Regarding Endgame DF and Tank Design

[Kantide]

This will be irrelevant as soon as we have more job diversity.

[Keneblerz]

Make Paladins heal, then. Or else you'll still have the same problem if you get a group with two Paladins.
Using Sword Oath to attack as Paladin doesn't work, as you'll steal aggro from the main tank.

This is only true if:

1. The main tanks weapon is worse than the Off tank.
2. The tank hasnt started his rotation.

To give you an idea. I fought garuda (HM) as an Off tank Paladin. If i go balls to wall with Sword Oath. I'll grab aggro almost immediately. If i wait for the MT's 2nd or 3rd rotation. i dont put a single dent into the target's emnity. It stays blue for the rest of the fight. Unless i use provoke like a noob :P

Edit: The above will happen for PLD + WAR combinations as well.

[Gamemako]

Also, I'm assuming that there's overgear when none exist? Are you saying that Relic + 1, ilvl90 gear isn't being overgeared for Titan HM?

If you think anyone described in that thread had a relic+1, then you can't read. Each one of them in the party was there because they couldn't get PUGs to take them so they could finish the relic quest.

Also, I don't have the math to back it up, but I really doubt Wars only do 7-9% less dps than a dps geared DRG who knows what he is doing, while you are geared for tanking. Gearing for dps as a tank, imo, defeats the purpose of having the DF allow 2 tanks into the queue.

Try Valk's calculator. At 350 strength and 250 determination for WAR, a DRG will deal 7.45% more damage per potency due to passive +32 strength advantage. Both have 10% vulnerability (SE for WAR, Disembowel for DRG) and 20% damage (Maim for WAR, HT for DRG) boosts. The only differences are abilities (Berserk vs. Blood for Blood) and weaponskill potencies. If you compare main damage combo, you're looking at 880 for WAR versus 900 for DRG after accounting for autoattack influence (100 potency per 3 seconds). That's a 2.3% difference there. DRG also has more powerful and frequent interrupt (if it can be used), better DoT (290/18s for Phlebotemize, 300/30s for Fracture), better secondary combo (760 potency on Chaos Thrust combo, 610 on Storm's Eye combo), et cetera, but the difference is small, especially after accounting for autoattacks. Base stat (namely, STR) boosts are identical on armors and weapon between the two jobs.

Furthermore, there is certainly no problem with WAR, who already rolls VIT-melded DPS accessories (Gryphonskin Ring/Neck + VIT + Battledance) or STR-melded tank accessories (Rose Gold Wristlets + STR) since STR is also mitigation. The only real question at all is where people put the bonus points, and given the abundance of seals, I don't think it much matters.

why is there so much misinformation about sword oath? sword oath adds an additional auto attack with 50 potency your normal auto attack has a potency of 75. also i believe it gives enmity equal to double the damage you would of dealt.

It does not directly affect enmity, but otherwise roughly correct. AA Potency is normalized to 100 per 3 seconds, so a weapon with an attack delay of 2.32 (Curtana) is 77.3 potency per attack. Based on P3 testing, Sword Oath adds a flat potency boost, raising it to 127.3 potency per autoattack. They might have changed it to a normalized boost (150 per 3 seconds instead of 100*delay/3 + 50 per attack).

To give you an idea. In my FC we have 2 paladins. When i off tank. If i go balls to wall with Sword Oath. I'll grab aggro almost immediately. If i wait for the MT's 2nd or 3rd rotation. i dont put a single dent into the target's emnity.

Right. Both are a net enmity increase, but Shield Oath is a larger enmity increase (multiplier on total enmity; I've seen it theorized to be 50% before damage reduction or 20% after, but I haven't tested myself -- P3 modifier of double enmity is no longer true) than Sword Oath (damage-based enmity only, maybe 5-10% increase in total enmity depending on how much you're using RoH).

[ErikMynhier]

I find Sword Oath to not be that great of a skill. In fact, the effects of it are quite insignificant (+50 to auto-attack potency, in a class where damage is low to begin with), that it's really no different than running without an Oath skill turned on.

He's right, Sword Oath is only good for overworld solo content. I was screamed at in a dungeon once just for hitting it accidentally because its right next to Shield Oath on my bar.

[Chocob0charmer]

Sword oath is actually really good once you get relic shield +1.

Since you're never out of oath, you can count the lack of shield oath 20% dmg done nerf as a 20% dmg done buff in sword. Also when you're fighting a single target, the enmity bonus from shield oath isn't that strong since you're holding hate primarily from your skill combo.

Also really good for clearing trash as long as you know how to hold hate without relying on flash

-20% dmg taken is needed in coil/titan/some bosses, but when you have 6200 hp and a relic healer, you're not going down to trash sub bosses

[Amyas]

I would much rather just be the tank I should be! and leave my DPS to my DPS jobs.

Why? I like being able to solo down Demon Wall from over an inch of health when everyone else is dead/knocked off :3