Hi everyone,
I've been talking with my Linkshell friends for a while, and looks like there are actually people that agree with me.
So, I think the rewards of Castrum Meridianum and Praetorium should be rebalanced, so that Praetorium gets more rewarding compared to its "little sister". The point is, Praetorium is much more difficult than Castrum (not really hard on the overhaul, just compared to Castrum); Castrum is just a breeze while Praetorium requires that extra bit of effort, but for the same reward.
I'm not implying you should give a better reward for Praetorium, you could even lower Castrum's reward for what I care (I fear however that a HUGE hoard of people would complain). I'd just love to have a reason for doing Praetorium again, since it was so much fun, and that fight was epic. It's such a waste of a good dungeon that it should go into the trashbin of the "pointless".
What do you guys think? Do you agree? Or maybe you think it's an unneeded change?
Rebalancing of Castrum Meridianum/Praetorium rewards
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09-25-2013, 06:11 PMAlexander_9211Rebalancing of Castrum Meridianum/Praetorium rewards
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09-25-2013, 06:21 PMBehb
Yes I agree with you, Praetorium is more interesting, more difficult to rush (as far as i know) so it should be more rewardable. Moreover it's the final dungeon ...
120 philo instead of 100 can be a good compromise ? ^^
Personnally, I'm sick of castrum because of people mood ... They are always upset to lose 1 minutes because a new guy aggro something...
Praetorium is more linear if I remember well so situation like that will occurs less often (I hope). -
09-25-2013, 06:45 PMAlexander_9211
120 or 150, or maybe 100 phyl/20 myth, something like that.
Yeah I seriously don't know what's wrong with people I find in DF... They want everything and they want it istant. Skip everything that is skippable, quit if you fail on Titan first time... Does it really matter if you close the instance in like 10 minutes less? Most times by skipping mobs you waste even more time because with 8 people it's easy that something goes wrong and you end getting the opposite, you aggro the whole instance on 1 person. I don't really understand this speedrun frenzy lately.Quote:
Originally Posted by Behb
P.s.: Done with this little off-topic :) Sorry -
09-25-2013, 08:01 PMBlossomRose
NO. ABSOLUTELY NOT.
Praetorium is EASIER to rush with a premade group. My Linkshell's record is 19 minutes so far, and we do this by skipping the first two floors entirely (run to the teleporters, it drops all aggro when you port, also some of the mobs leash back).
CM and Praetorium are fine where they are at 100.
It's AK, Wanderer's Palace, and the three Primals which need a buff so that they are ROUGHLY competitive. Garuda almost is, the others not so much. -
09-26-2013, 03:45 AMAlexander_9211So, imho, the problem is not "We shouldn't make Praetorium more rewarding" but "We should fix Praetorium skipping runs". I find that skipping monsters totally ruins a dungeon. You're doing only the bosses, what's the point of it? Where's the fun? You shouldn't be supposed to skip them anyway. Like it was for Amdapor. If we fix this, Praetorium can get more interesting as a liable source of Tomestones and we can speak of the tomestones amount again.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlossomRose
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09-26-2013, 03:51 AMntall1
Castrum: Lower the amount of philo tombs gained.
Praetorium: Keep the same, maybe add a few myth tombs to the end fight.
AK: Remove all myth tombs from its normal mode. And add them back in the heroic versions once those are released.
I bet SE is kicking themselves for even allowing us to grind Myth tombs via AK Myth tombs get us Ilvl 90 gear. The same ilvl of gear obtained in Coil. Technicaly someone can gear up by farming AK only and be wearing Coil lvl gear. The only restriction being that stupid 300 cap. -
09-26-2013, 04:21 AMBlossomRose
Except that by the time you have a full set, at 300 tomes a week, the next tier of content will probably be out. Off the top of my head, you're looking at:
825x2 (chest+legs)
495x3 (head, gloves, boots)
375x5 (ring, ring, earrings, choker, belt)
900 (relic upgrade)
5910 tomestones. 300/week, that's 19.7, so say 20, weeks.
That's five months, six if you miss a couple of weeks, to FULLY EQUIP YOURSELF. Dunno about you but by then new content will probably be out.
On the other hand you could do Coil runs and probably have most of your gear in ~4-6 weeks unless you're REALLY unlucky. -
09-26-2013, 04:58 AMSenzura
My FC can complete Preatorium in 23 minutes, Castrum in 29.
