Endgame Gear Progression is Broken

I have been wanting to outline this issue for a while but also wanted to provide some thought-out proposals to resolve this issues as well. As a warning, this is going to be a long post. First off the problem:

Endgame gear progression is broken. There are two major problems currently present; risk versus rewards is way out of line for AF2 and Relic +1 weapons and there is too much gear redundancy. Additionally it raises concerns of the relevancy of new content added later on such as Crystal Tower.

Before I go into some solution proposals here are some assumptions I am making:

• There is a desire to have a balanced risk versus reward system in place at the endgame. This does seem to be the case by the game designers as a very balanced system is in place until you hit the endgame.
• The game designers realize that gear progression is the main drive for the endgame of a MMO. Against they seem to realize this as they have the tome system in place to perpetuate this goal for the players as well as and iLevel system in place that quantifies your character progression after hitting the level cap.
• AF2 and Relic +1 should to be the current best in slot in the game. I think the reason for this is unlike Allagan, AF2 and Relic are Job specific rather than role specific. Suiting out your character in a full set of AF2 generally would be favorable to most players since it better defines them from the other jobs in the game. Job specific armor being BiS also has another advantage which I will go into detail more in the below solutions.

The proposals to resolving the above are just that, proposals. I would ask that even if you don't agree with the proposed solutions, I would hope that you agree with the above problems. Additionally my solutions only really tackle the Darklight -> Allagan = AF2 as well as the Relic +1 issue. I know there is also an issue with Titan weapons and Relics but I'm not really sure how to resolve that myself. Additionally I think that is less of an issue, since while not ideal, a minor solution is that Titan weapons can be used on additional jobs the player has until they get the Relic for that job as well. I completely understand many people will not agree with the proposals as it involves changing gear that people have already worked hard in getting, however I hope after reading this you will understand why I am making the proposals and the health it will bring to the endgame and future content.

My proposal has two phases. Phase 1 involves stopping the bleeding while Phase 2 would look to clean up the problem.

Phase 1 would be to re-itemize and reclassify the current endgame gear while keeping future additional content in mind. Steps involved would be:

• Removing Artifact Armor 2 and the Relic + 1 upgrade item from the Mythology Tomestone vendors.
• Remove Allagan gear drops from Bahamut's Coil.
• Re-stat Allagan gear to be iLevel 80-85, including the weapons.
• Add the newly stat Allagan gear to the Mythology vendor to replace the AF2 gear, and the Allagan Weapon to replace the Relic + 1 upgrade item.
• Re-itemize Bahamut's Coil with AF2 drops as well as some kind of drop that can be used to temper Relic weapons to Relic + 1. The relic tempers could require more than just one in order to balance out risk vs reward.

This re-itemization would resolve many issues:

• Removes the current Allagan and AF2 redundancy allowing people to complete gear sets.
• Smooths out gear progression and risk vs reward. You can gain very good gear without ever setting foot in Bahamut's Coil, however it would also create a drive for players to want to tackle the Coil for the better gear that can be found there as well.
• Alleviates the high Mythology Tomestone cost to gear out multiple jobs since Allagan is role specific and can be shared similar to Darklight.

Additionally, this opens up a lot more options for future content. I don't know exactly what the team has planned for Crystal Tower, however the above solution also paves the way to be able to do some interesting things with the Tower and gear. First off, it can be itemized with iLevel 80-85 gear and it would make sense for all players to take on this content as the Mythology limit would still be slowing down gearing and no doubt people already taking on Bahamut's Coil will still be able to fill out gear slots with Crystal Tower Gear.

By moving AF2 to Coil only, another very interesting option opens up. They could add AF2 temper drops the Crystal Tower that could be applied to AF2 to provide additional effects that were lost from 1.0. This would provide motivation for ALL players to take on the Crystal Tower, even the ones that are completing Coil on a weekly basis.

With Phase 1 out of the way, the more difficult part Phase 2 the clean-up comes into play. One option would just be to leave items as they are and just implement the Phase 1 changes. This could cause problems though as people with Allagan gear will find themselves with lesser gear and people that are a few Tomes short of that Relic +1 will feel cheated if they just miss the cut-off. So to fairly clean-up the issue I would propose the following:

Implement a system that was similar to Dated gear in 1.0 to all current Allagan, AF2 and Relic +1 items in the game. This would mean drastically lower the stats of these items then implement a trade-in system for players which again is a system already in place today. Details would be:

• Dated Relic +1 can be traded in for a standard Relic plus the amount of Mythology Tomestones Allagan weapons would cost. The player then can use those Tomes to buy an Allagan weapon from the vendor or choose to spend them elsewhere.
• Dated AF2 can be traded in for the cost of Mythology Tomestones the amount the current slot would cost for the Allagan equivalent.
• Dated Allagan can be traded in for a AF2 item of the same gear slot.

Completely understand the above will be very controversial to a lot of people, but I think it is the fairest way to get the end-game gear progression on the track it needs to be both for the current endgame as well as any future content until the next major expansion is released.

Omg. That was way too long

You see the thing is the ilvl 80 gear will drop from ct when released in 2.1. It should have been ready before release so we could progress right.

But I don't mind having fun with the challenge of coil.

Or add a set bonus to the AF2 gear that makes it better than the rest.

Smarter, not harder.

