Job change cooldown, why is there?

^ Title.

Why is everything placed on cooldown when we jobchange? I played a bit in 1.0 and realize it could have been used more prominently in 1.0 to safetynet yourself in certain situations, and I *think* you could change in combat.

However, here, you can't change in instances, in any scenario. You can't change in combat. When you do, have to wait on hp and mp to regen.

A great example... if I'm mining and see a corpse and feel like being a nice guy, why must I stand around for 45 seconds or so, to cast raise, and then switch back to my miner and wait for cd's to reset (not to mention gathering-points).

I agree with this. I've been in the same situation as you waiting to raise a person.

I here agree if I'm mining and a fate pops near me I usually switch so I can do it but I have to wait for my skills to reset and the reset is longer that the gcd

Because it would be abused in other ways. E.g...

If I was a level 50 conjurer and a level 50 black mage, I could get 4 other people like me and go in a dungeon. We could all go blm and aoe like mad, then one of us change jobs and heal, then change back and dps more. I mean imagine binding coil if you could be a whm on one fight and switch to a tank on the next fight, etc etc.

Even in open world, I could tank a fate solo, dps it solo, and heal it solo all at the same time.

Be thankful it's not FFXI. In Ffxi you had to go to your mog house and tell your moogle to change your job, you couldn't do it in the field at all.

All this is, is the same concept, but with open world freedom using a cooldown to prevent the leverage.

So imo,

Battle Class -> Battle Class = Cooldown
Battle Class -> Hol = No Cooldown
Hol -> Battle Class = No Cooldown

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Originally Posted by Ryios

Because it would be abused in other ways. E.g...

If I was a level 50 conjurer and a level 50 black mage, I could get 4 other people like me and go in a dungeon. We could all go blm and aoe like mad, then one of us change jobs and heal, then change back and dps more. I mean imagine binding coil if you could be a whm on one fight and switch to a tank on the next fight, etc etc.

Even in open world, I could tank a fate solo, dps it solo, and heal it solo all at the same time.

Be thankful it's not FFXI. In Ffxi you had to go to your mog house and tell your moogle to change your job, you couldn't do it in the field at all.

All this is, is the same concept, but with open world freedom using a cooldown to prevent the leverage.

So imo,

Battle Class -> Battle Class = Cooldown
Battle Class -> Hol = No Cooldown
Hol -> Battle Class = No Cooldown

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I don't think you can change jobs in a dungeon or during combat.

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Originally Posted by AmalahRose

I don't think you can change jobs in a dungeon or during combat.

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And leave that part just let us switch jobs on the fly also keep it when you switch to gathering jobs you start with 0 go so as that is not abused either

Too much abuse potential, especially when the cooldown can be worked around by being in town when you switch. Which will *not* trigger the cooldown.

I wonder if that same cooldown immunity could be extended to rest areas like camps, too.

Everyone keeps saying "So it's not abused" about everything! people even suggested adding a cool down on Fantasias so they can't be abused, wtf?

Since we already can't change classes in dungeons or in combat which is great cause I've played a game where you could change classes in dungeons and boy was it awful. How on earth could removing the cool down be abused? 'Specially in a situation like going from a gathering class to a combat class. If you aren't in a party or anything and you're just soloing I just cant see how it can be abused. Maybe I'm stupid =T

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Originally Posted by Steeled

^ Title.

Why is everything placed on cooldown when we jobchange? I played a bit in 1.0 and realize it could have been used more prominently in 1.0 to safetynet yourself in certain situations, and I *think* you could change in combat.

However, here, you can't change in instances, in any scenario. You can't change in combat. When you do, have to wait on hp and mp to regen.

A great example... if I'm mining and see a corpse and feel like being a nice guy, why must I stand around for 45 seconds or so, to cast raise, and then switch back to my miner and wait for cd's to reset (not to mention gathering-points).

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If you are in Ul'dah, Gridania, or Limsa Lominsa, when you switch jobs none of your skills are on cooldown.

When you switch jobs, you switch gear. In some cases, you switch Job crystals, which have stats on them (you can't see). This means your HP and MPO can fluctuate, and the system has to use your natural HP/MP regen to refill. If you are switching from a higher-HP/MP class to a lower one, non regen occurs, as there is no excess to fill.

Not being able to change in combat, nor in dungeons, forces you to fight or flee depending on your need. This helps close a loophole whereby a player can attempt to farm mobs by burning down at higher level, then switching to a lower-level class and applying that kill without earning it as that class. Not trolling in dungeons by switching classes also helps, but this has been true for many other MMOs that had "jobs" and "specs." In FFXI, you had to return to your city to change Jobs, while in WoW you could only change specs outside of combat, but it permitted some flexibility in play. FFXIV is more canalized to its need to force party cohesion and forethought. That is, you have to commit to a Job when in a Duty. You are still permitted to switch gear as long as you can wear it as that class/level.

As for "being the nice guy," if you talked to "that corpse" first, then it's likely he'll wait. You're not in a rush, are you? If you were, why'd you wait? Do you want appreciation other than a "thanks" and a bow from the other guy? Doing a helpful task, or attempting to do so, should be its own reward.

