Remove the 'noob in your party' warning

I know why you did it, it was a good idea, but as is clear from the numerous threads here and elsewhere this is being abused by many jerks, usually tanks, and is rapidly making this game a game for the elitist jerks only.

This needs to go.

I'm not sure I agree or disagree. I really like the bonus while leveling but I hate to hear that the notice is being used for evil.
:/

i agree. i have seen too many tanks splitting because of that message. what sucks is they get a 15 min time out while DDs get to cross their fingers hoping someone will show or they will have a 30-45 min penalty.

It should stay, it was never a problem for the first few weeks - Now that people are farming dungeons for vanity gear and tomes it's a problem - That's not a problem with the message, it's a problem with the playerbase. We can't start removing perfectly fine features to coddle elitist players.

I have never see anybody quit because of the first time bonus.

I disagree. The community as a whole is what decides whether or not it tolerates that kind of toxic behavior, not the tools available to it. When that message appears that's when I know it's time to prepare explanations of bosses and critical mechanics, and it's a good opportunity for me to try to get some discussion going in the group. "Hey there! For whoever is new, please speak up if you'd like to know more about what to expect in this dungeon! I promise I won't bite!"

Low level or high level, it's never failed me and I feel like that message takes some of the pressure off of announcing that you're new to a place, because the game already lets people know for you. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how I feel about it. It's really unfortunate that people out there tend to forget that they, too, were once new and someone had to help them along as well.

Edit: It's really sad that I have to say that last sentence less than a month after official launch. That's kind of messed up.

In defence of tanks (I am one after all, except when I'm not, in which case I'm a hooker) if I see that sign there then I know I have to explain the dungeon layout, any moves from the boss, let's take Stone Vigil.

New player message you explain about giant dragon coming down and making Lalakebob so don't fight there else you'll burn!
First boss, when it runs, stand behind it, it'll special, turn then special again so avoid it.
Then you talk them through what is ahead in the rest of the dungeon.

When I was going through AK the first time I had an annoying healer who was about as helpful as a chocolate fire guard, I didn't know which mobs to tag in which order, they were less than helpful so I buggered off. 2nd time with a group of JP players, the DRG marked the order, talked through boss fights (where to stand) the wall fight (where to stand, where not to stand etc.) and my first proper run was a win and a win for me as I now know the order for when I go through with friends.

Some don't mind teaching first timers, but some don't or don't have time to teach the dungeon at that moment and that notice says hey guys don't go speed running cause someone is new. If it's removed then we need a speed run / no first timer option for the DF

My first time in AK in Bard AF, the tank was really nice to me.

Before every boss fight, he explained the mechanics and made sure I was alright with it, and everyone else waited patiently as I read the explanation. He also told everyone else to take it slow and not use Limit Break so I would know how the fight really is and so I know how to adapt to it.

When we wiped on the bosses, he told me that was the dangers of these bosses, and that next time he and everyone else would be playing seriously. The bosses were so easy after that.

His name was Tic Tac. A great guy. I wish more players were like him.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I have never see anybody quit because of the first time bonus.

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They do stay for the bonus, it is correct no one want to leave for that. But when you they reach 50 and grind for Tombs, or for drop in Level 50 Dungeon that message mean they leave and reque because they don't want to dealt with noobs.

i will never say it enough, if people don't want to meet....first timer (i prefer this terms) they simply need to make group with people like them and not use the Duty finder.

other point, i really think they need to add a sort of system that will increase the drop out delay if you do it too often...

Already I'm starting to see the effects of more players reaching endgame. The "world first ALL the things" crowds are starting to be outnumbered, and their fake gear/experience checks are being replaced with /shouts of "join us to learn the fight" and "don't listen to the people overhyping the difficulty of these fights".

As I expected, things are improving as game hoppers start to head to the next new thing and free trials expire for those who aren't dedicated.

