Simplicity over complexity, time to change.

[Tupsi]

That's like saying that the world has stagnated because wheels have been round for hundreds of years.

On the other hand, if we went back to FFXI's standards, we'd get something worse than stagnation, we'd get regression.

Ironically enough XI has more depth to certain content systems and even WoW does...ARR kind of already regressed - People only see it "better than 1.0" more than anything because as an MMO in itself, it's nothing special, other MMOs have done similar systems better..especially in the itemization. Heck, the fact FFXI was an EQ Clone never crossed people minds as much as "x mmo is a WoW clone" because they had the creativity to at least do certain things differently, you know?

Point more was if you are still doing the content, you are having some fun in it.

I hope you love every day you go into work - as in having your dream job. Never once having to think: "aw man I gotta go to work instead of x" or "I wish x was different about my job."

[Gilthas]

Except that stuff also serves another purpose? You're so full of crap its not even funny. Re-examine my example, FFXI invested a lot of effort into making elements of the world feel realistic and alive and worldly. Removing things just because they take time can have a detrimental effect on that purpose and doing so is the opposite of an evolution imo. IF you insist that the two are not separate then WoW is the regression as it stripped away things that made mmos great and added in cheesy throwaway addiction forming content instead.

Oh really? What exactly made FFXI's world more alive and worldly?

The lack of fast transportation? Well it is true that if I had to walk it would take me an hour to reach the nearest city.

Big areas that are sparsely populated with actual content? Well, it is true that in some areas of my country you can go tens of miles without seeing any other soul.

See, saying that something is more realistic isn't the same as saying that it's better.

Or you know... it was built around a virtual world that people would explore and exist in. If the point was to play content longer, then FFXI wouldn't have airships, ferries, and the crag teleports, which barring the crags, make sense in a virtual world which would have some sort of transportation. The crags even were given a deep lore behind the reasoning for their existence, and were spread out enough that it let you move across the world without too much trouble, but still made players actually move through it like a person living in Vana'diel would have to. The old games were based on the roots of RPGs which was based on DnD, a game where you take the role of an adventurer in another world.

You say that FFXI wasn't designed around making you waste your time and then use the existence of airships and ferries as proof of that? You do remember that these ran on strict timetables, forcing you to wait for them? The teleports were also few and required you to level WHM if you wanted to do them yourself. Don't say that crags had lore behind them when Aetherytes also have it.

But above all else: there is absolutely nothing stopping you from travelling through areas in FFXIV (I personally don't use teleports), so why are you so intent on taking away teleports from everyone?

Ironically enough XI has more depth to certain content systems and even WoW does...ARR kind of already regressed - People only see it "better than 1.0" more than anything because as an MMO in itself, it's nothing special, other MMOs have done similar systems better..especially in the itemization. Heck, the fact FFXI was an EQ Clone never crossed people minds as much as "x mmo is a WoW clone" because they had the creativity to at least do certain things differently, you know?

FFXI has how many years now? Because I started playing FFXI with CoP and I certainly don't see where these claims of more depth come from. Most examples of depth are nothing more than clutter. People didn't call FFXI an EQ Clone because calling games clones wasn't a thing back then. The gaming community has changed a lot in the past 10 years. Back then we didn't have all the whining that we have today.

[odintius]

To be honest some free to play games have better stuff than ffxiv but thats my opinion.

[Felessan]

Heck, you can take the argument to the extreme, and just have the boss lose HP at a tick per second, strip our abilities, and keep the mechanics. It would be the same damn thing.

Yes, we already agree a bit on that it would be nice to have less strict rotations.
But you can't just switch party performance to passive HP drain, as "DPS check", "Heal checks" and "Tank performance check" are there for a reason.
It's naive assumption that everyone, even in Coil raiding group are equally good at their class. And this difference in skill is shown clearly in coil, just how fast and with how much efforts you'll be able to clear it.

I actually had the same feelings towards allowing you to repair gear on any class. Changing to my crafter to repair gear did bring me more immersion, but now that that restriction is gone I don't do it anymore. Do I miss it? Nope.

Actually... I never bothered to repair gear manually before the patch, and none of the crafters I know bothered too. It was just too much hassle (switching to like 4-5 jobs and go through piece by piece) for a little saving of money and some immersion in the process. Now everyone repairs gear by themselves and people even start asking about introducing "ask for repair" feature as a nice addition to game.

Instead of asking for cumbersome mechanics I'd rather they satisfy my needs for crafter immersion by giving us more quests.

It's actually felt that the feature just became really useful, and I agree that I like crafters to be more involved with the rest of the world.

this is a feedback thread, i want it to last and be helpful, and because of this, hateful posts like yours are not welcome here, post feedback or leave please

As you might not noticed, but I do post my feedback, it's just completely opposite of yours.
I don't want "realistic immersive world where elves lives", I play MMO for last 15 years and I am already a bit too old for escaping a reality. I want a *good* place where I can chat with people, do different stuff to spend time, raid for acomplishment. And I want it to be a *game*, a comfortable one that gives me a pleasure, and where you don't feel like being a leftover regardless how long you play - whether it 30 mins a day or 12 hours non-stop grind. Even if it will be a bit unnatural and "lifeless".