Out of combat rez abilities, after you have unlocked them, should be available whatever your active class is.

Matter of convenience.

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Originally Posted by JPPILIP

And leave that part just let us switch jobs on the fly also keep it when you switch to gathering jobs you start with 0 go so as that is not abused either

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For this, they could just get it to where your gp amount is remembered when you switch.

I also brought all this up in beta, mainly because when you are out gathering and a fate pops up you wanna participate in, you are forced to wait for that sensless cooldown to start getting any real contribution. And when you switch back to gatherer you are equally senselessly back to 0 gp instead of it just remembering how much yoy had at the time of switching.

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Originally Posted by Nipa

Out of combat rez abilities, after you have unlocked them, should be available whatever your active class is.

Matter of convenience.

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Just equip it through your cross class traits. Easy enough.

I guess the tiny abuse you could see from this system is if the cooldowns are not tracked so you could swap back and forth to your job to instantly reset your 1+ min recast abilities to use it every fight.

In my opinion though, most of those 1+ min abilities aren't that awesome that they need a 1+ min delay.

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Originally Posted by Rhas

Just equip it through your cross class traits. Easy enough.

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Gatherers and Crafters can't equip DoM/DoW abilities.

Many jobs can't equip a raise.

Some of the jobs that can might not want to for better use in combat-worthy abilities.

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Originally Posted by Balaur

If you are in Ul'dah, Gridania, or Limsa Lominsa, when you switch jobs none of your skills are on cooldown.

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Yes, I know about this, and when you join a Duty, it resets most (all?) of your cooldowns to 0. However, this has nothing to do with the inconvenience that I can't just switch, wait on mp/hp regen, and get to what I want to do.

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Not being able to change in combat, nor in dungeons, forces you to fight or flee depending on your need. This helps close a loophole whereby a player can attempt to farm mobs by burning down at higher level, then switching to a lower-level class and applying that kill without earning it as that class. Not trolling in dungeons by switching classes also helps, but this has been true for many other MMOs that had "jobs" and "specs." In FFXI, you had to return to your city to change Jobs, while in WoW you could only change specs outside of combat, but it permitted some flexibility in play. FFXIV is more canalized to its need to force party cohesion and forethought. That is, you have to commit to a Job when in a Duty. You are still permitted to switch gear as long as you can wear it as that class/level.

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Oh god. As an avid FFXI player of 8 years, Aegis and Ochain, just because it was worse in XI doesn't make the current state excusable.

I'm not asking to change jobs in a dungeon or in combat or anything like that. Nothing of the sort. I'm asking for if I'm running along and want to switch jobs, why can't I? It's just me solo, or screwing around between fates. If I'm bored between fates and want to mine some nodes, why must I wait a minute?

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As for "being the nice guy," if you talked to "that corpse" first, then it's likely he'll wait. You're not in a rush, are you?

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Maybe I am? So what. Maybe I still know how much it sucks to lay their dead when 40 people went on to the next fate, and even though I wish I could instantly cast raise, I'll still wait it out.

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Originally Posted by Ryios

Because it would be abused in other ways. E.g...

If I was a level 50 conjurer and a level 50 black mage, I could get 4 other people like me and go in a dungeon. We could all go blm and aoe like mad, then one of us change jobs and heal, then change back and dps more. I mean imagine binding coil if you could be a whm on one fight and switch to a tank on the next fight, etc etc.

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Can't change in combat, not asking to be able to. Can't change at all, at any time, in duties.

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Even in open world, I could tank a fate solo, dps it solo, and heal it solo all at the same time.

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Can't change in combat, not asking to be able to.

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If there actually is some abuse, I can't imagine what it is, other than being able to say, clear an area, and then mine, and then clear, and then mine, and then clear... If a person wants to do that, is that so broken?

I'm really sad that I'm still hearing "Too much abuse" "To easy to abuse" as excuses to keep a shite system shite. Seriously, do you people live in a environmentally sound bubble cause its too dangerous to go outside? Hiding behind excuses based in fear of possible outcomes that are incredibly unlikely and improbable is something most people see a psychiatrist for. Not taking chances out of the fear of every possible negative outcome despite its overall positive potential is just not a decision choice i can back.

I support the OP.

There is nothing that can be "Abused" by reducing the cooldown delay drastically or removing it. You can't switch in Dungeons or in combat (including when aggroed and not actually fighting). They already have severely "Abuse resistant" walls in place, the ridiculous cooldown is not necessary... If they're adamant against removing it, could they at least remove it for raise? I mean, what possible harm could there be in allowing us to cast Raise without waiting 45 seconds when all these other abuse walls are already in place?

I shouldn't be punished with a ~1minute combined cooldown on switching to the job, raising, and switching back to continue my activities. my cooldown for raising someone and getting back to my activities is in a lot of cases longer than a weakness timer, How is this not considered an idiotic design choice? I get an essential weakness timer for being nice to someone?

For classes it should be more like it wa sin 1.0, where you are limitd to 10 skills, but you could pick up anything from any other class. I don't understand why I can't raise or use protect as a miner or botanist... If I know them.

