Crit vs Det

Just curious from everyone's experience which stat is more desirable? Particularly as a White Mage. Just threw together an Alkalurops+1 for the GF and am not sure what materia to meld to it.

Feel free to direct me to a thread where this has been beaten to death for healers, but I wasn't able to find one in the first few pages.

Off-topic but what did you need to make a Alkalurops?

Crit: How much your heals will crit.
Det: How much you heal normaly.

Raise the lowest one as both are useful.

I do know what both stats do, but I wasn't sure if the values were equivalent... Dancing Mad's calculators indicate that 9 critical rate and 6 determination (the value on a Tier IV materia) add the same % to overall healing, giver or take a tenth of a percent. Surprised to see they're so even. I suppose determination wins out simply because the increased healing would be even and not bursty.

As for the Alkalurops, please look at XIVDB: http://xivdb.com/?search/alkalurops

Determination only affects the healing that you receive, not the healing that you do to others...

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Originally Posted by TeddyPrime

Determination only affects the healing that you receive, not the healing that you do to others...

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Utterly false. The wording "increases healing recovered by spells" is slightly misleading, but it means the amount your healing spells recover (on anyone.) It does not affect healing received at all.

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Originally Posted by TeddyPrime

Determination only affects the healing that you receive, not the healing that you do to others...

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From where do people keep getting this completely wrong information? I see your main is an arcanist, but if you cast a WHM Regen on other people, it will tic for the same amount on yourself as it will on anyone else. Pretty sure Determination affects the heals you cast.

On topic, my suggestion would be to see if any spells or traits directly benefit from crit. For the SCH, shields receive a direct benefit from crit (bigger shields). This sounds pretty groovy.

For WHM, your Cure 3 will get an automatic crit 15% of the time when casting Cure 2. Pretty low chance since you really can't spam Cure 2 and expect to have a mana bar for longer than 10 seconds. Other than that, there are no beneficial effects for crit. For WHM, I would suggest focusing mainly on Determination.

It seems that the general consensus on stat weights for WHM are as follows: MND > PIE > Determination > Spell Speed > Critical Chance > VIT. This is based purely on information I have found on various web sites, I play SCH myself, just thought I'd try and help out.

Thank you for the feedback, those were my impressions as well. White Mage gets no bonus for crit, so determination seems like the safe bet.

Our group is gearing up our WHM with Determination, for overall more increased healing, to help with the AoE Healing, which is his job in our group.
But since this is about Materia, I say try to go with as much MIND the gear can handle, and fill out the rest with Determination.

For me, being the Scholar in my group, will go with Crit, to get those really crazy shields up on the tank.

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Originally Posted by Sodamachine

Our group is gearing up our WHM with Determination, for overall more increased healing, to help with the AoE Healing, which is his job in our group.
But since this is about Materia, I say try to go with as much MIND the gear can handle, and fill out the rest with Determination.

For me, being the Scholar in my group, will go with Crit, to get those really crazy shields up on the tank.

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All healing gear has natural mind on it, thus an HQ piece of healing gear can never be slotted with mind. The raw value of a stat on a piece of HQ gear represents the cap for that stat on the piece of gear. This is almost always true with physical stats (MND,DEX,INT) and generally true with secondary stats (Det,Crit,Acc)

(Note: This is only true for combat gear, the opposite is true for Crafting & Gathering gear, the more of a stat something has, the more it can take.)

Alkalurops has natural MND,PIE,VIT and Spell Speed.

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Originally Posted by Ramsey

Just curious from everyone's experience which stat is more desirable? Particularly as a White Mage. Just threw together an Alkalurops+1 for the GF and am not sure what materia to meld to it.

Feel free to direct me to a thread where this has been beaten to death for healers, but I wasn't able to find one in the first few pages.

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I prefer Det, while crits are nice they are inconsistent and often lead just to overheal.

