Mobility during fights (or lack thereof)

One major gripe that I have about WHM is the long cast times and lack of instant abilities. I find myself stacking spell speed every chance I get in a desperate attempt to make myself more mobile. I try to save regen for movement and I also try to save my utility abilities for movement. but regen lasts so long, you're not casting it very often. I am a farily conservative healer and I tend to always save swiftcast for raising people and likewise benediction in the event that the tank drops to 10% or less.

Demon wall in AK is a great example of where I wish I had more instants - mainly for the final phase when adds spawn. I can certainly keep regen on everyone then, but some dps still require more healing than that and it is quit tricky avoid purple, red circles, dispelling, and finding time for a full Cure to cast.

I would very much like to see more instant abilities added. Even if the instant abilities had long recast timers, at least you could save them for movement and plan accordingly. Or I would like to see procs, that could make the next Cure be instant, or even off of GCD... man that'd be sweet.

Anyone else finding WHM frustrating at times because of this lack of mobility? My only mmo experience was in rift, where I played chloro and had many instant abilities that had long-ish cooldown timers. I really enjoyed that play-style.

Heck no! That is probably one of the single largest differentiation factors between WHM and SCH. You get throughput, but you are much stickier in terms of movement.

If you are having so much trouble, grab Virus and E4E from the SCH toolkit (both instants) and use that for temporary mitigation.

Your example on Demon Wall is a bit weird. You just aren't very good at it yet if you and your party are having that much problem with the bees. As a SCH, the only spell I cast is Succor (which has a CT) and the rest of the time is either using Sacred Soil, E4E, or DPS'ing the wall.

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Originally Posted by FinagleABagel

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The largest differentiation for SCH and WHM is hands down MP conservation. You are more mobile because your pet does half your work.

I have and use virus as I mentioned about utilities.

I have no issues with Demon Wall, but some dps in PUG groups cannot seem to avoid the aoe. I'm simply saying it would be nice to have a way to help save them while I'm also moving to avoid the aoes.

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Originally Posted by dragonflyseksparade

The largest differentiation for SCH and WHM is hands down MP conservation. You are more mobile because your pet does half your work.

I have and use virus as I mentioned about utilities.

I have no issues with Demon Wall, but some dps in PUG groups cannot seem to avoid the aoe. I'm simply saying it would be nice to have a way to help save them while I'm also moving to avoid the aoes.

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I see no reason to buff WHM without taking away something else. If you take away something else, then I feel like the SCH/WHM synergies are weakened.

Instant abilities being regen and benediction, so we have somethings to cast and move. Cure isn't really that slow so you can get a few off while stopping and moving if you need to.

Make use of your subclass abilities, Eye for an Eye is instant though short range, if you need to protect someone and move, and swift cast can get you either an instant raise, or an instant cast Cure II while on the move.

Make use of medica II (since demon wall has no threat) and regen and you should be fine and hardly need to use cure on demon wall. Demon wall is actually easier for most WHM from what I've heard from the scholar community (I'll be trying it out on my scholar soon so I may have feedback to say otherwise) but our regens are awesome don't discount them.

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Originally Posted by dragonflyseksparade

The largest differentiation for SCH and WHM is hands down MP conservation. You are more mobile because your pet does half your work.

I have and use virus as I mentioned about utilities.

I have no issues with Demon Wall, but some dps in PUG groups cannot seem to avoid the aoe. I'm simply saying it would be nice to have a way to help save them while I'm also moving to avoid the aoes.

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ugh, no. The pet can only cast cure equivalent, and we are more than happy to trade it to something like medica 1. Wanna try it?

If pugs cant dps bees fast enough while avoiding AoE you cant do much beyond medica and esuna. That fight is pretty much a tard test.

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Originally Posted by FinagleABagel

I see no reason to buff WHM without taking away something else. If you take away something else, then I feel like the SCH/WHM synergies are weakened.

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I hadn't really considered it a buff as much of a quality of life improvement. I definitely think SCH could benefit from many QoL improvements too, mostly associated with pet control.

I've found that I've been forced to be mobile as the white mage and finding that positioning that let's you get that cast in without getting caught by avoidables is key.

I've tended to use Swiftcast more liberally instead of only Raise scenarios.

Same with Divine Seal, it'll usually go up alongside with a Medica II, a Regen on a non-tank, or try to get a Cure II out there over the MP friendly Cure.

