Bard upgrade question

I am a Bard with the Bard AF2 Body and I'm about to get my relic soon as I farm my tomes and grab the quenching oil. Should I get my AF2 pants over relic +1 because I read the upgrade is marginal. Thank you in advance

You're more likely to get equivalent pants than a weapon equivalent to relic+1.

In terms of spending tomestones -> damage the weapon is a bad idea, but the right decision isn't that obvious.

I read the weapon has a marginal increase versus me getting the pants that give me a whole lot of crit and still keep the 18 determination

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Originally Posted by Burritoboy

I read the weapon has a marginal increase versus me getting the pants that give me a whole lot of crit and still keep the 18 determination

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At high levels of DEX (~400+), any increase in base weapon damage provides a significant increase in average WS dmg. If you are comparing an upgrade from DL to AF2, the +1 relic will generally win. If you are comparing an upgrade from AF1/Toxotes to AF2, there is a chance that AF2 may win barely, but it's unlikely if the rest of your gear is strong and it may be more efficient to +1 the weapon and upgrade the AF1/Toxotes piece to DL (legs and hands are exceptions). I ran the math in several scenarios and the +1 Weapon was generally the winner. I did a test example below using AF2 Body vs. +1 Weapon. +1 Weapon was better, but AF2 legs are a great piece and may win slightly; can't redo the math until I get home and look at my stats again.

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z...ps93b669fa.jpg

Weapon +1 is the best choice for multiple reason :
- it give better increase then any other parts (even if it has useless skill speed on it)
- You cannot drop allagan weapon (might be on turn 5 or not in game yet, not sure) but you can drop other allagan pieces.

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Originally Posted by Thotor

Weapon +1 is the best choice for multiple reason :
- it give better increase then any other parts (even if it has useless skill speed on it)
- You cannot drop allagan weapon (might be on turn 5 or not in game yet, not sure) but you can drop other allagan pieces.

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This is a pretty good point that I did not mention.

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Originally Posted by Wulfgang

At high levels of DEX (~400+), any increase in base weapon damage provides a significant increase in average WS dmg. If you are comparing an upgrade from DL to AF2, the +1 relic will generally win. If you are comparing an upgrade from AF1/Toxotes to AF2, there is a chance that AF2 may win barely, but it's unlikely if the rest of your gear is strong and it may be more efficient to +1 the weapon and upgrade the AF1/Toxotes piece to DL (legs and hands are exceptions). I ran the math in several scenarios and the +1 Weapon was generally the winner. I did a test example below using AF2 Body vs. +1 Weapon. +1 Weapon was better, but AF2 legs are a great piece and may win slightly; can't redo the math until I get home and look at my stats again.

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How can I take advice from a bard who doesn't even have lancer at 34? pfft

the BEST upgrade for bards with myth tokens is the pants by a large margin. The chest is about equal to the +1 relic. Bards get the worst +1 in the game right now only 1 more damage and a bump in stats we do not need.. we have more then enough acc on darklight and skill speed sucks more then a hooker at a frat party.

However the pants give 34 crit that alone ass 2.3% crit which because of river of blood beats out the 1 weapon damage. Get pants first then the +1 if you want to min max... if you simply want a glowing weapon and do not care if you are doing ti right or not get the weapon upgrade first.

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Originally Posted by Wulfgang

At high levels of DEX (~400+), any increase in base weapon damage provides a significant increase in average WS dmg. If you are comparing an upgrade from DL to AF2, the +1 relic will generally win. If you are comparing an upgrade from AF1/Toxotes to AF2, there is a chance that AF2 may win barely, but it's unlikely if the rest of your gear is strong and it may be more efficient to +1 the weapon and upgrade the AF1/Toxotes piece to DL (legs and hands are exceptions). I ran the math in several scenarios and the +1 Weapon was generally the winner. I did a test example below using AF2 Body vs. +1 Weapon. +1 Weapon was better, but AF2 legs are a great piece and may win slightly; can't redo the math until I get home and look at my stats again.
]

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BTW not only is that math wrong, your interpretation of that math is also wrong.

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Originally Posted by Eckoh

BTW not only is that math wrong, your interpretation of that math is also wrong.

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http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id=202

I made the Excel spreadsheet before this was released. Plug in the "Current + Artemis" base parameters in my scenario shown above into the damage calculator. You get critical adjusted WS dmg of 180.3 for a 150 Potency WS which is exactly what my spreadsheet shows. Not sure what you believe is off, but it would be more helpful to be a bit more specific than "you're wrong." The interpretation is subject to a lot of variables and can't be examined in a vacuum; any comparison depends on what you have and to what you are upgrading. The short of it is that upgrading the +1 weapon is a good option generally speaking, but the Hero's Ring of Aiming, Bard's Hands, and Bard's Legs may be optimal depending on where you're starting.

And thanks Anonydort lol; the switch in BRD SJs from 1.0 to 2.0 caught me a bit flatfooted.

but that glow though

I hope this is all not as big a pain in the ass as it sounds. You are all making me not look forward to doing this...where is there a good "progression" for how to go about the end game gear and weapon stuff that we need to do?