One to Fifty, One Zone - Long OP

[kurokawa]

People are kind of getting carried away here.

I can see them making adjustments to the camps and relevant guildleve levels... but redesigning the zones or anything to that effect is totally infeasible for SE.

Well if you're correct then they're screwed, as it'll take a major overhaul for people to come back and pay for the game.

They know this. They aren't stupid.

[Zanfire]

Well if you're correct then they're screwed, as it'll take a major overhaul for people to come back and pay for the game.

They know this. They aren't stupid.

If something major like that doesnt happen expect this game to barely skate by with minimal updates and support. id rather they just do what would get a good chunk of players to come back/ add to what small amounts we have and actually be a worthy numbered FF title.

Like ive said before, if your game is crap, the 3 big things to change that will always get a second look is 1) combat 2) class/advancement system and 3)the big one is a fresh world. If i was someone who tossed this game aside when it first launched, then saw a new pic a year later...with the same world (one of the biggest complaints) id instantly pass on it. But show me a new world and you got my initial attention. A new world/ layout is the biggest "second glance" catch for any game, visuals are what we see first, then we hear about the mechanics.

[Eekiki]

Well if you're correct then they're screwed, as it'll take a major overhaul for people to come back and pay for the game.

Unfortunately, I believe this is true.

[Neptune]

One problem with the direction this thread is headed is that it relies on the old sense of progression from FFXI, something that simply cannot exist in FFXIV because of its time saving features. I think most of you would be disappointed if the developers added every suggestion exactly as you want. You would find a memorable journey once, and then everyone would be teleporting everywhere just as they are doing now. I had a sense of wonder when I ran from Gridania all the way to La Noscea.

So the essence of what you are all asking for is a reason to see these different places on the map.. presumably because you won't go there unless your hand is forced? This is a two part problem. One, you players need to be more open to creating your own content. I have had the most fun in this game outside guildleves, but the rest of you are trapped in your own prisons so to speak. There is a wide game world there, go explore it, go join the player created activities, or create some yourselves. The second half is that you identify a true problem in the game design - that unless the game design forces everyone's hand, you can't count on your own free choices because you won't be able to fight the masses. Same reason people complained that nobody would party in somewhere other than Valkurm Dunes, even though they could. Same reason people complain about teleporting even though at any time they can choose not to teleport. They know that unless enough people are in the mix with them, they'll be alone with their wishes. I'd like to think there's a compromise here. What you're really asking for is a limiting of transportation, since the game already flows from camp to camp (whether redesigned or not). I don't think everyone needs to deal with that outcome so I wonder if people can't just form a linkshell and go grinding in creative spots? I guess I'm just trying to say, how much of your wishes could be fulfilled by yourself regardless of what the dev team does?

No one wants to level 1-50 in the same zone even if you can. This is a problem with the copy/pasta thing mainly. Wind would be taken out of the sails of this thread if Thanalan was truly 5 distinct areas with strong monsters separating each camp from lower camps. With the copy/pasta though there isn't much difference is there? I have skipped all over all 3 zones during my leveling and I've enjoyed the changes of scenery.

With that said I do believe in the reward of progression and support the OP. I'm not sure if this thread is headed in a direction that presents a sound argument.

[Mack]

Neptune I hear ya and I definitely don't want my hand forced in a certain direction but if leves were to stay central, I think if they balance them out across all crystals and all levels, they can still provide a variety in map design (which is the main topic here, not really the progression per se) and allow for a lot of choice. Now lets say leves were still a good option for gil and armor and whatever other prizes but were nerfed a little, but stayed balance, I think this would get people choosing different regions to explore to do both their leves in and perhaps grind if its the more viable option. I don't think it should necessarily go FFXI's route 100% but I remember countless times in XI where I didn't go with the "norm" since there was a limit really. When Valkurm was full to the brim I have had several parties in the dungeon in Peninsula for instance; of course the choices were a little limited or maybe people didn't explore alternatives often since people like to go with what works generally, I think FFXIV can remedy this by giving people balanced options.

[Duelle]

One problem with the direction this thread is headed is that it relies on the old sense of progression from FFXI, something that simply cannot exist in FFXIV because of its time saving features. I think most of you would be disappointed if the developers added every suggestion exactly as you want. You would find a memorable journey once, and then everyone would be teleporting everywhere just as they are doing now.

Good to see I'm not the only one who was thinking that while reading this thread. Not to mention XI isn't a great template to copy because the "direction" you progressed was determined by trends created by the players. Which, believe it or not, is exactly what happened in XIV. Instead of being starter city => Valkurm => Qufim => Kazham => Altepa and so on, its basically Thanalam camps due to everyone hanging around Ul'dah.

So the essence of what you are all asking for is a reason to see these different places on the map.. presumably because you won't go there unless your hand is forced? This is a two part problem. One, you players need to be more open to creating your own content. I have had the most fun in this game outside guildleves, but the rest of you are trapped in your own prisons so to speak. There is a wide game world there, go explore it, go join the player created activities, or create some yourselves.

The lack of story content to push you to those areas didn't help much.

Admittedly, this is a result of the whole sandboxy approach to design team Tanaka took. Sandbox "make your own content" is so niche its not even funny. FFXI did well to hide it through timesinks and all sorts of other things, but both games are scaringly similar in that way.

The second half is that you identify a true problem in the game design - that unless the game design forces everyone's hand, you can't count on your own free choices because you won't be able to fight the masses.

This is the reason why quest-based progression has caught on so well in modern design. You flow from one spot to the next with hints on where to go next once you're done with that area.

