Yoshida-san: A New Way For Gatherers to Gain SP - RESTORATION? :)

To: Producer Yoshida and the FF XIV Team,

There have been numerous posts from people asking for ways that Disciples of the Land (Gatherers) can continue to gain Skill Points (SP) after being hit with the hidden "Gatherer's Fatigue" (before Surplus).

I think we all understand the reasoning the Hidden Fatigue was put in: If you didn't have it, then Gatherers can farm all day, non-stop, and the markets would be flooded with too many items. The market economy has to be carefully balanced. Understood.

Hearing players like Bigglesworth and Ciden post some good suggestions, here's one other possible way to allow Disciples of the Land to continue to gain SP and *do something* after the Hidden Gatherer's Fatigue:

* Restoration: Restoring the Land.

It would be a new activity that Disciples of the Land (Gatherers) can perform at various nodes throughout the world. An example:

* Botanists can approach Trees and Bushes and RESTORE them.

This would be something akin to adding fertilizer, grafting plants, trying to heal damaged trees in the real world. Or planting new Trees / Bushes.

* Miners can approach Mining Points and try and try to RESTORE them as well.

Something like trying to prevent a Vein from collapsing by strengthening its structure (or something like that). ;)

* Fishers can try and help clean up the bodies of Water and RESTORE them.

This would be like the clean up after the BP Oil Spill or dumping, but in FF XIV it's just some way to invigorate the area around that body of water. Or feed the fish some beneficial nutrients, etc. :)


But ultimately, those 3 quick examples above are ways that you can have Disciples of the Land continue to gain SP after being hit with Gatherer's Fatigue, *without* having to gain items from the environment.

This way, you allow Disciples of the Land to gain SP, do some new activity that's interesting, and it *won't* affect the server Economy by flooding the market with more items. It's a Win-Win for everyone. :)

Thanks for your time.

Great idea!

Interesting idea, just having picked up Fishing again and agree that there needs to be some way to gain SP when we hit gatherer's fatigue.

that's a pretty good idea. hopefully SE will take a look at it and implement something similar

Gatherer's Fatigue for Land, Materials for Hand, HP for War and Magic. Limits like these keep classes from capping SP fatigue in a mere day. However, it'd not be a bad idea if you gained a minute amount of SP and no EXP, like failing a synth/gathering attempt. Would keep it balanced and allow a dedicated gatherer keep skilling.

Thinking about it some more I would like to see a system where you could continue to gather crystals and gain SP and perhaps not the items.

It's a little unfair that gathering classes have to contend with 2 fatigues when other classes do not.

I think the worst thing SE did with this game was making DoL and DoH actual classes. As a result people feel they have to be treated equal and it's why the main scenario quests are so awful.

More things for DoL to do isn't bad however, can't really see any flaws in this idea.

Well said Kiara

If so then some adjustment or additions would have to be implied.
For Usage : "Hatchet and Scythe" which one would be best for the task ??? , and a different mini-game, and also would the usual "select and click" be used, or maybe a "new tool" could be introduced, or possibly something else entirely new. .... Well that's what came my mind just now, "how could it happen?". very nice idea, sounds great and it could open up new possibilities for gatherers :)

Well, if they did make the abilities to restore logging points, fishing points, and mining points, that'd be more balanced. Then, instead of getting crappy SP for using these abilities, you just hafta contend with cooldown, which could be 1 min to 5 mins. Only, I'd say they could also be used no matter where your cooldown is for "gathering fatigue". Would help promote skill growth.

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Originally Posted by Dras6fin

Well said Kiara

If so then some adjustment or additions would have to be implied.
For Usage : "Hatchet and Scythe" which one would be best for the task ??? , and a different mini-game, and also would the usual "select and click" be used, or maybe a "new tool" could be introduced, or possibly something else entirely new. .... Well that's what came my mind just now, "how could it happen?". very nice idea, sounds great and it could open up new possibilities for gatherers :)

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Hi Dras6fin,

Thanks! :) Good question.