Wow, finally someone realised how silly the gear system is atm, guess that comes from SE's inexperience.

Like there should only be couple AF2 tradable with myth tomes if any, I though Yoshi-P is a veteran wow player which should know these type of stuff, guess not huh.

Since there's no gear swapping during battle, it's easy to max out two or 3 jobs. I'm thinking that they are going to need to keep the treadmill going fast enough so people don't cap out too soon and unsubscribe until the next expansion -- so don't get too attached to what's currently available.

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Originally Posted by Jeht

Or add a set bonus to the AF2 gear that makes it better than the rest.

Smarter, not harder.

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This is one possible solution, however this doesn't tackle the fact that you have to use Mythology tomes to individually gear up every job. It would be better if Allagan was in place for this since it can be shared like Darklight.

I agree 100%, the system is completely broken right now, and putting CT in is not going to fix it. It's simple: Amdapor Keep drops iLvl60 gear, while dropping tokens for iLvl90 gear. This does not make sense at all. A +30 iLvl jump is way, way, too much. I don't even think this is a controversial issue. The gear from Myths is simply not in line with the content that rewards them.

All is fine but you have to include crafting in that. I won't go into details but there are many threads on this forum with suggestions to make crafting into gear progression system. Ideal to me would be something like that: ilvl 50 quest; ilvl 55 crafting; ilvl 60 dungeon; ilvl 65 crafting; ilvl 80 crystal tower; ilvl 85 crafting; ilvl 90 coil; ilvl 95 crafting. That is ofcourse if the crafting materials would drop ONLY from the dungeon (so ilvl 95 materials from coil). Right now both crafting is bad and gear progression is all over the place. Tomes should go away - I always hated token system.

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Originally Posted by Lotarion

...Ideal to me would be something like that: ilvl 50 quest; ilvl 55 crafting; ilvl 60 dungeon; ilvl 65 crafting; ilvl 80 crystal tower; ilvl 85 crafting; ilvl 90 coil; ilvl 95 crafting. That is ofcourse if the crafting materials would drop ONLY from the dungeon (so ilvl 95 materials from coil)...

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I kind of like the crafting ilvl fit in idea. It definitely would make crafting more viable and attractive. The raid crafted gears should also be BoP (maybe a weaker version for BoE to make some money from it).

Though, i prefer a token system to a system based on pure luck. Back in WoW TBC, the guild Nihilum who were the first in the world to clear the black temple never got a single warglaive drop from illidan until the next expansion. Whereas random other guilds have farmed 6-7 sets and are doing paid runs for random rogues in their server. Its the main reason why the next legendary in the game used a token system.

No because you want to take good gear way from casuals, just because i dont want to step foot inside coil and waste my time in hardcore content does not mean i dont also want good gear even if it takes much longer farming tomestones to get it

I somehow feel like the intention of the existing system is to give purpose to 'casual' players, so that they may obtain the 'best' gear for their job over a long period of time from grinding AK (more dungeons to come ofcourse) and don't lose out to 'hardcore' players.

But no, it doesnt work this way. Casuals will get bored of Ak way before more content gets out and leave the game, hardcore people will get bored of Coil because it does not reward them for their effort accordingly.

I think Crystal Tower will fix some of this problem with the iLevel 90 stuff,


I do agree strongly that AK dropping 60 gear, isn't in line with the dungeon, neither the Reward (myth) or what it takes gear wise to run it well.

Since AK is the next set of gear 60 to drop in a dungeon, people go Hit 50 with AF>> try AK, to farm 60 gear, AK in a group with AF just isn't fun, usually many wipes as the skill required to pull of a run without wiping in a group with AF basically has to be done just about perfectly in order to not wipe; skill people not accustomed to endgame just do not have yet, and the lack of gear is another 50-% against them.

Honestly... 55 gear should drop in CM, and 60 in Praetorium. THEN>>> AK Maybe 60 Accessories or something,
Yes both CM and Prae are very easy, but lets face it, by the time I finished farming my DL in those, the 60 gear in AK was useless.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lotarion

All is fine but you have to include crafting in that. I won't go into details but there are many threads on this forum with suggestions to make crafting into gear progression system. Ideal to me would be something like that: ilvl 50 quest; ilvl 55 crafting; ilvl 60 dungeon; ilvl 65 crafting; ilvl 80 crystal tower; ilvl 85 crafting; ilvl 90 coil; ilvl 95 crafting.

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Not sure I necessarily agree about tomes, but this is pretty much how I'd do it in terms of progression. However, I would propose a quick and easy fix to the current progression gap. All you have to do is restat current ilvl70 crafts to ilvl80 and you'd have your interim gear. They already take more tomes than Darklight, plus require the services of a crafter and can risk failure (i.e. non-HQ). Wouldn't take much to solve the problem. Ilvl60/5 items can come later; HQ Militia gear is between AF and Darklight already.

When I saw someone with a +1 Relic I thought it was created with items that drop in BC which would actually make sense, when I realised how easy it is to get a relic +1 I was shocked.
I agree this token system is totally broken. Giving casuals a chance to get good gear ok but BIS gear with easy to gather tokens? no way.

On a side note, this game is just released what gear will we need to progress to in a year from now? iLevel 150+? Where are these high iLevels leading to in the future? And if BC will stay the end for a long time people will be running around in i90 in no time with nothing to look forward to.