Dragoon skills need to have lower cooldowns

Jump to 20 seconds
Spiheshatter Drive to 30 seconds
Elusive Jump to 2 minutes
Dragonfire Dive to 40 seconds (lower the potency on this skill if need be)

The way the cooldowns are now it's really a gimmick on a use by use scenario and just isn't worth it in a rotation. All the jump abilities should also have the dragoon be immune to attacks. It defeats the purpose of the ability being iconic and makes it feel just like another long rage attack.

Thoughts?

i dont think dragoon immunity is necessary, but i do think dragoons should be able to move their landing spot mid air so we dont land in red

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Originally Posted by zx10r

The way the cooldowns are now it's really a gimmick on a use by use scenario and just isn't worth it in a rotation. All the jump abilities should also have the dragoon be immune to attacks. It defeats the purpose of the ability being iconic and makes it feel just like another long rage attack.

Thoughts?

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I thought the purpose of on-use abilities was to be used situationally?

I do agree that Jump needs some short immunity during the landing animation. I've seen my fare share of Dragoons get gibbed because they landed in the path of an attack. It's along the same vein as that ridiculous Raise animation that makes you immune to everything except incoming damage.

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Originally Posted by ElaintheShy

i dont think dragoon immunity is necessary, but i do think dragoons should be able to move their landing spot mid air so we dont land in red

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Inmunity is a must, cause is pretty much the whole point of jump skills.

But inmunity has to be when in air, not when casting nor landing.

Jump without immunity is like wasting a spot on your hotbar. It's a good gap closure but its completely useless in dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Inosaska

Jump without immunity is like wasting a spot on your hotbar. It's a good gap closure but its completely useless in dungeons.

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no it isn't, just learn where the openings are, bosses aren't spamming avoidable AoE all the time.

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Originally Posted by Inosaska

Jump without immunity is like wasting a spot on your hotbar. It's a good gap closure but its completely useless in dungeons.

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It's tough, but jumps should be used during your GCD. It will overwrite into the cooldown, but it's still a DPS increase. Lackluster, but still useful, if a little annoying.

So much fail in dragoon job skills. Either because of retardedly long cooldowns or skill design (root part). Nothing really interesting and fun to use.

use jump just after dodging a red

I can't say that I use jumps a lot. More I use them as a "nice feature" once in a while. For example when in dung some boss drops AOE (like poisons) and tank pulls the boss so that i can't rly get to him without stepping into that poison. It's nice to jump over it. Or use Jump when mob casts aoe around him (jump, hit, land back in the safe zone). But as i said - as they are now I perceive them as a nice feature more than something fundamental, because damage-vise I don't see the reason in including them in my standard rotations. (haven't hit lvl 50 though yet)

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Originally Posted by xnonamex

I can't say that I use jumps a lot. More I use them as a "nice feature" once in a while. For example when in dung some boss drops AOE (like poisons) and tank pulls the boss so that i can't rly get to him without stepping into that poison. It's nice to jump over it. Or use Jump when mob casts aoe around him (jump, hit, land back in the safe zone). But as i said - as they are now I perceive them as a nice feature more than something fundamental, because damage-vise I don't see the reason in including them in my standard rotations. (haven't hit lvl 50 though yet)

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off-GCD is the only reason you need to include them in your rotation, granted the animation runs longer than the GCD itself, but it's still an increase in damage as opposed to just waiting out that time.

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Originally Posted by xnonamex

I can't say that I use jumps a lot. More I use them as a "nice feature" once in a while. For example when in dung some boss drops AOE (like poisons) and tank pulls the boss so that i can't rly get to him without stepping into that poison. It's nice to jump over it. Or use Jump when mob casts aoe around him (jump, hit, land back in the safe zone). But as i said - as they are now I perceive them as a nice feature more than something fundamental, because damage-vise I don't see the reason in including them in my standard rotations. (haven't hit lvl 50 though yet)

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Well that is the point of this post... It's called a Dragoon class that really is just a lancer class since all the Dragoon skills are on too long of cooldowns and become a gimmick. Reducing the cooldowns to include them in the rotation would make the class feel more like a Dragoon.