[Redemption]

Oh really? What exactly made FFXI's world more alive and worldly?

The lack of fast transportation? Well it is true that if I had to walk it would take me an hour to reach the nearest city.

Big areas that are sparsely populated with actual content? Well, it is true that in some areas of my country you can go tens of miles without seeing any other soul.

See, saying that something is more realistic isn't the same as saying that it's better.

I feel like it is pointless to keep trying to explain this to some people so i'll keep it simple and leave it at that. Things like that, travel, having a journey for things and worldly elements like consistency in travel and not just being able to jump instantly to whatever location you want and mob behavior patterns and weather affects that matter; things like that have a SUBTLE but important influence on how you perceive the game you play. You can like whatever you want and thats perfectly ok. FFXI did some things, and even though you dont like it, they had an affect and an intent that is completely different from modern mmos.

Let me ask you this, why are you so hell bent on insisting that FFXI is outdated and not simply a different perspective on the genre? So far as I can tell, its just because you don't understand why things were as they were or just don't care about it. If that's the case, please reconsider your approach to it entirely because you are never going to convince myself and probably some others that the things done in final fantasy xi are invalid today (as they just aren't, theres no reason I can't be living in a virtual world today outside of its lack of popularity).

[Gilthas]

Oh, but that's where you're wrong! I played FFXI for years and loved it until I finally burned out. And that's why I don't want FFXIV to be another FFXI.

I love it how you say things like "you don't understand why things were as they were". I do. They were like that to waste our time. Because teleports don't need to be removed from FFXIV for us to go out and immerse ourselves in it's world.

And that's the big problem with most of the claims for bringing back the stuff in FFXI, they're just stuff designed to waste our time, and that's why they're outdated because developers understood that what players want to do is to actually play a game, not waste a lot of time between the moments when they're actually playing.

[Magis]

You say that FFXI wasn't designed around making you waste your time and then use the existence of airships and ferries as proof of that? You do remember that these ran on strict timetables, forcing you to wait for them? The teleports were also few and required you to level WHM if you wanted to do them yourself. Don't say that crags had lore behind them when Aetherytes also have it.

Wow, almost like.... transportation would? Next you will tell me all shops aren't open 24/7.

On crags, it gives players utility and let's part of the world be run by the players (also the point of crafting). I didn't say teleports should 100% be gone (heck FFXI had em), rather that they should be used conservatively. The crags were the main focal point in two major expansion's story lines as oppose to atheryte having a small footnote somewhere on the lodestone. Also, even it's own lore is broken since Yoshi remove the anima system which would have been a nice compromise.

Well, as we have seen with Hunts, teleports are not in their vacuum, and have contributed heavily on breaking that portion of the game.

[ErBear]

Oh, but that's where you're wrong! I played FFXI for years and loved it until I finally burned out. And that's why I don't want FFXIV to be another FFXI.

I love it how you say things like "you don't understand why things were as they were". I do. They were like that to waste our time. Because teleports don't need to be removed from FFXIV for us to go out and immerse ourselves in it's world.

And that's the big problem with most of the claims for bringing back the stuff in FFXI, they're just stuff designed to waste our time, and that's why they're outdated because developers understood that what players want to do is to actually play a game, not waste a lot of time between the moments when they're actually playing.

1000 wow clones, 0 ffxi clones. Why in the heck would you want another WoW clone?

[Azurak]

I knew AoC, Tera, Aion, Rift were all going to die or become free to play after playing them for a few months. I haven't decided what will happen to XIV next year. I think it will die since Yoshi is against free to play.
XI lasted longer (still is, albeit it is totally different game now) than all the above as a subscription game (still is too). But XIV... its not made to be a long lasting game. So i quit the game since I dont want to invest in a game with no future. Why do I make these posts? Because I am bored and because I miss XIV 1.23 and what they did to this game!

ARR has nothing good:
1. the battle system sucks
2. it is all instanced
3. gear treadmill
4. doing same dungeons for gear treadmill; get new gear to do the old dungeon to get more gear
5. the world is small and instant teleports
6. the world is dead, the music in environment is bad (Mordhona is so annoying), there is no sense of being in the world

When people realize the above, subscriptions will dwindle.

[Felessan]

Things like that, travel, having a journey for things and worldly elements like consistency in travel and not just being able to jump instantly to whatever location you want and mob behavior patterns and weather affects that matter; things like that have a SUBTLE but important influence on how you perceive the game you play.

You know, I really like my character clothes become wet in the rain. It does creates immersion. FF14 has it, while FF11 has not (as well as WoW).
The point is that you can add immersion features without need to worsen accessibility/simplicity of "everyone" content. You just need to be more creative and look around to possibilities, without sticking "it was like so in ff11, so let make it the same in ff14"

1000 wow clones, 0 ffxi clones. Why in the heck would you want another WoW clone?

Maybe because WoW was partially FF11 clone?