The problem is most of the people who jumped on here come either from games where your progression path is decided for you by the game itself (WoW, LotRO, CoH) or by the players (FFXI). The former has a slim chance of happening in a world where you have multiple classes to level (as much as I want it to become part of XIV), and the latter lacks the necessary amount of content to make it possible.

[Rowyne]

Admittedly, this is a result of the whole sandboxy approach to design team Tanaka took. Sandbox "make your own content" is so niche its not even funny.

This is the reason why quest-based progression has caught on so well in modern design. You flow from one spot to the next with hints on where to go next once you're done with that area.

The problem is most of the people who jumped on here come either from games where your progression path is decided for you by the game itself (WoW, LotRO, CoH) or by the players (FFXI). The former has a slim chance of happening in a world where you have multiple classes to level (as much as I want it to become part of XIV), and the latter lacks the necessary amount of content to make it possible.

Quest-based leveling has become the norm in many big MMOs. It's not only a clever way to hide the level grind (immersing you in story so you're hooked and want to see what happens next), but we become used to that kind of structure.

WoW tried to make their questing in Cataclysm a bit less linear. Usually, the tales of each zone were all woven into a bigger story. But this time, the quest lines would start and end within a zone, instead of using breadcrumbs to lead you where they wanted you to go. They gave people the choice, and instead of embracing the freedom, people complained that it felt disjointed (admittedly, I was one of those people).

Most people need that little nudge.

I'm right there with you, Duelle, I'd love to see this game embrace some real quest-based content. I understand that it can't completely incorporate quest-based leveling and make it viable in a multi-class system. But some would break up the leves and give lore-junkies like myself something we're desperately missing.

Again, I think SE is still trying to find that balance between linear storytelling (like FFXIII) and complete freedom (FFXIV). Too much of either keeps a game from living up to its potential.

If this game is truly intended to be a 'sandbox' environment, with little story and no direction, I don't see myself sticking it out much longer. Because this format just isn't working for me.

[Duelle]

Quest-based leveling has become the norm in many big MMOs. It's not only a clever way to hide the level grind (immersing you in story so you're hooked and want to see what happens next), but we become used to that kind of structure.

Personally, I liked that approach much better than L2's and XI's "camp somewhere and kill stuff to level". It also ties your growing stronger to the stories you see as you level.

WoW tried to make their questing in Cataclysm a bit less linear. Usually, the tales of each zone were all woven into a bigger story. But this time, the quest lines would start and end within a zone, instead of using breadcrumbs to lead you where they wanted you to go. They gave people the choice, and instead of embracing the freedom, people complained that it felt disjointed (admittedly, I was one of those people).

Guess I'll add that to the list of things they screwed up with Cata, then. I haven't played since sometime after ICC came out, since my work schedule utterly killed all of the time I had set aside for raiding.

Most people need that little nudge.

100% agree with you there.

If this game is truly intended to be a 'sandbox' environment, with little story and no direction, I don't see myself sticking it out much longer. Because this format just isn't working for me.

I'd say it was supposed to be sandbox under Tanaka. The way he and his team designed the game hints to that. Yoshida might have a different idea of how things should run, for all we know. The "damage" is still done, per se, seeing that there are obviously part of the game's core design that he's not going to be able to get rid of.

How does WoW not have a player defined progression path are you joking me?

Idk about CoH as I'm sure that 2 people have played it since it was released.

WoW's progression always involved a quest that directly sent you to the next quest hub. You start in Northshire, you get sent to Goldshire, you then get sent to run an errand to Stormwind where you find more quests, and then get ultimately sent to Westfall, then back to Stormwind to finish the thing with the Defias Brotherhood, then to the Redridge Mountains, then to Darkshire, and so on. I'll concede on one point and one point alone, that being that after Darkshire people started grinding in Scarlet Monastery for drops, even though that only applies to Alliance players as Alliance players have next to no quests that involve Scarlet Monastery.

CoH worked the same way. You got door missions from contacts and after you finished all their missions they would say "thank you for all your help. Here is the name of this guy/gal I know that could also use the help of a hero like you". Something you even got to choose one of several contacts to go to throughout various zones.

[Richard]

One problem with the direction this thread is headed is that it relies on the old sense of progression from FFXI, something that simply cannot exist in FFXIV because of its time saving features. I think most of you would be disappointed if the developers added every suggestion exactly as you want. You would find a memorable journey once, and then everyone would be teleporting everywhere just as they are doing now. I had a sense of wonder when I ran from Gridania all the way to La Noscea.

I don't understand why XI's sense of progression cannot exist in XIV. XI's sense of progression was not even a problem nor was it a feature that revolved around a huge amount of time. The time sinks were concentrated in a) waiting for a party and b) the endless xp grind (pre abyssea). SE is obviously going to keep the leve system which is great for casual players, much like FoV was in XI. How does re-making the environment so that it adds a sense of your character progressing through the world, gives it a feel of adventure, exhilaration and vibrancy - going to increase the time sink?

In XI we could outpost warp from area to area or teleport to certain ones and each had a loading screen involved. If we kept teleporting to new areas how would it be any different in XIV? It didn't ruin the diversity of zones in XI and it wouldn't ruin the diversity of zones in XIV (if they were redone).

I also feel that the anima system will be reworked once a mount system is introduced. SE wants to put more gil sinks in the game, a mount system is going to be one of them and they are going to want people to use the mounts over anima from traveling from area to area. They screwed up from the start with this though and now they're trying to fix it.

[Munba]

Found also this,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-m31...eature=related

Really nice. Can't wait to see that area in game, one day..