Letter from the Producer LIVE Part X: Will the netcode issue be honestly addressed?

[MageBlack]

There are still less threads about this than about adding features from FFXI, or how great FFXI was... and at least thread about this is at least slightly different. This one focuses on the Live Letter coming out, the other two focus on the problem itself (though the first was often mistaken for an endgame discussion/QQ, prompting my thread).

Honestly, the majority of people have been awesome about posting into relative threads as opposed to starting new ones... and we don't know they know it's an issue because they haven't said so. I would rather see threads about this (because it has been, and likely will be a game-breaker) than repeated threads complaining about tanks/explaining tanks, complaining about the community, boasting about FFXI, or adding fluff features.

Sorry, wasnt trying to dismiss the issue people are legitimately having. I respect that you would like a response but I see a LOT of assumptions and accusations being tossed around by all the people posting in these threads. Such as "They havent responded to our posts so they are ignoring/dont know/dont care the issue exists." "The issue is in 'X' thing"

In past experiences from this dev team over the last 2-3 years I have come to notice that they do not like to post unless they have some concrete information. They dont want to give half ass'ed responses that could be wrong. They want to give accurate assessments of the situations they are commenting on. I also know they do have people who read almost every post on the forums and report it to the appropriate teams.

Like you and others are so proud to point out, you have two well maintained threads (kudos) full of information and testimony and many, many responses and likes. I can guarantee you, they have seen it by now. I posted in one of these before that with as many different configurations of software and hardware out there for PC's as there are people playing the game, it can be a witch hunt trying to find out exactly what the problem is. I work in IT for a school district, while its a completely different ball game I have come to discover no issue is as simple as people might think it is. It could be something like an apostrophe in the wrong place in a single line of code, needle in a haystack much? Not to mention that the issue is not a universal one. Not everyone experiences the problem. If it was a global issue, it might be easier to determine.

Has a link to these threads been posted in any of the Questions for the Live Letter official posts? If so, please link cause I think that would be the best place for it and I will throw my like in the ring, as I have for the OP's of the other threads. Best of luck and I do hope the issue gets resolved, I appreciate the ones commenting about it with cool heads instead of heated accusations about how incompetent and stupid the devs are.

[Alcyon_Densetsu]

Has a link to these threads been posted in any of the Questions for the Live Letter official posts? If so, please link cause I think that would be the best place for it and I will throw my like in the ring, as I have for the OP's of the other threads.

I think it's a good idea.

I have skimmed through the Thread: "Ask Questions for Letter from the Producer LIVE Part X! (General Questions)" and found 8 posts asking specifically about the responsiveness/netcode/delay/AoE dodging issue. Unsurprisingly, the earlier ones gathered more "Likes" than the later ones.

I will add links to these questions in the OP of this thread. Here they are, for reference:

➜ Post #40 (41 Likes at the time of this writing)

Are you planning to do anything to address the incredible unresponsiveness & discrepancies between what players see on their screens and what actually happens that plagues the entire game? Why is this the only MMO on the market where spells can complete casting while you're on auto-run, and where you can be out of the red zone for an AOE for almost an entire second and still get hit?

➜ Post #57 (31 Likes)

Currently, many players are getting hit bye AOE effects when they have moved out of the red zone before the spell finishes casting. Are there any plans to address this, or is it a game design choice?

➜ Post #42 (23 Likes)

With PvP and new raid content coming in 2.1, one major concern with the game currently is the client-server responsiveness regarding player positioning. It is extremely difficult at times to avoid ground based boss abilities without the use of third party programs to change the routing process to the game servers or using applications to read in game log events and provide sound effects to help players react faster.

How do you plan to approach this problem?

➜ Post #246 (20 Likes)

There have been a lot of posts in the general forums recently regarding issues with the netcode.

Players have found that combat could use some tweaking in the following areas:

Dodging AoE: http://youtu.be/hg33BjzwLWw

Unresponsiveness in the activating ability system: http://youtu.be/ripyJWGWNIo?t=11s


Many of the encounters in FFXIV require fast reaction times or a lot of prediction on the players part to succeed.
Do you have any plans to either:
1. Review the current battle system to allow players to feel more in control of their actions?
2. Review the current battle system so that players won't require such fast reaction time or constant prediction to succeed?

➜ Post #89 (13 Likes)

Are there any plans to address the horrendous positioning check delay that causes no end of players no end of frustration, particularly in a game that primarily focuses on avoiding AoE ground effects?

5 MMOs with endgame experience and I've never seen one this bad (SWTOR came close but they fixed it quickly).

➜ Post #124 (9 Likes)

i keep seeing this issue being dodged but is anything being done about the net code? people are still getting hit by things they shouldn't just like in closed beta

➜ Post #319 (7 Likes)

Is there any plan, acknowledgement, theory crafting... anything at all being done to address in game latency? I believe most players would like WYSWYG (What you see is what you get.) gameplay, and FFXIV ARR is too far off the mark.

➜ Post #186 (4 Likes)

Why do I still have times when the game becomes unresponsive and lags? I play on an NA server and live on the east coast.

