'm not that impressed.

[Kona_Nightwind]

I never said it wasn't true. All I said was it wasn't as bad as people were making it out to be. And since it wasnt so bad it didn't warrant a change 2 month away from an expansion. All I asked for was some good proof. The parses were close, near, or whatever tell me there is no good accuracy. And for a meaning full sample size let's start with at least 1000 for the size of the player base. And what do get for asking for such things? Some lunatic, who takes this game way to seriously, cussing and verbally attacking me. His hissy fit over this is really going prove his point to SE. Grow up and learn how present a point to a multi million doller organization. And if it makes you so mad you may need to step back and look at life priorities.

[Shizuna]

And for a meaning full sample size let's start with at least 1000 for the size of the player base. And what do get for asking for such things?

Yeah, ok, lol. That's a really unreasonable request. I don't have that kind of networking power to find 1k+ people so screw that and I don't think a lot of the casual-minded players even parse themselves and you also have to consider PS4 users into that too. I'm just better off ignoring you for the rest of the time you post cause you're asking for too much and no one in their right mind would waste their time doing that. People have lives, you know. You crazy.

[Odowla]

Yeah, ok, lol. That's a really unreasonable request. I don't have that kind of networking power to find 1k+ people so screw that and I don't think a lot of the casual-minded players even parse themselves and you also have to consider PS4 users into that too. I'm just better off ignoring you for the rest of the time you post cause you're asking for too much and no one in their right mind would waste their time doing that. People have lives, you know. You crazy.

you don't even need a sample size that large

look at the large end game guilds and progression guilds like DnT, CL and Lucrezia
how many summoners do they have? DnT I know has two.

TWO. Theres at least 4 more who swapped to blm.

[Kona_Nightwind]

Yeah, ok, lol. That's a really unreasonable request. I don't have that kind of networking power to find 1k+ people so screw that and I don't think a lot of the casual-minded players even parse themselves and you also have to consider PS4 users into that too. I'm just better off ignoring you for the rest of the time you post cause you're asking for too much and no one in their right mind would waste their time doing that. People have lives, you know. You crazy.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/7
Something like this would work. Don't need as many parses or be as complex. It may even help.

[Xisin]

This thread is moot. I doubt smn will be looked at until 3.0 now and at the point all classes are rebalanced. Vivi, give it more time (another week) before you start going hardcore again with the smn campaign. More data is needed to get the real value of the buff. The biggest flaw in puros chart is that you can fudge easily on it. Those who go in with an ilvl of 120-14 have the best odds due to how he rates and maths the stats. (he weighs ss at .25, det at .25 and crit at .25 - and rightfully so it'd be a lot of work to intrinsically place all values.) In other words melding a plat set + crafted set with pure ss values will yield high returns on ss (netting you a nice .12 increase per stat in damage on a stat that already towers to 1k in certain builds). The best way to win it in other words? crafted, not really bis.

At this point in the meta id actually rate raw dps as a better value either way. rather than calculated dps.

The parse bug im talking about isnt just 10ish. Now I'm not saying this is super common but it happens to two people i play with, the ACT parse will sometimes underestimate smn by a whopping 50-80 dps. Mine does this sometimes, others it doesn't, and I do not change settings between parses... Again not entirely sure why. Could be some setting on my side.

[scarebearz]

The biggest flaw in puros chart is that you can fudge easily on it.

This is true, when someone goes in with 2 Bards, the extra Foes is not calculated. ^_-