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  1. #1
    Player
    Burritoboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    116
    Character
    Oni Darklight
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 60

    Bard upgrade question

    I am a Bard with the Bard AF2 Body and I'm about to get my relic soon as I farm my tomes and grab the quenching oil. Should I get my AF2 pants over relic +1 because I read the upgrade is marginal. Thank you in advance
    (0)

  2. #2
    Player
    Gunba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    20
    Character
    Gun Ba
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 50
    You're more likely to get equivalent pants than a weapon equivalent to relic+1.

    In terms of spending tomestones -> damage the weapon is a bad idea, but the right decision isn't that obvious.
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  3. #3
    Player
    Burritoboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    116
    Character
    Oni Darklight
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 60
    I read the weapon has a marginal increase versus me getting the pants that give me a whole lot of crit and still keep the 18 determination
    (0)

  4. #4
    Player
    Wulfgang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    116
    Character
    Wulfgang Amadeus
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Burritoboy View Post
    I read the weapon has a marginal increase versus me getting the pants that give me a whole lot of crit and still keep the 18 determination
    At high levels of DEX (~400+), any increase in base weapon damage provides a significant increase in average WS dmg. If you are comparing an upgrade from DL to AF2, the +1 relic will generally win. If you are comparing an upgrade from AF1/Toxotes to AF2, there is a chance that AF2 may win barely, but it's unlikely if the rest of your gear is strong and it may be more efficient to +1 the weapon and upgrade the AF1/Toxotes piece to DL (legs and hands are exceptions). I ran the math in several scenarios and the +1 Weapon was generally the winner. I did a test example below using AF2 Body vs. +1 Weapon. +1 Weapon was better, but AF2 legs are a great piece and may win slightly; can't redo the math until I get home and look at my stats again.

    (2)

  5. #5
    Player
    Thotor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    205
    Character
    Faeldi Chantelune
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 50
    Weapon +1 is the best choice for multiple reason :
    - it give better increase then any other parts (even if it has useless skill speed on it)
    - You cannot drop allagan weapon (might be on turn 5 or not in game yet, not sure) but you can drop other allagan pieces.
    (1)

  6. #6
    Player
    Wulfgang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    116
    Character
    Wulfgang Amadeus
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Thotor View Post
    Weapon +1 is the best choice for multiple reason :
    - it give better increase then any other parts (even if it has useless skill speed on it)
    - You cannot drop allagan weapon (might be on turn 5 or not in game yet, not sure) but you can drop other allagan pieces.
    This is a pretty good point that I did not mention.
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player
    Anonydort's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    53
    Character
    Dort Helper
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfgang View Post
    At high levels of DEX (~400+), any increase in base weapon damage provides a significant increase in average WS dmg. If you are comparing an upgrade from DL to AF2, the +1 relic will generally win. If you are comparing an upgrade from AF1/Toxotes to AF2, there is a chance that AF2 may win barely, but it's unlikely if the rest of your gear is strong and it may be more efficient to +1 the weapon and upgrade the AF1/Toxotes piece to DL (legs and hands are exceptions). I ran the math in several scenarios and the +1 Weapon was generally the winner. I did a test example below using AF2 Body vs. +1 Weapon. +1 Weapon was better, but AF2 legs are a great piece and may win slightly; can't redo the math until I get home and look at my stats again.
    How can I take advice from a bard who doesn't even have lancer at 34? pfft
    (0)

  8. #8
    Player
    Eckoh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    112
    Character
    Eckoh Saotome
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 50
    the BEST upgrade for bards with myth tokens is the pants by a large margin. The chest is about equal to the +1 relic. Bards get the worst +1 in the game right now only 1 more damage and a bump in stats we do not need.. we have more then enough acc on darklight and skill speed sucks more then a hooker at a frat party.

    However the pants give 34 crit that alone ass 2.3% crit which because of river of blood beats out the 1 weapon damage. Get pants first then the +1 if you want to min max... if you simply want a glowing weapon and do not care if you are doing ti right or not get the weapon upgrade first.
    (0)

  9. #9
    Player
    Eckoh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    112
    Character
    Eckoh Saotome
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfgang View Post
    At high levels of DEX (~400+), any increase in base weapon damage provides a significant increase in average WS dmg. If you are comparing an upgrade from DL to AF2, the +1 relic will generally win. If you are comparing an upgrade from AF1/Toxotes to AF2, there is a chance that AF2 may win barely, but it's unlikely if the rest of your gear is strong and it may be more efficient to +1 the weapon and upgrade the AF1/Toxotes piece to DL (legs and hands are exceptions). I ran the math in several scenarios and the +1 Weapon was generally the winner. I did a test example below using AF2 Body vs. +1 Weapon. +1 Weapon was better, but AF2 legs are a great piece and may win slightly; can't redo the math until I get home and look at my stats again.
    ]
    BTW not only is that math wrong, your interpretation of that math is also wrong.
    (0)

  10. #10
    Player
    Wulfgang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    116
    Character
    Wulfgang Amadeus
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Eckoh View Post
    BTW not only is that math wrong, your interpretation of that math is also wrong.
    http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id=202

    I made the Excel spreadsheet before this was released. Plug in the "Current + Artemis" base parameters in my scenario shown above into the damage calculator. You get critical adjusted WS dmg of 180.3 for a 150 Potency WS which is exactly what my spreadsheet shows. Not sure what you believe is off, but it would be more helpful to be a bit more specific than "you're wrong." The interpretation is subject to a lot of variables and can't be examined in a vacuum; any comparison depends on what you have and to what you are upgrading. The short of it is that upgrading the +1 weapon is a good option generally speaking, but the Hero's Ring of Aiming, Bard's Hands, and Bard's Legs may be optimal depending on where you're starting.

    And thanks Anonydort lol; the switch in BRD SJs from 1.0 to 2.0 caught me a bit flatfooted.
    (0)
    Last edited by Wulfgang; 09-25-2013 at 12:29 AM.

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