Zero Job Customization in this Game

I am really not digging the pigeon holing they have done to all the classes/jobs in the game so far. They have basically built the game to be "this job is this role. period".

You do no have the freedom to play anything unique or that brings in a challenge.
"WAR is tank." You don't have the option to play it as a DD even though it totally could be!

Bard really stumped me too, they have basically made it into a Ranger with hardly any party support skills. "Bards are DD and you cant play them as anything else."

Also, it seems a complete waste that they gave conjurer/white mage total attack damage but still expect you to just be a healer. It seems set up that you could DD with a WHM, but then it kinda cuts that out from under you.

Is anyone else feeling this? Or is the gaming community as a whole happy with "I'm going to make a PAL and they are best at tanking so that's all I want to do with it or see other ppl do with it." ????

There are going to be multiple job routes per class such as Scholar and Summoner are for Arcanist so you're just gonna have to wait for those to be released if you want diversity.

I think the job customization comes from choosing your job. If you want to play a DD, there are half a dozen options for you, why choose one of the tanking options if what you really want is to deal damage? The DPS abilities that tanks and healers have, like your example of WHM, are likely so that those roles can still solo effectively.

That said, in the future you'll likely be given an option a lot like arcanists have, where the class branches into different jobs. So perhaps GLD and CNJ will eventually have job options to become something other than a tank or healer. However that will just be more customization from choosing a job.

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Originally Posted by MorbidAngel

There are going to be multiple job routes per class such as Scholar and Summoner are for Arcanist so you're just gonna have to wait for those to be released if you want diversity.

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True, but what are they going to do off Archer now that they basically made BRD into a Ranger...... Also, if there were tons of classes/jobs to play then this would be fine, but they are not making every possible combination so it would still make sense to be able to customize your class/job more. Like have each one have two roles instead of just the one?

This game revolves around a trinity so DPS WHM or fulltime DD PLD isn't going to work. WAR already does some decent damage. WHM can throw out some DMG if it wants to along with SCH.

Bard is the XI Ranger in this game since there will be no fulltime support classes which means that Ranger could either appear as a pet class or become Beastmaster sometime in the future.

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Originally Posted by Sparthos

This game revolves around a trinity so DPS WHM or fulltime DD PLD isn't going to work.

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It actually does "work" unless your definition of working is doing everything in the most efficient, fastest, least "work" way. My boyfriend has done dps as a WHM for numerous dungeons, ifrit, titan, etc. And we have had a friend doing dps as a WAR too and no, they don't take all my hate either.

I'm loving it. Nothing makes me want to chuck a monitor in the air more than asking 10+ members in my guild that play tanking classes if they can tank a run and be told "I'm dps" or "I'm dps until I'm geared to the teeth and tanking is easy mode stupid then maybe I'll be willing to tank can I come to your run as dps but lot on tank gear?"

Not every game needs to have a lot of class customization. That's usually thing that smaller budget F2P MMO's have in order to to justify not having to plan out classes.

The dirty secret is that "customization" is usually just a disguise for lazy design. Most MMO's with "customization" just give a class a few abilities and stats that can be leveled up, and that's it. They let the community figure out the correct builds and do their job for them.

The diversity you get in other MMOs from talent trees etc. is the same diversity you get from being able to level all classes on your character

want more customization? take off your job stone and see how many cross abilities you have then.

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Originally Posted by xwxmeowxvvx

Also, it seems a complete waste that they gave conjurer/white mage total attack damage but still expect you to just be a healer. It seems set up that you could DD with a WHM, but then it kinda cuts that out from under you.

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With your own FC party anything is possible. Went through AK as dps whm since our 8man got split up during Relic Reborn with pt setup of GLD/SMN/WHM/WHM and we went faster than most pugs.

The DF isn't amazing but the limitations can be bypassed completely.

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Originally Posted by WellFooled

I think the job customization comes from choosing your job.

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https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/5353140224/h9F147CA6/

You're confusing job customization with job variety. Cross-skill 'customization' is a joke, unless, for instance, you're hell bent on using Ruin as a BLM for reasons unknown.

