The Monk Temple Reborn

[Rochedalaix]

Dragon kick is TECHNICALLY an 11% dmg buff (9/10 the blunt resistance = 10/9 the damage taken)

Even more depending on how many Monks are on your team...you guys should discuss it beforehand who keeps the Dragon kick buff up though.

[Lewena]

any answers to these questions plz? Would appreciate it <3

For ToD during a non-PB opener : http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2291802

For the use of CD (including Howling Fist) : it is a matter of personnal preference. The optimal way to use them depends on the duration of the fight which of course you don't know at the beginning. If using them soon allows you to use them once more (compared to using them only after GL3), it is then better ; otherwise it is the other way around. So... Do as you like, are used to...

[Cynric]

Delayed DK and ToD as suggested, and inserted Twin. Kept IR and BFB first (in this order to keep BFB in sync with Demolish later in the rotation), and howling and steel peak in one CD for the reasons I previously stated. Hopefuly the buffs are being applied on abilities on button press when the animation starts (like the gl refresh) and not at the end of animation, otherwise I'll have to modify it

http://youtu.be/egopF510-c8

Didn't see the whole thing, Blood for blood and internal release weren't used properly.

First off Internal release should be used after Blood for Blood not before, at least as a Monk. Second, you don't use them right at the start of your opener, you're wasting a lot of damage potential just to get demolish to tick a little stronger.

Finally doing it before the tank pulls is wasting time on those buffs. That's why you don't do that. In the time it takes to shoulder tackle even if your tank perfectly positions and gets aggro in 1 second. you've wasted 1 second on both buffs.

Pretty sure the optimal opener is already posted I don't really see what you're doing.

[Joeymtl]

In my case, IR is done before BFB to have it synced with demolish further down in the rotation. If you do it after, it will be late. I welcome you to try it yourself. It also enables me to have demolish reapplied a 2nd time in the opener with BFB still up.

I don't waste time doing them before tank pulls. I activate them during my 1 second window and shoulder tackle instantly as he aggros. It only demands good timing or communication.

You'd have 7 more seconds of gl3+IR, I could have another IR 7 seconds before you before the mob dies, who knows. Who would be wasting damage potential then? Either way it's a gamble. The traditional way will give you a higher peak between the 10 and 20 seconds mark, there is no question. I simply chose to have my buffs ready sooner down the line.

[Cynric]

snip

Shoulder Tackle still takes a second before you can start attacking again. Then you have to think about whether your tank has to properly position the mob and so forth. All that will deduct time from your actual uptime of those buffs. The way you do it is more effective for a burst situation where you'd kill the monster really fast, in a sustain situation I don't really see it working out as optimal. Basically you would start with more hate than a Monk that does it the normal way but the actual damage would fall off and they would pass you. Now I see you say "before the mob dies" I wouldn't use Perfect Balance on normal mobs to begin with unless speed running, in which case, Rockbreaker spam is far better than this for damage. Wasting perfect balance on normal mobs means it might not be up for the boss, which is a waste.

[Joeymtl]

By mob I didn't mean trash, of course I do lose a few milliseconds during the tackle travel however.

Aggro management is a valid concern though. Luckily I've not had tanks that couldn't handle it.

[Cynric]

snip

You'll lose a second or two depending on different variables. You aren't attacking the mob when you do your buffs which means it starts counting down from 20 > 19 , 15 > 14, Where if you did it in a normal situation the entire uptime would be spent hitting the mob. That's a DPS loss and a buff uptime loss. That's why we weave between GCD's and don't do them before we start fighting.

And in a non trash situation pretty sure the normal opener (Tackle,TOD, Demo, BFB, Snap, IR, Snap, TWSn, Peak, DK, HF) would put a damage gap between you once it's over with. It's just mathematically better. No buff time is wasted, DoT's get refreshed in proper time you might clip the final tick of Demo(Which isn't guaranteed to begin with) but that's it. There's a reason why we weave between GCDs to begin with. Having BFB and IR up at the end of the fight before me doesn't mean you'd do more damage.

[Joeymtl]

As I said, it demands timing, I never said it was easy or not risky. You have to know your tank and the range at which he will be able to take aggro.

Anyways, here is an opener with buffs applied after gl3 for the purists and howling and steel applied after dk and twin. You don't have to weave buffs in (at the cost of having to weave howling and steel though).

http://youtu.be/qar74VKi0i0

[Cynric]

snip

It's not about being purist, there's no reason to use your buffs when you aren't hitting anything other than to see the enmity list spike in your favor for a moment. But that doesn't mean you're doing more damage, it just means you increased the amount of hate you'd generate right off the bat. I also looked at the whole other video, and it's not even a risky opener it's just all around messy. You don't even bother to get GL3 first(DPS Loss, Auto Attack Loss). I just don't see the point of your other opener aside from a hate spike at the very start of the fight(using buffs before aggro is established does this) A gamble for more DPS would be something like doing a second true strike or bootshine and trying to edge out your buffs and debuffs to still be applied throughout or risking GL3 for Perfect Balance burst combos, those are gambles.

However all that being said, doing what works for you is still just fine as long as your damage is high in the end that's what matters. But there are a couple of general DPS guidelines that you have to understand the reason why we do them, not to insult you but to make you a better player.

GCD/OGCD Weaving - There are cases where a GCD is so long you can put two OGCDs in between them, For Monk however doing this inside perfect balance (like in your first video) Is wasting perfect balance time, every second of perfect balance is precious. OGCD's are weaved for burst damage and DPS of the fight to be high and due to the fact that doing a skill makes you finish the animation of the skill before another has to go through. It fits well and keeps your DPS high. If it weren't for the animation needing to finish we could just do buffs and cut off skill animations and it wouldn't matter, but for the most part we can't do that. So not weaving is usually a damage loss.

Timing buffs properly- Blood for Blood is 20 seconds, Internal release is 15 seconds, Naturally you'd want them both up at the same time for maximum damage, with as much GL3 time(monk) as possible, and to make sure you get every second and millisecond out while hitting the monsters. This is touch and go but Blood for Blood has a longer CD than IR, it also has a longer duration, making using it first a much better idea,(Dragoon uses IR first because it times properly for when they use life surge) IR is already going to cooldown first, you'll get a lot of use out of both. Of course Monk has a very big ramp up time, Your burst, sustain, and Auto Attack damage % all suffers when you don't get GL3 as soon as possible.

It's not about communication with the tank it's just not the right way to maximize DPS on any class we have.

Like I said I don't mean to insult you at all but, you need to understand there is a reason why we've been weaving for a year, why we've been using the opener we use (and getting 500+ DPS easily) The OP of this thread came from over 400 pages of another threads worth of questioning, math, and research, from many different players. Nothing has changed in a year other than an overall buff to monk. The point of this thread is to help Monks, that's why i'm telling you that your method isn't risky, it doesn't require coordination with the tank, it's not a gamble, it's just plain not the right way to access monk's high potential damage.

Edit: I just noticed I put Twsn before DK in the opener I posted that's my bad. DK is supposed to come before Twsn for the best damage scenario and buff sequence. It's not a huge difference, but it wouldn't be the optimal one if it was wrong lul.

[Joeymtl]

Well, I'd show you graphs and parses if it wasn't against the EULA. You can hit me up in game though, or you're welcome to try yourself At 0 TP, after 2 invigorates, the same damage is done with both openers. The only thing the traditional one gives me is a higher spike after 10 seconds. The one I posted gives a higher spike right away and I recoup later on. Same difference. Numbers speak for themselves.