I think at the most simplest implementation (to save time for the Development Team), the Restoration activity would *not* need a new Tool (and it saves us inventory space). ;) I think we'd just need a few new Animations per Gatherer Class. For example:

* A Botanist can run up to a Tree and try to Restore the Tree's base (some animations showing you trying to "mend" / "graft" the tree, etc.).

The Miner and Fisher would be similar, having a few new Animations of them restoring their gathering points.

The Development Team can even reuse the existing Gathering Nodes in the world to save even more time (instead of trying to plot out new points). :)

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Originally Posted by KorPoni

Well, if they did make the abilities to restore logging points, fishing points, and mining points, that'd be more balanced. Then, instead of getting crappy SP for using these abilities, you just hafta contend with cooldown, which could be 1 min to 5 mins. Only, I'd say they could also be used no matter where your cooldown is for "gathering fatigue". Would help promote skill growth.

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Hi KorPoni,

Yah, I agree. This new Restore / Restoration activity should be available any time, not just during the hidden fatigue. It'd just be a new way to do something when Gatherers reach the Hidden Gatherer's Fatigue.

clever and fresh. I like it.

anything to help with gathering fatigue sp loss, i like it

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Originally Posted by Kiara

Hi Dras6fin,

Thanks! :) Good question.

I think at the most simplest implementation (to save time for the Development Team), the Restoration activity would *not* need a new Tool (and it saves us inventory space). ;) I think we'd just need a few new Animations per Gatherer Class. For example:

* A Botanist can run up to a Tree and try to Restore the Tree's base (some animations showing you trying to "mend" / "graft" the tree, etc.).

The Miner and Fisher would be similar, having a few new Animations of them restoring their gathering points.

The Development Team can even reuse the existing Gathering Nodes in the world to save even more time (instead of trying to plot out new points). :)

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That's good to here, I also thought of animation at a point but removed it from the my post so it kind of surprised me when you said so, so I'm liking this Restoration even more.
Now I'm also wondering If rankings was also part of it how would it happen?, maybe with a difference between grades/rank perhaps.

As an example:
Grade 1: Requires rank 1-15: (*Respectively) Botanist, Miner, Fisher ; "Grafting", "Strengthening", "Cleaning" [1-minute til completion].

Grade 2: Requires rank 16-31: (*Respectively) Botanist, Miner, Fisher ; "Replanting", "Digging", "Feeding" [3-minute til completion].

... and so on... quick and easy examples, what do you think? to much or too little.

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Originally Posted by Dras6fin

That's good to here, I also thought of animation at a point but removed it from the my post so it kind of surprised me when you said so, so I'm liking this Restoration even more.
Now I'm also wondering If rankings was also part of it how would it happen?, maybe with a difference between grades/rank perhaps.

As an example:
Grade 1: Requires rank 1-15: (*Respectively) Botanist, Miner, Fisher ; "Grafting", "Strengthening", "Cleaning" [1-minute til completion].

Grade 2: Requires rank 16-31: (*Respectively) Botanist, Miner, Fisher ; "Replanting", "Digging", "Feeding" [3-minute til completion].

... and so on... quick and easy examples, what do you think? to much or too little.

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Hi Dras6fin,

I like your examples. :) While I'd love to have different ways to "Restore" the nodes depending on Grade, I'd be happy with even 1 new type of activity / mini-game per class as a start.

If you think about it, unfortunately, for all Grades of Nodes right now, a Botanist still only has 1 command to "Log / Chop". Same for Miner, Fisher.

So as a simple start, it'd be great to give us just 1 type of New Activity per DoL Class. Eventually, sure, I'd love to have different ways to Restore depending on Grade. ;)

Maybe, your idea to have "Grafting" can be for the Main Hand Nodes (like Trees) and "Replanting" for Off Hand Nodes (like Bushes / Harvesting Points), etc.

Added a Dev Tag to this thread.

Maybe the Dev Team will find this useful.