So the message about first-timers in a PT is good. What we really need is cross-server friend lists. Helped a FC mate through Aurum Vale last night and we picked up an awesome WHM through duty finder. I don't even remember her name this morning... T_T

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Originally Posted by Blazn

Some don't mind teaching first timers, but some don't or don't have time to teach the dungeon at that moment and that notice says hey guys don't go speed running cause someone is new. If it's removed then we need a speed run / no first timer option for the DF

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Good idea at least on the speed run option. Would solve some problems anyway. I for one don't find speed runs fun unless there is some reward for completing it in a quicker time so I could avoid those groups who were out for a speed run. I 100% don't mind new people and I like the bonus that is there for helping new players through and being PATIENT enough to allow them to watch the cut scene. If someone feels they don't have time to allow someone to watch a cut scene then they probably shouldn't be doing dungeons at all.

...there's an option to join on-going party already. Why can't there be an option for "non-new only" too? That way, the new player warning/bonus shouldn't be axed while the elitist jerks could live out their fetishes. /huh

Not having the message isn't going to make someone not new. If someone is going to leave when they find out they have new people in the dungeon they're going to leave. That can be immediately...or it an be after the first wipe where nobody bothered to explain a fight because they didn't know they had new people in the dungeon. Honestly it's better for everyone if it's just immediately.

People do not quit because of first time bonus, or 1st time attending the instance, they quit when the players are not geared enough or competent enough to learn when explained. there are people who simply put with their gear and skill level will simply not be able to complete some dungeons (or if do its as the timer hits 0, wasting a lot of time).

I have run with many 1st timers in AK and 90% of them are fine, but some are simply not even in AF, lv30 accesories, and have no clue how to play (thank you FATE grind). in these situations its realy not worth the time. Now geared correct and seems competent you go to first boss and see what happens (maybe stick out to the wall if are unsure), but in most cases you know at 1st boss what your chances are.

point is, its not that people are new, its people who are new and also do not have a clue about how to play that cause the drops.

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Already I'm starting to see the effects of more players reaching endgame. The "world first ALL the things" crowds are starting to be outnumbered, and their fake gear/experience checks are being replaced with /shouts of "join us to learn the fight" and "don't listen to the people overhyping the difficulty of these fights".

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Never saw shouts like that (and yesterday I spent all the friggin day in Mor Dhona) but I hope this is true.

Every time i've been in a group and it was my first time running it, everyone was completely understanding and they helped my explaning the fights to me. Some people are just @$$es and expect everyone to be perfect

I don't agree with getting rid of the heads-up alert that there are new players for a dungeon. I think it is helpful and useful to see. One can set their expectations with the knowledge that at least one person is new.

If you are encountering people who are quitting just because of that message then count your blessings that you didn't have to run the instance with them. Clearly, they need to be carried through the instance and don't know how to do it without others carrying them. (That is written with only a little tongue in cheek.)

Word of advice, if you are new to something please speak up. Most of us will be happy to help walk you thru the mechanics, don't just run into the fray and get upset when you die or we fail.
Dungeons like AK have 4 people, everyone has to do their part to get it completed.

I usually have good experiences, but last night we were doing a CM run for a fresh 50 and so we were gonna let him watch cutscenes and not speed through. 7 people from the FC and we got a DF BLM. Right away we tell him this is not a speed run as we have a first timer. He replies with "Awesome". At that time we didn't realize that was a sarcastic response. So, we then start explaining to the new guy the mechanics of the first pull(he's a PLD). The BLM says, "You are also going to explain shit?" and quits. We just shook our virtual heads, got another BLM replacement right away who had no problems not doing a speed run. Our run took 36 minutes.

My question is for a DPS, is it really worth not being patient to let someone new learn the dungeon and enjoy it his first time by accepting the 15 minute DF penalty and queueing up as a DPS again? How much faster than 36 minutes can you clear CM to make up for the 15 min penalty plus however long it takes a DPS to get the queue to pop? And why are there so many people who seem to take so much offense when there's a newbie in a dungeon?

