[dev1033] Class name changes -> Specialization/Talent Trees Into Classic FF Classes

[Cairdeas]

I just came back to say that this makes absolutely no sense. Seriously, look at my sig (which is outdated)... do I look like someone who is only going to play 2 classes? I'm someone who leveled 5-6 jobs to 75 when I played XI so this notion that I'm only doing this to be lazy... I don't even know where to begin.

I'm sorry but your "point" is... let's just say you should've thought that out better. Cause it doesn't refute mine nor have much to do with it.



Of course I am and I admit it. Not because I want to but because we have to. This mix-match, play what you like regardless of how good/bad it is, is whats killing the game. Current classes have no sense of self because in the end we're only leveling them to a certain point to get X skill/trait. As I said in the OP, find me 5-10 Lancers that you know personally who leveled it to 50, then I'll tell you 20-30 that leveled it just for Fleet of Foot (20).

Lastly, I'd just like to apologize for looking at these changes through the eyes of a min-maxer.

I do not see what the problem with that is, Its the same thing that happened in XI where people would level nin to 37 and quit as soon as they learned Utsusemi:Ni before the level cap raised.

[napalmninja]

I do not see what the problem with that is, Its the same thing that happened in XI where people would level nin to 37 and quit as soon as they learned Utsusemi:Ni before the level cap raised.

The problem with it, like Kuro said, is that these classes don't have a purpose to level outside of getting skill X.

So essentially yeah I can level all the classes, but eventually all my skills will mix together to form some ultimate class.

So you pretty much get rid of any WTM or BLM and you get a gray mage.

[Cairdeas]

The problem with it, like Kuro said, is that these classes don't have a purpose to level outside of getting skill X.

So essentially yeah I can level all the classes, but eventually all my skills will mix together to form some ultimate class.

So you pretty much get rid of any WTM or BLM and you get a gray mage.

Which Is why I suggested a system that implements Job Classes (What people keep asking for) in tandem with Weapon Classes (What we already have).

http://i56.tinypic.com/15h0jt1.png

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...t-Jobs-dev1033
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Class-Renaming

[Kurokikaze]

I do not see what the problem with that is, Its the same thing that happened in XI where people would level nin to 37 and quit as soon as they learned Utsusemi:Ni before the level cap raised.

Yes I agree, but the difference here is that NIN was actually a great job. LNC and the rest of the classes in this game are so bland/bad. They need to be able to stand on its own... and please don't say that "its so you can mix-match" - thats just grasping at straws. A class shouldn't need to pull from others to be good - I agree that it'll make them better, but it shouldn't be necessary.

Thank you Napalmninja.

[Seikninkuru]

Yes I agree, but the difference here is that NIN was actually a great job. LNC and the rest of the classes in this game are so bland/bad. They need to be able to stand on its own... and please don't say that "its so you can mix-match" - thats just grasping at straws. A class shouldn't need to pull from others to be good - I agree that it'll make them better, but it shouldn't be necessary.

Thank you Napalmninja.

If you [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.] treated the weapons as weapon skills rather than classes 99% of your complaints would be solved. Your refusal to adopt any system other than class = how you play is the root of your -perceived problem.

[Kurokikaze]

If you [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.] treated the weapons as weapon skills rather than classes 99% of your complaints would be solved. Your refusal to adopt any system other than class = how you play is the root of your -perceived problem.

If you [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.] realized that I have acknowledged that and responded with this question:

I have not heard a single concrete answer on what happens to any of us that have leveled one of the current classes to 50. Are you trying to tell me that all that progress/grinding was for a few abilities and that I should go level one of the new classes to perform

You will see what I mean. Go ahead. I'm waiting for that answer given your brief explanation.

[Chinook]

I have not heard a single concrete answer on what happens to any of us that have leveled one of the current classes to 50. Are you trying to tell me that all that progress/grinding was for a few abilities and that I should go level one of the new classes to perform

I know this question isn't directed at me, but why couldn't you make these new classes start at rank 50 instead of going back to rank 1 ? (that's what I tried to demonstrate in my post earlier, but I do not tend to be clear when I type in english)

Just have one of the "FFT style" class rank prerequisites at 50 from the actual class selection for these new "advanced" classes, and current progress wouldn't be a problem anymore.

[Seikninkuru]

If you [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.] realized that I have acknowledged that and responded with this question:


You will see what I mean. Go ahead. I'm waiting for that answer given your brief explanation.

Your tree system isn't what I have issue with it's the fact you cannot wrap your head around the weapons not being classes but merely the medium that you gain abilities through.

Why does a paladin have to be a class and not just a role I fulfill due to the coices in abilities and stats I make.

Instead of character uniqueness(which vanishes with the introduction of classes rather than barebones vehicles).

I understand your system, I disagree with it emphatically because I prefer to design a character and not level a class. Currently the game allows me to do that. I do not see in your system how it allows me to do that.

It's simply a job/sub job/advanced job system with talent trees(which isn't a BAD thing per se' just something I do not enjoy).

Sorry - to clarify further. Why should I have to unlock another job and then level that to gain specialization when i can just do that as is by mixing the skills giving to me(let's refer to classes as skills).

To clarify further - Why does there have to be some <insert class> here to get x ability anyway? Why not just have you do missions for an organization who wishes to train you in perhaps an extra ability or two(using leves and guildmarks)?

I know I seem hostile, I will try to be a bit more calm in the future.


I should be burned for how many times I've edited this post to add on to it.

If you removed the class names and levels, and just had it so after a certain amount of SP you gaine dyou unlocked abilities would that not be the same?> It should, that's how I view the system.