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Originally Posted by xwxmeowxvvx

"WAR is tank." You don't have the option to play it as a DD even though it totally could be!

Bard really stumped me too, they have basically made it into a Ranger with hardly any party support skills. "Bards are DD and you cant play them as anything else."

Also, it seems a complete waste that they gave conjurer/white mage total attack damage but still expect you to just be a healer. It seems set up that you could DD with a WHM, but then it kinda cuts that out from under you.

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I'm feeling this, but not quite in the same way. I think they've tried to keep the trinity system pretty set for the casuals (lest you get a giant population of players that can do everything but suck constantly). It makes sense they'd want certain jobs to be defined as certain roles, but what rubs me wrong is how the nature which they fulfill that roll is overly rigid.

However, I think a case could be made for some multi-faceted jobs like say, SMN, that could function as either a DPS or a tank if given the choice. That said, they should really make you decide what route you want to take, and the only paltry efforts made towards skill and stat trees are the extra stat allocations from your base class... which is probably the dumbest idea SE has had thus far. Let us craft our jobs to how we want them to be, don't exclude us from playing jobs because stats are tied to our base class. This very idea goes against the whole point of the armory system, and is rather disappointing.

I am actually quite fine with well defined Jobs with little customization. Yes I do like having a lot of customization as well.

Problem with having more customization is very quickly only cookie cutter builds become the only accepted builds. Then eventually to balance things the shortcut of homogenizing everything tends to happen as well.

So I would rather have well defined classes that are kept unique instead of lots of customization that quickly becomes essentially non-existent.

i actually dont mind what theyve done.

I was on your side with the whole "i wanna be what i wanna be!" BUT I thought about it a while and yes.

I would be one of those guys doing /shout WHATS THE BEST PALADIN BUILD?

then i felt very embarrassed i had argued all those weeks that i wanted to be an individual. So in the end I don't mind what they've done with it

I will say though, that items are GENERIC and they need to make items more epic and appealing

/rant

they said, they create this game simple so that its attract new and old FF fans

I'm fine with defined and pre-determined classes, but the additional/sub skills feel like a trick to me. They imply some sort of choice, but the options are so few and far between that there is little in reality. In beta it felt like the sub skill options were less restricted, and I'd like to go back to that.

Although that problem might work itself out later as the game gets new jobs. So I guess we'll see.

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Originally Posted by Chek

In beta it felt like the sub skill options were less restricted, and I'd like to go back to that.

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I wonder why? Hmm.....*looks back to previous post* Oh yea. REMOVE YOUR JOB TOKEN.


In beta, you had so many cross class skills because there were no jobs. Does no one remember what was said during live letters regarding classes and jobs?

Classes are meant to be jack of all trades. You have access to all the cross skills in your class, which is easy by just de-equipping that nice little soul crystal you are so attached to. Jobs are meant to be specific to their role, so you were never expected to have a lot of customization with jobs.

As a BLM, there are but a few skills that I can bring over from ACN and ARC. Of those, I probably only really use 1. Raging Strikes. However, when I'm a BLM I'm not looking to do all kinds of wonderful customized things.

Now, when I'm out and about, I tend to remove the BLM crystal. Why? Because in exchange for not using 5 relatively useless skills, I can put in a whole bunch of the other classes' skills. Yes I say relatively useless because they are. Freeze is rarely used by me since I have Bliz2 and that doesn't require me to set a marker. Have yet to use Apocatastasis. Manawall I use mainly to help with big hits from bosses. Flare is used mostly for add clusters, and convert is best used with Flare. I can do without those most often.

While right now I don't have many classes up, I had more in BP3 to experiment. I could go running around as a THM with stone 2, blood for blood, raging strikes...Customization in the game is dealt with classes not jobs. Jobs are specific to what they need to do.

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Originally Posted by Inuakurei

Not every game needs to have a lot of class customization. That's usually thing that smaller budget F2P MMO's have in order to to justify not having to plan out classes.

The dirty secret is that "customization" is usually just a disguise for lazy design. Most MMO's with "customization" just give a class a few abilities and stats that can be leveled up, and that's it. They let the community figure out the correct builds and do their job for them.