I like the message, it allows me to know if we need to explain anything. Or even lets them know I need some explaining.. cuz when I try reading from a forums or wiki about a dungeon, i'm lost by the time I load up in dungeon. I just listen for the key points, get in there and try( and then my brain stores it). my first run in AK I felt terrible for what I made my group endure during Demon Wall.. I died so many times by the time we reached final boss my WHM gear was all busted and I didnt have any replacements and could only get like 500hp cure IIs off. But thanks to their not raging out on me and trying to teach me the ways, them bosses are easy now. If everyone could be as nice and forgiving, we would have a lot more experienced players and no need for the elitist shouts we see.

It's nice having the message because first-timers don't always let you know it's their first time, something possibly warranted given how caustic this community can be. That said, it's nice to know when someone doesn't know what to do on a fight that takes coordination. For example, I did an HM Ifrit run where one of the two tanks had no clue either how to MT or how to stun, and didn't let anyone know. It led to some problems that could have been easily avoided.

When people react poorly to it being someone's first time, that's on them. But when you don't let any of your 7 party members know that you don't know what's going on, it's disrespectful, and that's on you. (I probably sound bitter, because I am - I'm a DPS. I hate waiting in queue for 35m only to have things fall apart within the first few minutes because of things like this.)

Um just cause they get the first time message doesn't mean they are unfamiliar with the dungeon, I dunno bout anyone else but Ive youtubed quite a few dungeons on my work break so I get the general gist of things, even friends said to do a bit of research into the dungeons and bosses to avoid headaches. But hey if people want to have a noob freakout then let'em.

Why do you care so much? 1 DPS left and you jump to the forums?

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Originally Posted by Kraggy

I know why you did it, it was a good idea, but as is clear from the numerous threads here and elsewhere this is being abused by many jerks, usually tanks, and is rapidly making this game a game for the elitist jerks only.

This needs to go.

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Level 50 dungeons and "raids" do not give this warning, as the only reason it pops up is that there is an experience bonus for running with someone new. Incidentally, the pejorative use of "noob" in your post can come across, and may be intended to be, as offensive. Being new to content doesn't carry with it the stigma that the term also incorporates, that of idiocy. Everyone, even the most skilled -- even YOU -- would be a "noob" to any content you'd never set foot in. Even your first Sastasha run, YOU WERE A NOOB.

If the tank was really that retard, I'd rather not wasting my time running with him anyways. If the message weren't there, no one gonna know if they need to guide the newbie until after some wipes, and the tank would still leave.

I have a 41 paladin and a 20 archer, 15 pug and 36 whm, I would never do this.. I enjoy taking people through the dungeons with my pally..

IF however, they insist that they are in a HUGE hurry, with the gogogogo speach. I leave. Right then and there. 15 minutes by your self are a gift compared to to 90 with cretins.

I do only pugs, i don't get a chance to play that much and I take it when I can.
So I get a lot of dps wanting to run in and aggro, I let them. Then I get the crap tank speech.
If tanking or healing were so Great in this game, WE WOULD ALL be healers and tanks.

Yoshi, put too much on the healers and tanks, DPS should get aggro LOTS of it so that it forces them to Focus.. :) That would be divine justice.

Penalty for leaving within the first 10 minutes of a dungeon should be steeper.

Granted, while I am thankful for their patience my first AK group wasn't exactly cooperative about it. They pretty much did whatever they wanted with the trash mobs (the two DPS and healer were in full darklight and ifrit/garuda weapons, I was a tank in full AF and a lv44 sword >.>;;;; ), explained the boss mechanics to me and kinda went from there. I just wish more people were like that instead of leaving just because you have people that don't know the instance.

As a tank myself, I don't pay attention to chat and auto assume that at least somebody hasn't been there. I don't care, it's my job to be a tank. I actually hate the impatient archers even more. The ones that offload the second I hit tomahawk and generate more threat then me and don't slow down or wait at all. Those people I'll gladly let die.