I think it's not my place to say which of those should be preferred, however there's a common theme which can be synthesised in the following points:

• There seems to be a delay between what players see on their screens and what's really happening (being confirmed) server-side: WYSI NOT WYG (What You See Is NOT What You Get).
• Players sometimes get hit by AoE's whereas they see themselves out the red area before the enemy's cast completes.
• There is a general unresponsiveness in the game (delay in display, delay in taking players' inputs into account) for a number of elements, including but not limited to: position change, performing an action, cast interrupting, UI confirmation of player input. Regardless of whether the observed subject is a PC (Playing Character, human) or NPC (Non-Playing Character).

I would encourage the authors of all these questions to link to some of the most-liked ones in their post, so as to show this is the same issue being questioned, albeit with a different wording. That would probably help unify our concern, to make sure SE sees them as a whole.

For your convenience, here's a copy/paste material referencing the 5 most-liked questions.
(simply hit "reply with quote" under my post, copy the following, cancel, then paste it in your post)

※ This question is in relation to Post #40, Post #57, Post #42, Post #246, Post #89. ※

[Bixby]

For your convenience, here's a copy/paste material referencing the 5 most-liked questions.
(simply hit "reply with quote" under my post, copy the following, cancel, then paste it in your post)

Done.

I tried to keep my question(s) simple and direct, and hopefully clearly aimed toward the underlying problem instead of specific symptoms. To me, as you said, the basic problem is that WYSI NOT WYG. I understand why (there's too much reliance on the server for checks and calculations the client could perform), but at the end of the day, I don't care why. You simply can not count on what's displayed on your screen to reflect the actual state/order/outcome of events. Clear, decisive input isn't recognized until it's displayed, and even then, that same discrepancy between what you see and what is actually going to happen adds another layer of uncertainty.

It adds up to an incredibly grating, frustrating, unsatisfying experience. We're doing something every 2.5 seconds at the slowest, and every single one of those interactions could end up not behaving the way we expect at any time.

[Mandze]

Please address this issue. I'm staring level 50 in the face and I'm not sure that I'll be able to continue playing, since being unable to dodge AoEs isn't going to fly in endgame. Turns out the game isn't much fun when you get hit by every attack even when you see yourself as outside the red zone well before it fades. It isn't okay. I feel like I can't run anything for fear of making other people wipe.

This sort of slow stuff on the server side was fine in FFXI because the general mechanic in FFXI was "get in a good spot and stay there so the bard can hit you with the dang songs, kthnx." You can't make a game that expects quick responses and dodging from players and then build extra lag into the system on top of the lag that is always going to be there in online play and expect the players to be okay with that.

[Alcyon_Densetsu]

Also, please let me know if there are mistakes (spelling, grammar, style…) in my OP, guys.

English is not my first language (I just happen to love it).
Any criticism/lesson will humbly be taken into account.

[DaiLyght]

someone get jp ppl to complain so that se notices since they only thing we are good for is our monthly fee

[DooDooBrown]

Mayhaps the N.America servers are substandard quality and JP servers are better and the JP players have no such issues to complain about..

[Sunarie]

Mayhaps the N.America servers are substandard quality and JP servers are better and the JP players have no such issues to complain about..

Actually, others who can read the language report similar threads in the Japanese forums. So, they too get the issue.

No, I don't see how this would ever be addressed because it's not a problem...

Don't people find the instant skill lockouts for animations far worse? Nothing is better than casting a Lustrate and watching it go off after the tank is dead!

I'm not sure who exactly you are replying to, but the fact that zero other MMOs have the issue where you can be out of an aoe and still get hit, coupled with strats being developed around having to memorize skills and pre-move because you can't rely on screen indicators, a 150+ page thread, another 40+, the issue helping to kill 1.0, and an accepted bug in the accepted bugs forum. I would say that it's safe to see this as a problem.

As far as skill lockouts for animations go? That has been stated as working as intended, annoying as it is. SE has at least come out and said "no, we want it to be that way and you guys need to adjust your strategies based on that."

[coffeepotz]

Actually, others who can read the language report similar threads in the Japanese forums. So, they too get the issue.

Could you or someone else provide proof (quotes perhaps)? Not that I don't believe you, but it would add substance to your claim.

[Sunarie]

Could you or someone else provide proof (quotes perhaps)? Not that I don't believe you, but it would add substance to your claim.

Although I am not going to dig through 200ish pages to find the link to the thread, it's been noted in both the 150+ page thread on the issue here:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-fix-something.

And the 40+ thread here (If I remember correctly this one didn't have a link to the post, just someone mentioning it existed, you may be able to send them a message asking):
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ev-Response%29

The issue also has been mentioned as brought up in the French forums, not just the Japanese. As far as direct translations for any links go, you'll have to get others to do that. I fully believe it's an issue though. It has to do with the way the game was programmed, and everyone gets it. At minimum, you get a .1 second delay with a great connection. That's according to Yoshi, from a letter when they reduced the update delay to .3 seconds going from beta phase 3 to phase 4, and the last we've heard on the issue. From there the delay just gets worse.. unlike every other MMO on the market with accounts for 50ms ping variations, and network degradation (which happens naturally when you use the internet). So, it's really not hard to see how people everywhere would get the issue.