Put in the work to learn the dungeon, and you'll realize they both give adequate rewards -
09-26-2013, 05:16 AMEmSixAre you implying trash mobs are fun? Monsters that provided no challenge and only waste time are definitely not fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander_9211
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09-26-2013, 05:18 AMCyanDvaiHere's the problem with that. When people get to these instances to put in "the work" everyone who's been doing it 3-4 times a day for the past 2 weeks don't want to help them learn the instance. Instead they rage at the new players for not knowing the instance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Senzura
These people are the worst part of this community. -
09-26-2013, 08:09 AMBlossomRose
I agree, the current system is trash. It just comes down to going FAST FAST FAST FAST so that you can do the same dungeon X+1 times than you did it yesterday or else you're wasting your time.
I would, personally, prefer a system which doesn't reward SPEED, because no matter what happens, what new changes are made, it will ALWAYS be about completing content AS FAST AS POSSIBLE which will leave slower and newer players behind.
Honestly, I think they should just put a limit on how many tomestones you can get PER HOUR. 100 per hour. The end. And that's it. Speed runs are dead. People take more time to do the dungeons, stop ruining it for people who want to watch the cutscenes, AND you have a consistent rate at which tomes are earned without touching how much the dungeons give. -
09-26-2013, 04:52 PMAlexander_9211I'm not sure if an hourly cap would be the solution, but definitely something should be done to fix speedruns. They totally ruin content.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlossomRose
Are you implying speedruns are fun? Getting things done as quickly as humanly possible and skipping 90% of the dungeon as it was originally designed, over and over and over and over again is definitely not fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by EmSix
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09-26-2013, 04:56 PMTheodric
I'm getting pretty tired of the obsession with completing dungeons as swiftly as possible. A lot of them are very beautifully designed and enjoyable to go through with the right mindset. Teaching new players how to complete them instead of driving them away can also forge new friendships.
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09-26-2013, 05:34 PMGyrus
one thing i did like about my previous game (AoC) The dungeons had hardly any, if at all trash mobs!! I loved not having t o sit hour and hours through trash. Bosses were insane though.
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09-26-2013, 06:42 PMFurioThat's how it should be imo. Trash isn't hard, it's just tediously boring. I'd rather spend an hour wiping on a boss than 60 minutes clearing trash to reach a lack-luster fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyrus
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09-26-2013, 09:39 PMSenzuraThats why I said "my FC".Quote:
Originally Posted by CyanDvai
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09-27-2013, 12:12 AMPuck
Speed runs bring out the worst in people, and it bleeds through to pretty much every instance where perfection is a must and if any mistake is made, people start dropping. I had a healer quit Wanderer's Palace last night when a Summoner in the party said he hadn't been before. That might mean it would take longer, or maybe even *gasp*, a wipe.
I'd rather they just remove the rewards from these two story dungeons completely. It won't really solve the problem with players because that's just how people are now, but it would make those instances far more enjoyable for people going through for the first time. -
09-27-2013, 04:14 AMntall1
I am getting tired of ppl's obsessions with killing speed runs. The reason speed runs of these dungeons are done in the first place is because they are the fastest source of tombs. Doing CM fast or slow does not make it a better dungeon. The fact is.. players doing CM have most likely already done it 100 times. Why would anyone care if they want to spend less time doing it??
The problem is not speed runs, its not ppl wanting to watch cut scenes, it has nothing to do with skipping trash mobs. It is all about lack of variety in obtaining gear required for end game progression. To fix the problem SE needs to release more ways to get end game gear, and make it more interesting that repeating the same lame 20 minute dungeon over and over and over. -
09-29-2013, 05:04 AMAvalon_AlbrookThe perfection of this response cannot be overstated. And my first time finally seeing it for myself here happened last night in CM and Praetorium, both of which I did for the first time. What a showcase of extremes...Quote:
Originally Posted by CyanDvai
Half of the CM group was new and saying they didn't know it, like I didn't know it. But the other half just couldn't be bothered. Nothing but insults for slowing them down. Never explaining a damn thing and then screaming if a single mob got aggro. Saying a random "tank pull" when there's 10 mobs that could be pulled and then screaming "NO NOT THAT ONE TANK GOD WTF" because clearly the expectation is that I read minds. It got bad enough after a certain level of awful behavior that I snapped back more than once and, because they wanted to do it in half an hour so badly and yelled at everyone to skip cut scenes, I said nah, I think I want to enjoy them now, and let them play just to piss off these douches. Treat me like garbage and I will do nothing to accommodate you.