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wut? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEkWH8DB7b0

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Originally Posted by GilbertLapine

You're confusing job customization with job variety. Cross-skill 'customization' is a joke, unless, for instance, you're hell bent on using Ruin as a BLM for reasons unknown.

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My choice of words wasn't the best. What I'm saying is that you don't need job customization because we have job variety. At least not the sort of job customization that is suggested in this thread. If someone is saying they want to play as a warrior who's main job is to deal damage, what they're saying is they want to be a lancer. The option is already there.

In a game that revolves entirely around vertical progression, simplistic AI, and trinity roles, customization brings precisely two things to the table: min-maxing with the elitism that goes along with it, and what I like to refer to as Special Snowflake builds.

The former makes the community even more toxic than MMO communities usually are already, and necessitates extremely tight tuning in order to prevent min-max builds from trivializing content, further reinforcing the social need to min-max with a code-based need to min-max. The latter basically just makes people useless and annoys people from having to carry them through content.

If you want deep customization that doesn't cause those problems, the first two have to go or be minimal factors in design. The third doesn't HAVE to go but it certainly helps.

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Originally Posted by Gentaro

The diversity you get in other MMOs from talent trees etc. is the same diversity you get from being able to level all classes on your character

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pretty much this
you guys have to remember that this is a Final Fantasy game
FF's core is the jobs based system, not talent based
if you want talent, you can play WoW/Rift/GW2/SWTOR/etc

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Originally Posted by WellFooled

My choice of words wasn't the best. What I'm saying is that you don't need job customization because we have job variety. At least not the sort of job customization that is suggested in this thread. If someone is saying they want to play as a warrior who's main job is to deal damage, what they're saying is they want to be a lancer. The option is already there.

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Subjective. Some people want their DD to use an axe.

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Originally Posted by Gentaro

The diversity you get in other MMOs from talent trees etc. is the same diversity you get from being able to level all classes on your character

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Not enough special snowflake for some. I'm pretty sold on BLM as it currently exists, so this isn't a concern for me, but I sympathize with those whose don't feel their needs are being met by the current system.

I truly wish they would include some kind of support classes or hybrid jobs. We all know you can simply switch weapons to rotate between dps/tank/healer but there is something unique and fun about a class that IS a hybrid class or a pure support class.

I would love to see bards go back to being FFXI bards. I would love to see a melee class that could DPS and ALSO be a valid offtank. I would love to see a magic class that could DPS and ALSO be a valid offhealer or support class.

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Originally Posted by GilbertLapine

Subjective. Some people want their DD to use an axe.



Not enough special snowflake for some. I'm pretty sold on BLM as it currently exists, so this isn't a concern for me, but I sympathize with those whose don't feel their needs are being met by the current system.

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I'm pretty sure if you grow some patience you will start seeing more variety in weapons and jobs in FFXIV, the game is young and they're most likely working and planning on multiple new jobs as we speak. Maybe in the future you will be able to make a Beastmaster that wields an axe.

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Originally Posted by Bulwyf

I truly wish they would include some kind of support classes or hybrid jobs. We all know you can simply switch weapons to rotate between dps/tank/healer but there is something unique and fun about a class that IS a hybrid class or a pure support class.

I would love to see bards go back to being FFXI bards. I would love to see a melee class that could DPS and ALSO be a valid offtank. I would love to see a magic class that could DPS and ALSO be a valid offhealer or support class.

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We can hope that they will implement Red Mage then :)
And maybe Dark Knights will be a hybrid between tank and DD.

jobs are like specializations, eventually every class will have a 2nd job that fulfills a different role

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Originally Posted by Ryuni

grow some patience

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http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/...s234/BRTky.jpg

Wow there, tiger. You'll put someone's eye out.

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Originally Posted by Iskander

want more customization? take off your job stone and see how many cross abilities you have then.

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This. That's what classes are for.

As has already been mentioned, there is no real customization in any game - you either play the "best" build, or you are gimped. Think of the jobs as pre-defined Best Builds - it keeps special snowflakes from trying to main tank with their less than optimal build :p