After running a few AK runs (with friends) I've found out that the jumps are amazing. I learned from my time on Monk how important a gap-closer skill is, and Spineshatter Dive is the best gap-closer there is. Jump on 40s cooldown is also a very good source of DPS I keep it on constant cooldown, it's a great source of damage and you can overcome it's long animation by using it right after a weaponskill, gives just about time for the GCD to recover and Power Surge makes it deal close to 600 damage on a normal hit and almost 1000 on a crit. On group pulls Dragonfire Dive is just amazing as a starting hit.

I use Jump in my initial rotation and periodically throughout the fight but never by itself; only when combined with Life Surge + Power Surge. Also, you should never use Jump if you anticipate a dangerous AoE incoming.

1. Heavy Thrust (flank)
2. Phlebotomize

--- Pop Blood for Blood in between GCD here ---

3. Impulse Drive (behind)
4. Disembowel
5. Chaos Thrust

--- Pop Internal Release in between GCD here ---

6. True Thrust
7. Vorpal Thrust

--- Pop Power Surge in between GCD here (it lasts 10 seconds and won't trigger until you use Jump) ---

8. Full Thrust

--- Pop Life Surge in between GCD here ---

9. Jump

So with Blood for Blood and Power/Life Surge activated, your Jump will always land for a good 700-900 damage.

Jump has a potency of 200. Power Surge jacks that up to 300.

Full Thrust has a potency of 300.

Just use Life Surge with FT -- easier to remember and coordinate, and marginally better DPS due to animation timing.

People, please stop defending SE's crappy decision regarding the dragoon abilities. They already took away our Bard sub-class (which was a big nerf) and attempted to appease us by marginally lowering jump CDs. The fact is, our jumps often put us in harms way and sit on CD that makes them lackluster. Not to mention that the animations on them are much to long. A shorter CD, quicker animations and the ability to dodge AOEs while airborne are needed and would really put the icing on the cake for this job.

* Also, I would really love to see a jump that suspends you into the air for a short period time. Once in the air, a target marker appears on the ground that you can move around to indicate where you want to land. Hit the ability button again and you come crashing down for some serious damage (this ability has the right to be on a long CD). Just a last minute thought.

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Originally Posted by KujinRen

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Keep in mind that jump is off GCD, so using life surge and straight into jump is a waste. Something like this would probably suit you better:

6. True Thrust
--- Pop Power Surge in between GCD here (it lasts 10 seconds and won't trigger until you use Jump) ---
7. Vorpal Thrust
--- Pop Life Surge in between GCD here ---
8. Full Thrust
--- Pop Jump in between GCD here ---
9. Whatever's next

yeah, i'm not really sure what SE's train of thought was with a lot of the CD's in this game. there a few skills that just make no sense whatsoever to have CD's over like, 15-20 seconds (looking at you shoulder tackle, howling fist, and pretty much every DRG skill..). it just feels so whack playing a dragoon, having Jump (which isn't even their strongest attack without another CD!) be used so rarely. Dragoons ARE Jump, they should be able to use it so much more frequently. and it should definitely give immunity.

i've always just assumed that this kind of stuff is just a temporary solution and will be revisited later. Jump already did get it's CD reduced a bit in beta, so i could see them lowering it further. jump lacking immunity seems kind of like something they just ran out of time on and are working on a solution for. jump as is can be worked around with proper timing, but i'd be lying if i said it didn't feel horribly clunky and disjointed from the rest of the abilities.

I'd be satisfied if they just made the regular 40 second jump a gap closer like spineshatter. It roots us for way too long, and its not viable as a "ranged attack" anyway. And we could use a gap closer with a faster cooldown. Spineshatter's cooldown, I can understand being the length it is because of the stun effect. It would also be nice to have a gap closer without the stun effect, so I say just modify jump.