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Originally Posted by Dannythm

For classes it should be more like it wa sin 1.0, where you are limitd to 10 skills, but you could pick up anything from any other class. I don't understand why I can't raise or use protect as a miner or botanist... If I know them.

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You couldn't use them in 1.0 on miner or botonist that I remember.

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Originally Posted by Steeled

^ Title.

Why is everything placed on cooldown when we jobchange? I played a bit in 1.0 and realize it could have been used more prominently in 1.0 to safetynet yourself in certain situations, and I *think* you could change in combat.

However, here, you can't change in instances, in any scenario. You can't change in combat. When you do, have to wait on hp and mp to regen.

A great example... if I'm mining and see a corpse and feel like being a nice guy, why must I stand around for 45 seconds or so, to cast raise, and then switch back to my miner and wait for cd's to reset (not to mention gathering-points).

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In 1.0 it was not possible to change class/job in combat.
gear? yes
weapon from the same weapon categorie? yes
weapon from another weapon categorie to change the class? no

Even in 1.0 every skill started with cool down after changing the class. Only different is that ARR has a short cool down for every skill after changing class while in 1.0 it was the normal cool down for the single skills. You changed class before the fight against the end-boss? Your strong 15 minute CD skill is now on CD for 15 minutes.

Your botanist would have the same problem in 1.0 (DoM and DoW skills was not equipable with DoL classes). Only different would be that the botanist would needed to wait a bit longer before the raise was ready

I agree, it's extremely annoying and serves no purpose.

To prevent any potential abuse -- not that I can think of any, but as a preemptive move nonetheless, and maybe to make you think longer than half a second before changing classes. I wouldn't mind seeing it gone.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Even in 1.0 every skill started with cool down after changing the class. Only different is that ARR has a short cool down for every skill after changing class while in 1.0 it was the normal cool down for the single skills. You changed class before the fight against the end-boss? Your strong 15 minute CD skill is now on CD for 15 minutes.

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It's either 30 seconds for skills with no CD or the skill's own CD, so it didn't change much.

Bumpity bump bump, bump bump.

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Originally Posted by Meimei

Too much abuse potential, especially when the cooldown can be worked around by being in town when you switch. Which will *not* trigger the cooldown.

I wonder if that same cooldown immunity could be extended to rest areas like camps, too.

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Please, tell me where the "abuse potential" is. You can't change classes in combat and you can't change classes while in a dungeon, so there would be no incidence of swapping classes mid-fight or in the middle of an instance. There's not even any chance for PvP abuse, since XIV does not have open PvP servers, and I'd be willing to bet the arenas will follow the same rules as dungeons do with regards to disallowing class changes. All the extra CD does is create a serious annoyance for those leveling multiple classes out in the open world.

Losing all my GP to res someone feels like punishment enough. Making me wait makes helping people way more of a chore than it has to be.

"Preventing abuse".

Care to explain HOW could you abuse the no-cd job change?

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Originally Posted by Ryios

Because it would be abused in other ways. E.g...

If I was a level 50 conjurer and a level 50 black mage, I could get 4 other people like me and go in a dungeon. We could all go blm and aoe like mad, then one of us change jobs and heal, then change back and dps more. I mean imagine binding coil if you could be a whm on one fight and switch to a tank on the next fight, etc etc.
-SNIP_

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OR... make it where you cant change ur jobs in a dungeon... o wait, that already exists. No, i also think it it dumb that outside of a dungeon i cant change my class without waiting 45 seconds to cast a spell.

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Originally Posted by Steeled

^ Title.

Why is everything placed on cooldown when we jobchange? I played a bit in 1.0 and realize it could have been used more prominently in 1.0 to safetynet yourself in certain situations, and I *think* you could change in combat.

However, here, you can't change in instances, in any scenario. You can't change in combat. When you do, have to wait on hp and mp to regen.

A great example... if I'm mining and see a corpse and feel like being a nice guy, why must I stand around for 45 seconds or so, to cast raise, and then switch back to my miner and wait for cd's to reset (not to mention gathering-points).

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It's placed on cooldown to prevent abuse. Simple as that. The biggest issue is with the longer cooldown abilities, so you can't play the revolving door job game and use all your most powerful abilities in a short period of time.

If you change jobs in a city, there is no cooldown penalty.

Are there really that many people who don't understand how this could be abused? Look, I support the OP, in that the short recast abilities should be reset. I shouldn't have to wait forever to use heavy shot for instance. But the abilities with longer recast times? Do you not understand how someone could swap jobs very quickly outside of combat to reset an ability with a longer cooldown? If they are planning on adding content outside of dungeons/instances, it's very possible to abuse recast timers in between fights.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

It's placed on cooldown to prevent abuse. Simple as that. The biggest issue is with the longer cooldown abilities, so you can't play the revolving door job game and use all your most powerful abilities in a short period of time.

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There is no open world content where this would be an issue and you can't change jobs while in an instance.

I don't understand all this talk about abuse. Balancing around theoretical content not in the game is a pretty poor excuse.

If you must you can keep the system in place that locks longer cooldowns, but there is no reason we should wait 30+ seconds on abilities with no cooldown. Abilities like raise or normal combat skills.