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Originally Posted by Ramsey

All healing gear has natural mind on it, thus an HQ piece of healing gear can never be slotted with mind. The raw value of a stat on a piece of HQ gear represents the cap for that stat on the piece of gear. This is almost always true with physical stats (MND,DEX,INT) and generally true with secondary stats (Det,Crit,Acc)

(Note: This is only true for combat gear, the opposite is true for Crafting & Gathering gear, the more of a stat something has, the more it can take.)

Alkalurops has natural MND,PIE,VIT and Spell Speed.

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Ah, I see! Thanks for the information!
I have never done a high level crafted combat gear, and thought the same rules from crafting gear applied.

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Originally Posted by Ramsey

Utterly false. The wording "increases healing recovered by spells" is slightly misleading, but it means the amount your healing spells recover (on anyone.) It does not affect healing received at all.

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Are you sure about that because I don't understand why 2 stats do same things for a Healer (MIND and Determination)

Have you ever done Titan HM and get entombed in rock? You get a status debuff at the same time that gives a really large determination down. Healing that person with regular heals is almost impossible as it does 60% less healing points cured.

The same debuff is available from fighting Hydra, one of his AoEs gives Determination Down and the only way to give that person a good cure is by using Lustrate which is based on a % of that persons' HP.

I have not seen any information on determination affecting the cures a healer does on someone else.
If it does, please provide link and reference, I'll be happy to read a testing or two to change my mind on this stat.

http://i39.tinypic.com/2mdjxhe.jpg

Unless there's a mistake from SE's part, it might be a huge oversight/mistranslation.

I just logged in, healed my self to see my min and max heal on myself.
went ahead and healed a lvl50 crafter, who should have 202 determination (51 less determination than me).
I had the same min, and max heal on him.

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The same debuff is available from fighting Hydra, one of his AoEs gives Determination Down and the only way to give that person a good cure is by using Lustrate which is based on a % of that persons' HP.

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Hydra's White Breath is an actual healing received reduction debuff, not a Determination Down.

And about Titan... were you the one who got entombed? Your wording is a bit ambiguous on that example. My impression from videos so far is that people with the Determination Down debuff don't take particularly more effort to be topped off. :p

And personally, I've yet to see my Regen ticks vary wildly between different targets. I also sincerely doubt that out of the 50 people or something I randomly ended up with during some hardcore dungeon farming that they all had equal Determination values.

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Originally Posted by TeddyPrime

I have not seen any information on determination affecting the cures a healer does on someone else.

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If you don't look for information, you won't find it. I mean that in the most polite way possible. I actually look for information when researching statistics, and I haven't seen any misinformation indicating that it behaves as you assumed it did.

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Originally Posted by TeddyPrime

If it does, please provide link and reference, I'll be happy to read a testing or two to change my mind on this stat.

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Please use Dancing Mad's Healing Calculator, if you want the numbers and research, it's all on the site as well.

SE did not make a mistake, think about it "amount of HP restored by healing spells" could mean either healing received or dealt, it is indeed ambiguously worded, but logic dictates the truth is the simplest conclusion to get to. All of the other effects of determination increase YOUR potency on OTHER targets. So naturally, the conclusion is that it increases the healing you deal. It should be changed to "healing dealt" for clarity's sake, it seems the ambiguity was an oversight. If I had to guess, simply looking at the description in other languages might reveal a less ambiguous sentence structure, but I'm not going to look at the moment.

I didn't find any information but I just logged on (during work hours :S) and did some quick research where i held my mind static and varied my determination, only two sets, with determination lowered by 27 points.
The set with the higher determination healed for 774-821 and the set with lower determination healed for 758-804. This was done on the same AFK player in Ul'dah.

So I was wrong. I'll need to respec MND > Crit > Det instead. Didn't even have Determination as a variable for my gear before.

For reference, as I already put it earlier in the thread, but the ratio of DET:CRIT for overall healing is 2:3, that said crit is preferable for SCH for their procs, and DET for WHM for less bursty heals. But whenever a gear choice tips that ratio significantly over 2:3, well you get the picture.

I have tested det before.

For around 71 det a physick will heal 10-20 more

Thanks all for testing and like Ramsey said, description is ambiguously worded.