I know there are problems with the current abilities granted(many of them suck, some are just too good). I see the classes as skills. If you played ultima online take Gladiator as the sword skill. Eventually they added a few abilities to the skill, but originally you got nothing. Just because you had a sword didn't mean you were a tank, just a person who uses a sword. You could then mix this with parrying(which would be sentinel in ff14) to create a shield using 'tank'.

I want to preserve that feeling. The ability to create what I want. There are problems, so anyone willing to offer suggestions shouldnt be lambasted by someone like myself, but I disagree with it being as rigid as you suggest.

The way it is set up it seems to mimic the UO system with just more abilities granted over your skill level(100% in UO, and lvl 50 in FF14). I feel the current system offers more.

[Siatdiat]

Your tree system isn't what I have issue with it's the fact you cannot wrap your head around the weapons not being classes but merely the medium that you gain abilities through.

Why does a paladin have to be a class and not just a role I fulfill due to the coices in abilities and stats I make.

Ironically you can't wrap your head around Paladin or Dark Knight not being classes but instead a gladiator focusing on a role. Dark Knights and Gladiators will be able to use all abilities of lower levels under this system, which allows for a large amount of customization still, they just won't be able to use rank 50 Lancer abilities. Limitless customization is a bad, bad thing.

Instead of character uniqueness(which vanishes with the introduction of classes rather than barebones vehicles).

I have already explained this, in my previous post and now here.

I understand your system, I disagree with it emphatically because I prefer to design a character and not level a class. Currently the game allows me to do that. I do not see in your system how it allows me to do that.

Currently you can level all classes/jobs to 50 and then use all abilities from one class on another. The restrictions for doing so are very minor. If you are too mentally slow or too purposefully blind to understand why this is bad, I can't help you. I do however know the developers are not likely to entertain keeping a broken system that has been complained about loudly in forums, and pointed out by a majority of players in a poll.

It's simply a job/sub job/advanced job system with talent trees(which isn't a BAD thing per se' just something I do not enjoy).

Actually it isn't anymore or less of this proposed here than what it is currently. The only difference is that right now there is very little limit to what you can sub, as you can literally sub any skill you have learned on any job with little restriction or weakness in ability. In fact, as I have mentioned, a player can play a melee class, and then use all of another melee classes abilities with little restriction. This gives the classes no real identity at all.

Sorry - to clarify further. Why should I have to unlock another job and then level that to gain specialization when i can just do that as is by mixing the skills giving to me(let's refer to classes as skills).

I have answered this already once again. Can I geta little background on what you intend to do with the current system when you have leveled all classes to 50? I have no groundwork on where to start to critique this because although I am prepared to do so, it is hard to just randomly pick one concept of why this is so important to you just for you to let me know I'm barking up the wrong tree. SO, little kitten. Let me know what tree you reside in.

To clarify further - Why does there have to be some <insert class> here to get x ability anyway? Why not just have you do missions for an organization who wishes to train you in perhaps an extra ability or two(using leves and guildmarks)?

I find it quite humorous that you have proven to me that the current system isn't completely free and open ended, by suggesting a far worse and even more ridiculous concept for character advancement. Seemingly, people all have ADD now and can't make even the slightest commitment to a choice anymore.

I know I seem hostile, I will try to be a bit more calm in the future.

I probably seem hostile, guess I haven't dealt with enough terrible posters yet here to build up any tolerance.

[Seikninkuru]

Ironically you can't wrap your head around Paladin or Dark Knight not being classes but instead a gladiator focusing on a role. Dark Knights and Gladiators will be able to use all abilities of lower levels under this system, which allows for a large amount of customization still, they just won't be able to use rank 50 Lancer abilities. Limitless customization is a bad, bad thing.



I have already explained this, in my previous post and now here.



Currently you can level all classes/jobs to 50 and then use all abilities from one class on another. The restrictions for doing so are very minor. If you are too mentally slow or too purposefully blind to understand why this is bad, I can't help you. I do however know the developers are not likely to entertain keeping a broken system that has been complained about loudly in forums, and pointed out by a majority of players in a poll.



Actually it isn't anymore or less of this proposed here than what it is currently. The only difference is that right now there is very little limit to what you can sub, as you can literally sub any skill you have learned on any job with little restriction or weakness in ability. In fact, as I have mentioned, a player can play a melee class, and then use all of another melee classes abilities with little restriction. This gives the classes no real identity at all.




I have answered this already once again. Can I geta little background on what you intend to do with the current system when you have leveled all classes to 50? I have no groundwork on where to start to critique this because although I am prepared to do so, it is hard to just randomly pick one concept of why this is so important to you just for you to let me know I'm barking up the wrong tree. SO, little kitten. Let me know what tree you reside in.



I find it quite humorous that you have proven to me that the current system isn't completely free and open ended, by suggesting a far worse and even more ridiculous concept for character advancement. Seemingly, people all have ADD now and can't make even the slightest commitment to a choice anymore.



I probably seem hostile, guess I haven't dealt with enough terrible posters yet here to build up any tolerance.

I'll put it simply for you in big letters because apparently you're either a troll or a moron. Probably a mix of the both.


THERE ARE PROBLEMS WITH THE GAME MOST KNOW THIS. SCRAPPING SYSTEMS, ADDING RESTRICTIONS THAT FORCE YOU INTO X SETUP AND REMOVING THE ABILITY TO CREATE A CHARACTER BUT SIMPLY LEVELING A CLASS are not the answers. They are your narrow-minded stoneage answers.

Did you know there a re millions of people out there who thought final fantasy xi was a pile of shit? Crazy huh, you 500,000 can't figure that out can you?


Edit: Oh wise Siatit, I'd love to hear how it's any diff in a year or so when everyone has every CLASS leveled to 75 or 50 or 80 or 90 whatever the cap may be. Everyone can do everything. How terrible that will be.