Paladin BiS Accessory Reddit Discussion

[Paikis]

idk, our first wins Turn1-4 were pretty easy and I had 418 VIT which is 5172HP out of party. people seriously overestimate what's required to have a comfortable buffer.

7.5k is more than enough hp for a Warrior to do Turns 1-4. I had 460 VIT when we killed turn 4 for the first time, and 451 on our first clear of Turns 1 and 2.

[TirionCrey]

idk, our first wins Turn1-4 were pretty easy and I had 418 VIT which is 5172HP out of party. people seriously overestimate what's required to have a comfortable buffer.

Comfortable buffer and doable are two different things IMO. 5172 out of PT, so around 5.3/4k in PT is okay. Still on unlucky RNG you could get two shot in Turn 4 and higher stack Caduceus. I personally would say 6kk health in PT and food buff is a really comfortable buffer. At that point I wouldn't worry about any dmg incoming. 5.3k is doable and okay, but I wouldn't be "comfortable" with that amount of HP in Coil.

[Jahaudant]

Going to steer clear of the actual subject discussion. Both sides appear set in their own way.

Maelwys, your HP calculation is a little off. Just for your information here's the formula followed by how it would apply to a Seawolf in full i90 eating HQ Toast...

BaseHP + (RacialVIT * 14.5) = HP
2214 + (23 * 14.5) = 2548


HP + (AdditionalVIT * 14.5) = TotalHP //Additional VIT comprises of allocated stats, gear, and food
2548 + (295 * 14.5) = 6825.5


TotalVIT * 0.03 then rounded down = PartyBonusVIT //TotalVIT is the absolute total seen on your character page before joining a party
532 * 0.03 = 15.96 = 15


(PartyBonusVIT * 14.5) + TotalHP = FinalHP
(15 * 14.5) + 6825.5 = 7043 Final HP



Also, as a final titbit of info. Once you are in full i90 and using this BiS set you can switch to using HQ Finger Sandwich for an additional 1 VIT giving you 7057 HP.

[Maelwys]

Going to steer clear of the actual subject discussion. Both sides appear set in their own way.

Maelwys, your HP calculation is a little off. Just for your information here's the formula followed by how it would apply to a Seawolf in full i90 eating HQ Toast...

BaseHP + (RacialVIT * 14.5) = HP
2214 + (23 * 14.5) = 2548

HP + (AdditionalVIT * 14.5) = TotalHP //Additional VIT comprises of allocated stats, gear, and food
2548 + (295 * 14.5) = 6825.5

With you so far, I get 532 Vit for this too.

TotalVIT * 0.03 then rounded down = PartyBonusVIT //TotalVIT is the absolute total seen on your character page before joining a party
532 * 0.03 = 15.96 = 15

So it's a straight Vit bonus rather than an HP multiplier?

Interesting. Party bonus is one of the few things I've not personally rigorously tested, and just took someone else's calculations for granted. Doh. That'll teach me...

Partied HP is actually going to always be slightly higher then.

Good catch! Shall update my spreadsheets accordingly...

So accounting for bad players. Ok, that's a good argument in my books.

Well... all I'll say is that certain players in the FC (and I'm naming no names!) occasionally have issues with "carefully watching their hate level and backing off when needed"...

[Leiron]

Can you perhaps link your spreadsheet in your siggy?
Would be very useful.

[Leiron]

I can understand where he got the idea.
Tomahawk scaled with dexterity at one point.
Its very easy to test as well given that GLA/MRD have no dex at all on their armor.

[Maelwys]

Well Tomahawk is virtually identical to Shield Lob (both tank ranged attacks, both earned at level 15, both similar potency and enmity modifiers, etc etc), and Ninjiitstu's testing (which I remember seeing from the old block/parry debates) was that it was affected by both Str AND Dex... ...which sort of makes sense to me - as a ranged attack it'd probably be flagged as Dex dependent by default in the code, but if it ONLY scaled off Dex then the potency value would indeed mean it'd be barely worth using on a Tank.

I'm running Coil tonight after work, but might be able to do a quick check afterwards with both a WAR and a PLD.
Shouldn't take it too long to narrow this down via experimenting with cheap Str and Dex rings and maybe a stat potion or two.

Even Flash, a magical attack, is based off of physical stats.

Yup. I'm pretty sure Flash (albeit a spell) functions just like a PBAoE melee attack with an "added effect" blind trait.
Testing confirms it has an underlying potency attribute that scales off Str and Attack power, it just doesn't do any damage to the mobs.

[Maelwys]

I'm running Coil tonight after work, but might be able to do a quick check afterwards with both a WAR and a PLD.
Shouldn't take it too long to narrow this down via experimenting with cheap Str and Dex rings and maybe a stat potion or two.

Testing on level 49 trash mobs confirmed that the damage output of both Tomahawk and Shield Lob are not measurably buffed by a High Potion of DEX + 25 Dex from gear at level 50. Meh. However, a High Potion of STR (by itself!) did raise both noticeably.

Moreover, Dual-stat gear such as Imperial Operative Wristlets (+6 STR and +6 DEX) and Electrum Rings (+5 STR and +5 Dex) didn't appear to raise their Damage output measureably over standard one-stat gear such as +5 Str Rubellite Rings.

I stand corrected

[Maelwys]

Since it's applicable to the above discussion, I'm bumping this thread to note that Patch 2.1 increased Tanking stance enmity gain substantially, to the point at which I'd now not recommend a Tank ever bother actively trying to get any more STR in order to "keep enmity better" in Defiance/Shield Oath. After running both Turn 2 (East route) and Turn 4 this week, in both cases, enmity gain was *ridiculously* faster and easier to hold compared to prior to the patch.

Additional STR/DEX really now boils down to: 1) Increased Block and Parry Chance/Strength and 2) Extra raw DPS.

The first point is (as seen in the dozens of posts above) of debatable usefulness by itself. At best it gains a PLD an average of a little over ~1% extra damage mitigation over time (applies only to blockable damage) at the cost of a little over ~5% Maximum HP, and is a net loss in "eHP". The second point is no longer of any significance where hate generation is concerned, and you aren't going to be contributing a large chunk of your party's damage output unless your party is either very small or very bad.

Basically going Gryphonskin may reduce your fight time a tiny bit, but it won't help you Tank noticeably better now (and plenty would argue that it never did!)

TL;DR:
+ Go VIT, then MORE VIT, then EVEN MORE VIT for Tanking any content worth talking about.
+ Keep a Melded Gryphonskin set around if you have far too much gil and are a dedicated Off Tank and/or want to steamroll trash content faster.

[Jahaudant]

Semi related note, I'm pretty sure they accidentally added an enmity modifier to Sword Oath.

It's even easier to rip threat when I'm off tanking than it was before, likewise for my teams second PLD when I'm main.