Interesting ideas. But it doesn't address the main issue at hand. Gathering fatigue should not be in the game period. RMT aside, trying to control the ingame markets from being flooded aside Disciples of Land are a FULL FLEDGED class system, meant to be Ranked from 1-50, Hand and Land were designed in this game as main jobs. They are not just enhancements to the game.

The game was designed so that Battle, Magic, Hand or Land could be played as a main job without NEEDING to do anything else. Neither Magic, nor Hand, nor Battle are stuck with this auto fail or a similar system after 150-250 successful kills or crafts. It just goes completely against gatherers being an independent class system.

Basically if you chose a DoL as your main you have 90 minutes to 3 hours depending on how you are gathering before your effectiveness at doing your job tanks until you can't even do it. Please list off what other jobs besides DoL are hit with this. Gatherers are second class citizens in this game, it's just how it is.

This kind of system should not be in a game where you can main job as a gatherer. It makes no sense whatsoever in FFXIV, in other MMO's where gathering is just a task you do between killing crap it makes sense. The Dev team needs to come out and either apologize about the gathering fatigue system, remove it and admit that it has no place in a game where your main job can be a gatherer or they need to just come out and admit they failed at making gathering a main job and adjust it to only be a sub system within the rest of the game.

Because as it right now we are not treated like we are a main class system. Sorry about ranting in your thread but I think gatherers need to stand up for their class system, be more vocal about getting gathering fatigue removed instead of coming up with alternate solutions that allow a ridiculous system that completely stops a job from fulling its function in game.

My personal opinions aside I think your ideas are good for enhancing the gathering jobs.

:) Well yes I agree and another thread about "Remove Gathering Fatigue" would be needed , anyhow you've made a good point that it has reassured me that improvements are definitely needed.

So Kia (can I call you Kia?)... your idea is very good but somehow I've felt a limit or maybe in what you've said "I'd be happy with even 1 new type of activity / mini-game per class as a start"... OMG, I can't really say your wrong but not right ether ... y-o-u-r - h-a-p-p-y? how can you possibly be happy:confused: ... it's like what Vesp (Vesper can I call you Vesp?) is saying "Gatherers are second class citizens in this game." I've felt that way more then once as I'm gathering trust me, and the fact is " we are not treated like we are a main class system"... that is so true... the current situation as it is or from ones point of view to another. My point is your "Restoration" Idea is great so great that letting it be a part for fixing the current system is a shame....

So I've got to ask you a question " Are you sure you want your brilliant idea to go towards fixing that system?" think about it, go play the game, then give your answer. Not being mean just asking a question... (*P.S. call me Dras please, as my LS does and its just way to long)

Yo! Lemme adivertise my own post regarding this matter! ^^

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...tion-Guild-Job

I agree that, specially due gathering fatigue, DoL really need another way of ranking up. The restoration idea is nice, but it actually would require a more specific area, like Bluefog, where you have machinery and poluting facilities. Maybe when Garlean territory is unlocked we can do this there...or around Ala Mihgo since it might be kinda destroyed nowadays.. ^^

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Originally Posted by Vesper

Interesting ideas. But it doesn't address the main issue at hand. Gathering fatigue should not be in the game period. RMT aside, trying to control the ingame markets from being flooded aside Disciples of Land are a FULL FLEDGED class system, meant to be Ranked from 1-50, Hand and Land were designed in this game as main jobs. They are not just enhancements to the game.

The game was designed so that Battle, Magic, Hand or Land could be played as a main job without NEEDING to do anything else. Neither Magic, nor Hand, nor Battle are stuck with this auto fail or a similar system after 150-250 successful kills or crafts. It just goes completely against gatherers being an independent class system.

Basically if you chose a DoL as your main you have 90 minutes to 3 hours depending on how you are gathering before your effectiveness at doing your job tanks until you can't even do it. Please list off what other jobs besides DoL are hit with this. Gatherers are second class citizens in this game, it's just how it is.

