This is't a common occurence is it?

Ive ran three dungeons today. And two of the dungeons I had two different Black Mages and the third one a tank...all with the same issue.

Now, I could care less about someone having to have the best equipment ever to get into a dungeon. Matter of fact, as a WHM, I find it more challenging having to pick up the slack in heals because of poor agro/dps tactics etc....its just more fun.

Both of the black mages had utterly no idea what to do...at lvl 37. All had lvl 13-24 armor (white)

I was curious about it and asked if they ran dungeons before Then the tank and two of the black mages told me they honestly had no idea what to really do because the tank spams his attacks when doing fates and I guess black mages has some kind of ice AOE they can spam in fates.

They told me they pretty much only do fates and when they want to learn the real mechanics of the game they do dungeons. Which is ok at this level but I hope they figure this out before they hit HMs.

I did a low level dungeon to help my brother and the tank and the dps had no idea what to do either, so I just explained them and it went better after that.
But I also found people that had no idea what to do and wouldn't talk in chat so I don't know how it's gonna be later on for them.

welcome to fate noobs.

It's hard not to blanket-label the issue, but this (seemingly) stems from the FATE party crew, where it matters not what your gear is rated at, if you or your team are there, you get exp. They level up pretty fast, skipping the quests and actually playing their class/job, so when it comes time for a dungeon or primal, they have n idea what to do. And they never even think about gear. If they did, no one would register for the DF at level 50 with level 18 accessories (I have seen it!). The most we can do is educate, and hopefully it will spread.

I can see where they are coming from, since FATE exp is attractive, for sure. But to come into a dungeon for the purposes of learning is a bit skewed. Sure, everyone learns there, and everyone has a first time. But when you've others depending on your performance (and in turn your performance depending on your gear, or lack thereof) then it's time to sit back and take it all in. Maybe personal quests and leves are better for that.

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Originally Posted by RinoaHeartilly

But I also found people that had no idea what to do and wouldn't talk in chat so I don't know how it's gonna be later on for them.

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People also do this at 50 lol

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

People also do this at 50 lol

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This is true but I dont think its funny =(

Blizzard 2. Just got it on my baby 12 thm (swiftcast, go!). The spell has no cooldown and is virtually free to cast because it triggers huge MP regen.

In a non-boss fate, sadly, all a blm should be doing is casting Blizzard 2.

And that's everything that's wrong with fates.

FATE trains are leaving too many people in this situation. SE should really put a cap on how many FATEs you can do in a day to prevent people spamming them 1-50.

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Originally Posted by Panthan

This is true but I dont think its funny =(

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I think it's hilarious. Especially when you see a tank pull with Provoke. Yay +1 enmity!

This should be expected in casual gaming. Those player just graduated from Facebook game. Give them some slack.

Maybe the tutorial on teaching them how to equip stuff at lv5 need to be repeated in every 10 levels

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Originally Posted by Ron_Burgundy

FATE trains are leaving too many people in this situation. SE should really put a cap on how many FATEs you can do in a day to prevent people spamming them 1-50.

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You have no idea what you're talking about. FATE has nothing to do with it. You could have zero FATEs in the game and you would get this exact same problem in dungeons. They're called dungeon noobs or party noobs. They have never partied before and simply are unaware of the mechanics. These people exist regardless of whether or not there is a dynamic quest system (FATE).

Irrational people need to stop misplacing blame and nurture some common sense and critical thinking.

You'd have the problem but it wouldn't be as common.

Tanks and healers kill slow, which is convenient because it would make them more willing to use the duty fighter to party with people that kill fast.

And you learn a lot more about playing your job while questing than you do while spamming flash, overpower, and Blizzard 2.

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Originally Posted by antiviolence

I think it's hilarious. Especially when you see a tank pull with Provoke. Yay +1 enmity!

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I used to also scoff at tanks who thought Provoke was a good starter. But there actually are a few circumstances where it makes sense.

Remember Provoke has a much longer range than Shield Lob. On occasion it will be dangerous for the tank to get within Shield Lob range for the pull. Therefore, a Provoke *followed* by a SL once the mob gets closer might make good sense, as much as I hate burning the precious Provoke cooldown unless it is truly necessary.

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Originally Posted by antiviolence

I think it's hilarious. Especially when you see a tank pull with Provoke. Yay +1 enmity!

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It is easy to criticize others but hard to reflect on yourself.

Provoke has the range that Shield Lob/Tomahawk doesn't.

Blaming bad players on FATE are like blaming the Welfare system for lazy people...