If party members are taking too much damage from avoidables, I consider this outside the realm of healer's correction. (I.e. You can make up for the missing knowledge or mistake of one player on occasion, but not for two players or lots of mistakes).

The other thing you can watch for in almost every fight is predictable patterns. If you can memorize where and/or when certain attacks will happen, you won't have to move that far to get out of it, and continue casting as normal.

Oddly enough, I really don't need to use lustrate on demon wall. A succor here and there+physick is enough, and even then some SCHs say they don't need to heal at all, and let the fairy do it.

Knowing predictable patterns does help, and what helps even further is people not taking uneccessary damage during that fight.

Murder holes hitting people for 300-400 is annoying enough, but lustrate only feels needed on demon wall if:

-bees are alive too long, and hitting multiple people with their frontal thunderstrike attack/AOE paralyze
-people not dodging liquify lines.

I know that feel, though. Demon wall feels unfair for the healer if the DPS isn't good, and you'll probably blame yourself or the job. My first AK had me feel that.

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Originally Posted by dragonflyseksparade

.. but some dps in PUG groups cannot seem to avoid the aoe. I'm simply saying it would be nice to have a way to help save them while I'm also moving to avoid the aoes.

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If the DPS are not avoiding AoE its their fault, and does not mean a job should be buffed to counter others stupidity.

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Originally Posted by Terius

If the DPS are not avoiding AoE its their fault, and does not mean a job should be buffed to counter others stupidity.

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Totally this.
Demon Wall is all about the dps. Healing isn't much needed at this point as it's just a race between dps damage and time as long as the group can avoid the aoe attacks.

This is probably the easiest part of AK for a healer.

My advice would (as simple as it is) to just get some better dps in your group.
Not helpful, I know. But it's the truth.

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Originally Posted by Terius

If the DPS are not avoiding AoE its their fault, and does not mean a job should be buffed to counter others stupidity.

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I agree with you. Demon wall was just an example, although maybe not the best example since most of the damage is avoidable if dps is sufficient.

The main idea was just to give WHMs something other than Regen and benediction as mobile heals. I don't care if it costs 500mp or has a 30sec + cooldown... just something to allow us to pop a heal in case an aoe spawns under us in a critical moment. Another example, the trash leading up to the final boss in AK - spawns random aoe under... half the time it interrupts a Cure.


In the end, I guess I'm just not used to a highly immobile healing class. I learned in rift to work with a repertoire of instant cast heals and abilities and really find it frustrating to just stand around casting long cure spells.

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Originally Posted by Ephany

My advice would (as simple as it is) to just get some better dps in your group.
Not helpful, I know. But it's the truth.

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Yea I understand. I was fortunate to find a group yesterday with relic+1 dps and darklight+ gear. One of the dps used LB as soon as we walked in to Demon Wall and they burned it before any adds spawned. We ran AK twice in what was probably 45 minutes. My mind was blown.

Of course I think it would be nice to be more mobile, but I think it would lower the skill level needed to play a WHM, and also step on our partner the SCH toes a little.

Right now I like having to "plan" a move, I like having to "manage" my recourses as well as my enmity it adds challenge to the job to learn your little tricks for each major fight and memorize patterns to "pre-move" so you can be healing for the big hit not moving and moving when everything is ok.

As for people standing in the bad.........they always will and if they don't die and the WHM or SCH can save their ass with an instant most of the time , they just wont get better and stay lazy or non-attentive, or never really learn the fight like you had too.

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Originally Posted by Jarlax

As for people standing in the bad.........they always will and if they don't die and the WHM or SCH can save their ass with an instant most of the time , they just wont get better and stay lazy or non-attentive, or never really learn the fight like you had too.

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The biggest mistake I see new players make in the demon wall fight is letting the bees distract them from liquify lines, or standing off to the side when there's a repel incoming. Can't blame them for it though. I'm sure everyone gets distracted once by a new mechanic, and falls victim to something they were dodging just fine until then.

Best advice I give to dps if they're new to demon wall is to dodge everything that can be dodged, and don't forget about repel. It usually works.

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Originally Posted by dragonflyseksparade

In the end, I guess I'm just not used to a highly immobile healing class. I learned in rift to work with a repertoire of instant cast heals and abilities and really find it frustrating to just stand around casting long cure spells.

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Well damage doesn't typically go out in huge bursts, and if it does, you should be standing still and ready for it. I'd like to give SE credit on not making fights where the healer is intended to be running for their life while someone takes sudden burst.