This kind of system should not be in a game where you can main job as a gatherer. It makes no sense whatsoever in FFXIV, in other MMO's where gathering is just a task you do between killing crap it makes sense. The Dev team needs to come out and either apologize about the gathering fatigue system, remove it and admit that it has no place in a game where your main job can be a gatherer or they need to just come out and admit they failed at making gathering a main job and adjust it to only be a sub system within the rest of the game.

Because as it right now we are not treated like we are a main class system. Sorry about ranting in your thread but I think gatherers need to stand up for their class system, be more vocal about getting gathering fatigue removed instead of coming up with alternate solutions that allow a ridiculous system that completely stops a job from fulling its function in game.

My personal opinions aside I think your ideas are good for enhancing the gathering jobs.

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Hi Vesper,

Oh no doubt! I agree that SE advertised the Disciples of the Land as full-fledged Classes, on par with War and Magic. But they're not. Agreed 100%.

I'm just saying, I understand (but hate) the reason they added in hidden Gathering Fatigue. It was a way for them to stop RMT and just massive flooding of the markets of goods (IMHO, we'd probably have 10 times the amount of Ore, Wood, Fish, etc. on the markets now if there were no barriers).

What's the solution? I don't know.

But at least one way for now, to allow us Gatherers to get more SP (and not stop after 90 min - 3 hours as you say), is something like the Restoration "RESTORE" action I was proposing. If SE won't remove the Fatigue for now, at least give us another way to continue to earn SP, do some fun activities and keep going.

Hopefully one day they find a way to resolve it fully.

Hi Dras, :)

Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to have a fully fleshed out, multiple Actions / Activities per Grade Node version of "Restoration" like you were talking about, with Grade 1 having certain things to do, Grade 2 having certain things to do, etc.

I'm just saying given how overwhelmed Yoshida-san and his team are, and how busy they are with the Core Combat System fixes first (and then Class System, Armory System, Job Switching, Dungeons, Synthesis and so many other fixes), I fear that Disciples of the Land fixes are far down the road.

Given that, that's why I'd be "happy" with even just 1 set of New Animations and 1 Activity per DoL Class *to start*. ;) Later down the road, of course I'd love for them to give us multiple activities per Grade Node and really flesh it out. :)

Would it also be too much to ask for to have a few more of the grade 4 and grade 5 gathering areas?

Battle classes have two rank 30 and two 40 zones around each of the city-states, yet gatherers only have one. It makes gathering just a bit more dull always going to the same four zones over and over. Perhaps having one "safe" area with monsters that don't aggro, and one "unsafe" area with slightly different drop rates?

I'm not proposing that this would be the end-all be-all fix for gathering, but is something relatively simple that could be added without an entirely new feature being added.

One thing I would also like to clear up is some people think my only goal is to get Gathering fatigue removed so I can fill my inventory and profit. Nothing could be further from the truth. To be honest I havent even sold materials ina couple months that I harvest.

I just want to see DOLs treated as a full fledged class system. Yes I understand the reason why things were done as they are. But I still believe the system needs to be removed and some other solution needs to be found that doesn't make us DOLs feel like we are being treated differently.

What that perfect balance is? Honestly I don't know. But I will continue to be vocal as long as I play.

And Keira, I like your ideas, but more as an addition to an already great system, not as a band-aid fix to an unfair system :)

Hi Lienn,

Great suggestion about the group job. :) If they implemented that, that'd be another fun way to get SP without getting more materials to flood the market.

As for the Restoration idea, while on paper it seems like we need some "pollution generating facilities" (the cause for the cleanup), we don't have to take it to that extreme.

In other words, Trees can naturally be damaged by whatever reason (strangers scarring trees (hinted at a few times in Gridania's storyline); invigorating the lakes / water that's polluted from normal dumping by current cities; strengthening the mineral veins / excavation sites that have been "over mined" etc. ;) Just some ideas without the need for SE to create major visible causes for the damage.

Awesome idea. It adds more flexibility and content for DoL classes. Would really like to see this idea built upon and added in game!