Anyone Have Data on Block and Parry Percentage?

[PiedPiper]

Secondary stats aside the Onion Shield will have about 2% higher average mitigation compared to the other I90 shields. So probably ideal for lots of small trash. Either Holy or Allagan will be best on bosses where you negate spike damage with bulwark

How can we possibly know this unless we have any real idea of how block rate impacts total number of blocks.

Again, we need to know the actual percentage of attacks we will block.


Also, while those tables suggest that strength is the only factor in how much you parry, initial investigation has revealed that at about 40 more parry than my off tank, who is a warrior with more strength than me, I mitigate 24% of damage via parry while he only stops 21%, so I do believe parry rating impacts amount parried (and probably frequency of parry). [Note: I play master race, aka: Paladin)].

[Brodek]

I've been reading some of the stuff posted, but I have a question, how much parry is too much? Right now i got 507 (still working on gear) but I dont know if there is a soft cap on parry for coil, since that and the Ex primals are the main high end raids

[PiedPiper]

I've been reading some of the stuff posted, but I have a question, how much parry is too much? Right now i got 507 (still working on gear) but I dont know if there is a soft cap on parry for coil, since that and the Ex primals are the main high end raids

I do not think there is a soft cap on parry, as there doesn't seem to be a soft cap on any other stat. At 583 parry my parsed parry rate and the amount it says I parry for have continued to increase. The most available is near 620 or so I think, and I would assume it keeps giving returns.

Most people, including myself, have been told that parry rating only affects the amount of parries while strength determines how much you mitigate. Personal testing, however, has shown that increasing parry while strength remains the same has resulted in me parrying for more. At the base str of a i90 pld with 30 in vit and 583 parry rating, I mitigate 24% of damage.

Also, since the game has been shown to check parry before block, (ie it checks to see if you parry, if that check fails, then checks to block), I doubt a higher block rate shield would help much. As your gear improves your parry rate gets quite high. Accordingly, your combined parry + block mitigation rate is very high.

[Maelwys]

Most people, including myself, have been told that parry rating only affects the amount of parries while strength determines how much you mitigate. Personal testing, however, has shown that increasing parry while strength remains the same has resulted in me parrying for more. At the base str of a i90 pld with 30 in vit and 583 parry rating, I mitigate 24% of damage.

Also, since the game has been shown to check parry before block, (ie it checks to see if you parry, if that check fails, then checks to block), I doubt a higher block rate shield would help much. As your gear improves your parry rate gets quite high. Accordingly, your combined parry + block mitigation rate is very high.

Blocking happens BEFORE Parry.
As a PLD, Parry chance takes a noticeable backseat whenever you activate Bulwark.

As far as I am aware, the order is:
Special mechanics (i.e. "is cover in effect?" or "has the target broken line of sight?") -> Dodge -> Block -> Parry -> Defence and Resistances (including special types such as Hallowed Ground) -> Impact.

If bulwark is simply additive, as the tool tip suggests, you would have a block rate of 102% making it an extremely reliable cool down (in this case equal to rampart's mitigation). What if bulwark isn't additive, but rather if you miss the block chance gives you a second block chance at 60%? still strong, but not 100%.

Bulwark is a straight 1.6 multiplier to your Block Rate, not an additive buff.
If it was additive, it'd be a LOT more powerful, to the point where it'd nearly guarantee that you block every attack when you're using the Onion Shield.

I do hope someone answers your question as to block rate and parry rates.

The most reliable source of data for Block/Parry RATE testing that I've uncovered so far comes from a Guy on Reddit called Kestiel. The thread linked has stats on the Onion and Allagan/Holy shields, but he's also posted some other numbers in the past which largely tie in with what was previously posted by Ninjiitstu and Ruckus.

Basically, a good ballpark figure is ~25% Block chance for the Allagan/Holy shields and ~35% for the Onion.

[MythToken]

Thx for the info will check it out.

[PiedPiper]

First off, amazing reply chock full of info I was asking for. My love for you is eternal, much like my need to flash crowds to get get attention while wearing a tiara.

Blocking happens BEFORE Parry.
As a PLD, Parry chance takes a noticeable backseat whenever you activate Bulwark.

As far as I am aware, the order is:
Special mechanics (i.e. "is cover in effect?" or "has the target broken line of sight?") -> Dodge -> Block -> Parry -> Defence and Resistances (including special types such as Hallowed Ground) -> Impact.

Okay, last testing I had seen showed parry before block. Personally I have't noticed a decreasing parrying during bulwark, but I will investigate. I desperately hope it is block then parry as that makes much more sense for paladin.