Be objective, bad players are everywhere and they are fine the way they are as long as they're having fun... every dungeon run need not be an ego trip for the supposed "elites" to bark down orders or ridicule others for being such bad players...

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Originally Posted by ReiszRie

It is easy to criticize others but hard to reflect on yourself.

Provoke has the range that Shield Lob/Tomahawk doesn't.

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Or you could, y'know, ask the healer to pull with Aero and pick it right back up with a shield lob when the mob gets closer, instead of blowing a cooldown?

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Originally Posted by Kaedan94

You have no idea what you're talking about. FATE has nothing to do with it.

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I'm not too sure about that. I've played MMOs for a long time and while every MMOs have those people who really don't know their class...everyone I have talked to stated all they do are fates

I came across yet another Black Mage who casted the AOE blizzard and fire 1...at lvl 38 because he didn't know any better and he, too, stated all he ever did was just fates.

I have nothing against those who live on fates. I do have something against the actual system. Yes, you should use them only if you know your class and you need to level fast but for the most part I am having to breastfeed the fate babies through dungeons and primal events. If this is common at my lvl, I will not enjoy healing 10 lvls down the road when someone hits 50 from doing fates and then jumps into a dungeon to grind end gear...and know nothing of their class.

The sad thing about these comments about BLMs and FATEs is...they're not even doing that part right. Trying to hit things with Blizzard is a crapshoot; any BLM worth their salt knows that tagging mobs with Scathe is the far more reliable method.

This is part of the issue with fate parting...people that do it on their first time through, they don't learn gear, their class, or game mechanics.

nth to do with fate, but non-party exp-ing in general. had it been in ffxi, these ppl would have been weeded out in valkurm dunes.

that being said, the mmo crowd is different today, and i wont be playing if this is ffxi all over again.

most imptly, it falls on the community to educate then uninformed. sitting on the high horse wont get the community anywhere. at least the ppl mentioned by OP tried to learn mechanics in the dungeon. we should just do what the OP did, educate, tolerate, and enjoy the game.

Guildheists should be mandatory for dungeons. I think they do a pretty good job to teaching game mechanics to newbies.

SE could impliment a limit on FATEs like 1 per hour. They would be treated as a little bonus to your EXP while you wait in town for your dungeon group to form. Of course people would use their one allowance on the really good FATE leaving the rest as dead...or maybe FATEs could take up your leve allowances.

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Originally Posted by Lucke

SE could impliment a limit on FATEs like 1 per hour. They would be treated as a little bonus to your EXP while you wait in town for your dungeon group to form. Of course people would use their one allowance on the really good FATE leaving the rest as dead...or maybe FATEs could take up your leve allowances.

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/facepalm cant say nothing more or maybe.. you go full retard, never go full retard man..

now back to topic..
I blame SE on this , SE decided bring mmorpg causual (mostly PS3 players) and didnt do a much to guide them (i dont think guildhest are enought). Go and check oficial web sites, averge causual will have a lot of problem to find any usefull info. about roles and what they should do..
Sure we have youtube full of how to play <insert whatever> guide, but do you realy think that these players have any slightly idea that they even should try find some of this info ?

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Originally Posted by Lucke

SE could impliment a limit on FATEs like 1 per hour. They would be treated as a little bonus to your EXP while you wait in town for your dungeon group to form. Of course people would use their one allowance on the really good FATE leaving the rest as dead...or maybe FATEs could take up your leve allowances.

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This would have been a good suggestion, if only 1/3 of the role did not have such a long queue time. Healers and Tanks can do lots of dungeons and at a faster rate than DPS who need to wait around 20-40 minutes. I am leveling a DPS class now and since my first class was a Healer, I have noticed how horrible the waiting is for a spot in the dungeon. We all know why this is happening, so lets not discuss this.

Assuming we follow your suggestion, then our only option as a DPS while waiting in a queue is to either level a another class (combat classes needs duty finder aswell, Guildheists needs duty finder aswell) like gathering and crafting or do levemetes and lets not forget for Levequests you need allowence and the experience is not that great.

Personaly, I think this issue could have been fixed if crafting gave better type of gear. Right now my level 15 dungeon gear is alot better than my level 20-25 crafting armour and has better stats than alot of the level 20-25 armours.

Now if you were a DPS with no quests and knew that crafting your own armour would be nothing compared to dungeon gear, what would you do?

Do I think being useless to a group is a good thing? NO!, but seeing what their options are and the fact that majority of players have a Me! Myself! and I! type of mentality, I can understand why this is happening.

Its not the fates at all, its that fates are the only non tedious way to level in this game once Quests run out, if all parts of the game were as similar as the fate trains but gave players some idea of how to use their classes things would be vastly different..