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Originally Posted by AsakuraVN

If the tank was really that retard, I'd rather not wasting my time running with him anyways. If the message weren't there, no one gonna know if they need to guide the newbie until after some wipes, and the tank would still leave.

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no one needs to guide new players anyway - no one was guided when the game went live and did just fine - when ppl are new, LET THEM PLAY AND EXPERIENCE THE GAME JUST LIKE YOU DID unless they ASK FOR HELP - if you dont have patience to play with new ppl, then joining a random DF group is setting yourself up for failure, since you ALWAYS have a chance to be grouped with NEW PLAYERS...

I go through all the trouble of explaining fights and will continue to do so up through 50. I like to help people understand and as long as they're trying I don't mind wiping. Fortunately I also have a dedicated healer who is just as adamant about clearing content and explaining fights.

I even go through the trouble of explaining how to tank, to tanks who don't know how. However my most recent experience was not so great as the tank didn't know anything about enmity or how to generate it. They also didn't even try what I was telling them and continued to wipe the party time and again. I left. If that makes me an Elitist jerk then so be it.


Sometimes I think it's the fault of SE. Granted most people may read the text through the quests while leveling up and understand the fact that they are there to protect the party and mitigate damage as much as possible but the fights through the story line do not convey it very clearly as you rarely have to actually tank anything. Just stand back and let the npc's take all the damage while spamming ws'.

Being new to a dungeon doesn't mean you are automatically a clueless player. I've seen "new-to-dungeon" people come into a party and know exactly how to perform their job correctly, which entirely makes up for their lack of experience in the dungeon as they will pick up and adapt to the environment with only a little prompting on less-obvious things from the group.

People have to stop judging books by covers, and also learn to be more involved with the community by assisting other players -- this makes for a better community overall.

Wait, what message!? dafuq?

wouldn't it solve all this trouble if at level 50 dungeons a new player awarded a boost to tombstones and gil instead of the exp that no-one can use. A tank may leave if they're going to lose out on tombstones/hr, but the same ones will probably happily stay for a boost to it. Players should be rewarded for helping out newer players. If SE is against this, another one they could try is that tombstones received in the dungeon don't count towards the weekly cap. We'd never see a party die due to a new player, we might even see FC's advertising to take new players though content to show them the ropes for that bonus/tombstones above cap.

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Originally Posted by Atrious

Wait, what message!? dafuq?

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It sends a message to the entire group, popped up on the screen, that an experience bonus will be awarded as one or more members have never cleared the dungeon before.

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Originally Posted by Breladine

It sends a message to the entire group, popped up on the screen, that an experience bonus will be awarded as one or more members have never cleared the dungeon before.

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only if done "swiftly"....

because we ALL know that NEW players do everything SWIFTLY, right?

le sigh...

speaking of newbie rewards for helping newbies.

Why don't they reward people with other things like 5 mythology tomes for each new player to the HM Primal.

A experienced player can get 35 mythology tome for helping 7 new players complete a HM primal

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

speaking of newbie rewards for helping newbies.

Why don't they reward people with other things like 5 mythology tomes for each new player to the HM Primal.

A experienced player can get 35 mythology tome for helping 7 new players complete a HM primal

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ok, first of all dungeons already reward players for COMPLETING the runs...

if nerdragers are not sticking around to get the COMPLETION rewards, why do you ppl think they would stick around to get NEWBIE HELPER rewards?

secondly, i wonder how many of those rageing nerds whom leave after ONE wipe in a dungeon buy single player games and rage-quit them because they failed ONE time?

lol... i giggle when i think they do this!

I like having the indicator because a lot of the time people will not say so themselves. As a tank I couldn't care less if you're new or pro at a dungeon. I am more than happy to explain things and get stuff done correctly and quickly.

Considering that most bosses consist of the same basic strategy; don't stand in crap, kill adds... It should be a non issue for most people.