The Praetorium run, though, was like night and day. 3 had run it before (but never finished -- never beat Ultima Weapon on the sky level), the rest of us were new. And so help me, my heart skipped a beat when CONVERSATION started to happen right from the start. No attitudes, no attempts at superiority demonstration. Friendly assistance in what to expect, what to watch for, playful banter to keep the mood light, etc. And what do you know, this collection of Praetorium noobs and people who never managed to finish it before completed the run with plenty of time to spare. SHOCKING what actual teamwork can bring you. -
09-29-2013, 05:12 AMSuiriekoThe first time, Yeah. I get it. No one wants to do speed run the first time, but I can definitely say that no one wants to not wants to do speed runs over and over again just for tomestones. People want to finish these dungeons as swiftly as possible because they're spamming it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodric
However, I agree that new players shouldn't have to deal with speed runs, it does ruin the storyline. -
09-29-2013, 05:15 AMHolyhunter
Praetorium can be ran faster than CM, there is no reason to increase the reward.
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09-29-2013, 05:22 AMTirionCrey^ThisQuote:
Originally Posted by Holyhunter
Praetorium SR can be as low as 20minutes...it's easier to speedrun than Castrum, cause it's basically just bosses, while Castrum has several places to mess up if a person gets unneccesarry aggro etc.
My FC does Praetorium all the way...it's faster, it's easier and it's more fun than Castrum. -
09-29-2013, 06:19 AMholayou will not see new content in 5months, this is not WOW, even WOW is not that fast.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlossomRose
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09-29-2013, 06:43 AMRaenryong
WoW isn't particularly fast on the update front.
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09-29-2013, 06:59 AMSenzuraExexpt they said that there will be new content every three months.Quote:
Originally Posted by hola
Also, the above poster forgets that i90 gear doesn't just come from tombs. Theres coil drops and crafters an make gear that is even better than coil drops. -
09-29-2013, 07:08 AMholasorry i was wrongQuote:
Originally Posted by Senzura
rephrase it
you will not see a higher tier of content in 5 months. -
09-29-2013, 07:09 AMRanen
I don't condone the way people treat the first time dungeons runners, but I absolutely do not think that speed runs should be removed/fixed, not unless they include more trash drops that aren't completely worthless for a non-crafter, not too mention include more allagan pieces so people can get more gil at end game, without the need to craft/gather. But that's a totally different issue.
The fact is there's only 3 dungeons that drop tomes, and after running them countless amount of times, it will get boring and annoying having to deal with trash mobs that don't drop squat. -
09-29-2013, 07:37 AMSenzuraAgain, I'm not so sure.The dev post a few days ago said that "Previous content will have its difficulty lowered when new hard and extreme content is added". Yoshi also said that Coil would be nerfed in 2.1, which suggests that the extreme primal battles and maybe the hard dungeons+Pharos Sirus will above coil 1-5.Quote:
Originally Posted by hola
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09-29-2013, 02:03 PMTirionCrey2.2 has further Turns in the Coil...and 2.2 is scheduled for February/March...that is...let me calculate...October---November---December---January---February---March...5/6 months...Quote:
Originally Posted by hola
And they said that further Turns will be itemized higher than current one.
PS: Now I got the Boney M song stuck in my head <.< -
09-29-2013, 02:32 PMBlossomRose
You will be seeing higher content every half a year or just about, yes.
Already been confirmed.
So /shrug.
Either way, Myth tomes are not meant to be your primary source of gear and never were. You're supposed to get your main gear from Philosophy tomes, then Crystal Tower, then Coil, and buy pieces you're missing/Relic+1 with Myth tomes.
Only reason things look too expensive right now is because people are trying to skip the entire progression and go straight to AF2 exclusively. -
09-29-2013, 05:24 PMholathey said it? i didnt knowQuote:
Originally Posted by BlossomRose
again, you will not see next tier of content in 5months, 6months after game launched. trust me. and 2.2 will be in the next financial year， which is april or later. -
09-30-2013, 03:00 AMBlossomRoseAGAIN. Read what other people posted.Quote:
Originally Posted by hola
They already confirmed that the next Turns for the Binding Coil of Bahamut are going to be coming in 5-6 months, with 2.2.
So yes, you will be seeing that higher content very soon. (Relatively speaking.)
Until then we'll have 2.1 to last us (which is coming within a month or two, at most) which will introduce harder dungeons and harder primal fights.