Bulwark is a straight 1.6 multiplier to your Block Rate, not an additive buff.
If it was additive, it'd be a LOT more powerful, to the point where it'd nearly guarantee that you block every attack when you're using the Onion Shield.

If it is just a 1.6 multiplier, which I suppose the tool tip could suggest, it would be a very weak cool down. Like, even weaker than most people think it is. Using your provided number of 25% with holy shield, bulwark would only increase the block chance to 40% Anecdotally, I'd be amazed if it was this profoundly weak, especially since I very rarely fail to block during bulwark.

The most reliable source of data for Block/Parry RATE testing that I've uncovered so far comes from a Guy on Reddit called Kestiel. The thread linked has stats on the Onion and Allagan/Holy shields, but he's also posted some other numbers in the past which largely tie in with what was previously posted by Ninjiitstu and Ruckus.

Basically, a good ballpark figure is ~25% Block chance for the Allagan/Holy shields and ~35% for the Onion.

So excited to pour through all this. Cannot thank you enough.

[AugustusSB]

First off, amazing reply chock full of info I was asking for. My love for you is eternal, much like my need to flash crowds to get get attention while wearing a tiara.




Okay, last testing I had seen showed parry before block. Personally I have't noticed a decreasing parrying during bulwark, but I will investigate. I desperately hope it is block then parry as that makes much more sense for paladin.




If it is just a 1.6 multiplier, which I suppose the tool tip could suggest, it would be a very weak cool down. Like, even weaker than most people think it is. Using your provided number of 25% with holy shield, bulwark would only increase the block chance to 40% Anecdotally, I'd be amazed if it was this profoundly weak, especially since I very rarely fail to block during bulwark.





So excited to pour through all this. Cannot thank you enough.

<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

[Gamemako]

The most reliable source of data for Block/Parry RATE testing that I've uncovered so far comes from a Guy on Reddit called Kestiel. The thread linked has stats on the Onion and Allagan/Holy shields, but he's also posted some other numbers in the past which largely tie in with what was previously posted by Ninjiitstu and Ruckus.

I will have to do some testing to corroborate this, because I distrust his posting in general. He has repeatedly stated things like "dex follows clear 1% tiers of x", where x was 40-41, then 30-31, now 20-21 -- and the data is always in need of cleanup and can't be posted. The Bulwark testing makes me think he just made it up entirely. You would need to test for 29 straight hours to get the number of hits he has reported under Bulwark. Either way, I put no stock whatsoever in his posts.

[Maelwys]

I will have to do some testing to corroborate this, because I distrust his posting in general. He has repeatedly stated things like "dex follows clear 1% tiers of x", where x was 40-41, then 30-31, now 20-21 -- and the data is always in need of cleanup and can't be posted. The Bulwark testing makes me think he just made it up entirely. You would need to test for 29 straight hours to get the number of hits he has reported under Bulwark. Either way, I put no stock whatsoever in his posts.

If the past posts are to be believed there was at least three weeks worth of testing that went into it.

Frankly I'd like to see some of the raw data too... but there's a few mitigating (if circumstantial) factors that make me more inclined to take his posts at face value.

He's a moderator on the subreddit group in question (link - bottom right), the general tone of his past forum messages and More Detailed Reddit posts don't really suggest themselves to me as trollish. And he's at least been consistent in the claims about gathering data for testing.

I'm not sure where you're getting that "inconsistent Dex tier" thing from though.... All the past posts I've seen have been suggesting that there is a gain of ~1% chance when going from ~210 Dex to ~241 Dex - which would be 31 points of DEX. Indeed, I recall seeing him post that he "couldn't test lower" than 210 Dex without skewing the results by using inferior equipment. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

I'd not put too much faith in his "Parry formula" being exact, but ~0.076-0.078% rate increase per point is a decent ballpark figure, and the more testing we have that ties everything together the better. (So by all means if you're up for more testing I'd love to see the results!!)

That said, I'm also not a great fan of the Str/Dex tiering idea - I'm pretty much convinced that the Red Numbers you see popping up in the game are only integers due to rounding... (More STR + More Dex + More Parry = always better!) but it'd be nice to prove this once and for all. I wonder how many attacks there are in the game that do a 100% predictable amount of damage... "1000 needles" anyone? Maybe the next time I get a free weekend I'll try and do a test or five myself...

[Judge_Xero]

Honestly, I'd be willing to say that the Onion Shield is a viable contender for BiS because it's got the insanely high block rate: blocking more for less actually smooths out your incoming damage which makes you easier to heal. Even if you end up taking more damage over time, it'll be easier on the healers, which is what mitigation is all about anyways.

Was thinking that as well. I haven't played a round with any low Block shields to see if there is a floor on block damage % at lvl 50 but if there is then it could put the onion way ahead.