Honestly why do you people expect players to fight through tedious dungeons and grindy content which gives very little exp and rewards and not use fate trains to level easier, no one in their right mind chooses the hardest stuff to do just for the hell of it, they need incentives or drastically different content to level on.

People need to understand a lot of players play casually and for enjoyment of the story/world and rewards, not work, grind and challenging gameplay.

Knowing and confessing to having no clue is the 1st step to TRUE elitism.

The most logical solution when approaching the duty finder is not to use it.

I really have to agree with some of the posters here.
This is not the caused by the players but by SE design.

When you start a second character fates trains are the only way to level up.
Sure you could start chaining but you need a group to do that efficiently and then you really dont have a intensive to do anything different then fates just spam some skills for fast kills and rack up the chain.

Now if SE want to change this they need to do fates with a diminishing xp return the more u do.
Secondly they need to bump up the xp from dungeons.
third they need to remove the diminishing returns from syncing
This will help a lot for the following reasons.

1 less incentive to do fates for a long period
2 since fates are less xp more people will start to que for dungeons reducing waiting times.
3 If the dungeons give the xp for the level you are and not the sync level people will que up for more dungeons even below the level they are at

The only real problem would be the syncing and the skills since if you do a level 25 dungeon with a max sync at 28 you cant use skills from level 30 so there should be a workaround here.
Either they remove the skill block or diminishing returns come back at lets say 10 > 15 levels above the sync level.

now for the disclaimer these numbers are pulled out of my ass so pleas if you disagree give a better method or say why a certain system would not work.

Now in a earlier post on a topic similar i gave the option to add more quests however after that i learned why this was not done and that main reason was that everyone would be able to level 1 class to 50 with that method (except of course in the 46 > 50 range) while if you wanted to level the other classes it would not be easy.
Unfortunately fates messed that up and they give you little incentive to learn and understand your character.
Currently i am trying to level up a second character but this is a real pain and every time in really have to join a fate train or just wait for 30 > 120 minutes before i enter a dungeon.
Also i am not a healer never liked to do that i am always a dps so saying well if you want to que fast level a healer or tank my answer is NO.
I dont need to level to 50 in a day but waiting for 30 > 120 minutes for a little xp is also a issue and thats why this problem needs to be resolved.

how does questing all the way help a player learn? stop blaming fates, its the fact that earning exp no longer require party and combat elements that is causing players to progress without knowing their roles.

you honestly think questing all the way help a player learn?

why don't the people who are complaining just take the time to guide and teach these players? this is a community-based mmo, no?

Isn't guildhest and the first 4 dungeons the place you learn the basics of party play? What dungeons were they?

It is not a FATE problem, but more a speedlevel problem where the players get many exp with less effort (same problem was with 1.0 speedlevel).
Solution? Nerf FATE exp.

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Originally Posted by Laerune

Personaly, I think this issue could have been fixed if crafting gave better type of gear. Right now my level 15 dungeon gear is alot better than my level 20-25 crafting armour and has better stats than alot of the level 20-25 armours.

Now if you were a DPS with no quests and knew that crafting your own armour would be nothing compared to dungeon gear, what would you do?

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It take time to get a whole gear set from a dungeon. It is better to get only some gears, use crafted gear for the missing dungeon gear and hop on to the next dungeon.

exactly right. people power level from fates and may do instances when they get bored or for whatever reason. sad but true

I've not seen it once. That's not to say much though, since the tanks afk at the beginning of runs and the dps have to do everything.

OP, it seems you have encountered players who just don't care.

I don't think it's a fate problem. Trust me, I'd MUCH rather level via questing as fates are mind numbingly boring, but I do fates/grinding for efficiency on limited time to play.

If I spam fates to level job #2, 3, 4 etc it's not going to prevent me from reading all my tooltips, comprehending what they say, consulting others, or looking at online guides for my job. It's up to me to make sure I've gathered the information to know what I'm doing, because I care about silly things like that, SE is only going to hold my hands so much. Not everyone does though, and players new to MMOs don't always know about these things, which is where an experienced player can jump in and kindly assist.

SE already gives us an initial 1-50 experience where we do many dungeons which progressively increase in difficulty. They give us class/job quests that help us learn our role for each one. Guildhests are good too but no one seems to use them after their initial run (I wish they'd bump EXP on sub sequential runs).

SE can only hand hold so much, then it's up to the player to actually learn. I guess they could always add an extra mandatory cutscene at the start of every instance showing your job and what they cast/do etc, I'm sure that'd go over splendidly ♥