Even out aoe tank

Not trying to QQ here but if mrd/war can use flash shouldn't gld/pld get the same access to overpower? It just seems like it should be available to me.

We use an axe. You use a dagger.

Yes, buff Paladin even further, and make Warrior's biggest advantage over Paladin, AoE threat, a non-advantage.

While we're at it, I don't like how Warrior gets more Max HP from his tank stance. Let's give that to Paladin too.

Mark Primary Target, spaam Flash in your aggro Rotation and everything is fine.

and be happy, Paladin a endgame Tank, Warrior just Dungeon Tank....

I'd be okay with giving PLD a cross-class Overpower if you'd be okay with nerfing PLD TP down to 600 and removing Riot Blade.

Yes, please give PLD a 2H axe as well, while being able to hold a shield at the same time.

Again you are going too far. I play both I am not biased. Just seems like the right thing to do. Boil it down, pld more MIT lower Health, war less MIT higher hp. Pld hp regen cure, war a whole set of skills. Giving access to overpower is not that big a deal. I didn't ask for more dps or an axe or any of that BS. They have different tactics yes but have overpower on a pld helps in dungeons leading up to end game. Has no effect on end game content. Step back and think before jumping on the pld vs war bandwagon. I love both classes and as I said play both. Making sword oath make pld almost equal to war is retarded. War should always out dps a pld. Dagger vs 2h etc etc. still given all the elitist arguments aside if a class had aoe threat built in and can use another classes aoe threat than it is only fair to give the aoe threat to the other class.
All this idea would help is 4 man content. After that I am still a huge pld main(solo) war off(aoe) content guy

i can understand you, but do u understand also, IF PLD would have Overpowerd, then there is absolutly NO reason to use a warrior?

Progress Guild who try Bahamut Coil take only Paladin with it.

Why? cuz the "more" dmg doesnt matter from Warrior, but Warrior Need tons of more Heal, and so more MP from healer, thats the reason.

The bigger HP pool from Warrior is absolutly WAYNE. The First few seconds its nice to have bigger HP pool, but after that.... Warrior has no "Options" to Counter incoming dmg, because the selfheal its just a big bad joke. not more.

ps. sorry for my english, never got it in School in my past, and i learnd the most by my self.

Okay, your PLD is only 32, mines 31 so not much difference. I've tank up to Haukke Manor and have no issue with tanking groups.
Tell me why do you think overpower is necessary for you?

Heck, I wish my Warrior's flash has a freaking blind effect on it, not to mention after a few flash and I'm out of MP.
Look at our traits since you have a MRD as well. Does any traits boots or adds effect to overpower?

That's why I don't know why you want more for PLD, especially on the AoE part, which is not that important.

No worries dude your English is fine. I get you. Just seems off to me. I have many issues with both classes. War should get a bit of a buff towards self heal just as much as pld should get a bit more aoe tank. I am a tank... In every game ever made. I just want this thread to be about pld gaining a bit more aoe pre end game. I find it pointless to play pld vs war pre end game at the moment. That's my beef. At end game I am actually happy the way things are. I am sorry the post wow days annoy me. End game in ffxiv is exactly how I want it. But pre-end bugs me. I want to tank pre-end as well as a war. I want to be a pld. That's who I am. In the very core of my being I am a pld. In end game I can be that pld and be happy. Pre-end game I am not

The reason that PAL doesn't get Overpower is pretty simple: they get Riot Blade (and way more mp to boot). For a WAR, Flash allows 3 uses before you run out (it also doesn't bring the Blind effect along, but the Blind is pretty mediocre considering resists). For a PAL, you can spam for a good long while before your MP finally gets low enough that you have to use Riot Blade to bolster it. On top of that, Overpower is *really* expensive and has a cost that uses the primary resource pool instead of the secondary resource pool: Flash spam on a PAL still lets you tank like a champ for the next 15 minutes (and, if you want to just use Riot Blade and get back MP, you can go right back to Flash spamming pretty quickly); Overpower spam on a WAR, however, is going to make you stop attacking and just stand there for a while to get TP back.

I still have no idea why people seem to think that PAL has AoE threat issues. Yes, WAR can generate more over a short period of time than a PAL can using just their AoE, but the WAR AoE is *way* more expensive, substantially more expensive than the increased effectiveness would account for. Leveling my PAL, I've had fewer problems than I did on my War, mainly because Flash is *so* much easier to use than Overpower. Sure, you can't just Flash spam and expect to have all of the threat in the universe, but, just like a WAR (who would run out of TP really quickly), you're not supposed to just spam your AoE: you're supposed to use your AoE 1-2 times and then swap over to ST threat combos while cycling through targets (combo attack #1 and #2 on the off targets and #3 on the kill target will pretty much guarantee you threat on everything).

Warriors are garbage as it is. At least let them keep some advantage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MissE

Heck, I wish my Warrior's flash has a freaking blind effect on it, not to mention after a few flash and I'm out of MP.
Look at our traits since you have a MRD as well. Does any traits boots or adds effect to overpower?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kitru

WAR can generate more over a short period of time than a PAL can using just their AoE, but the WAR AoE is *way* more expensive, substantially more expensive than the increased effectiveness would account for.

---

Quoted for the Greater Truth.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiteless

Warriors are garbage as it is. At least let them keep some advantage.

---

this

people saying warrior isn't viable endgame is bad enough as it is. i don't want a tanking class that's just there for cross class skills.

Paladin AoE threat is fine, learn to rotate your skills better. Sure its not on par with Warrior AoE threat but there is supposed to be diversity between the classes.

Its not that warrior is garbage per se... its more like SE underestimated how much of a difference %dmg reduced is compared to simple effective health. They never let us test really high content so it seemed alright at lower levels. However if a pld and a war get hit for 8k (hear it happens when you get b.coil turn 4 and above) suddenly 20% dmg reduced is more effective and those oh sh** buttons (which already make our laughable self healing seem like crap) become even more godly. Let us atleast have the one thing that we aren't bad at.

u got me straight rollin dog

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiteless

Warriors are garbage as it is. At least let them keep some advantage.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by saber_alter

this

people saying warrior isn't viable endgame is bad enough as it is. i don't want a tanking class that's just there for cross class skills.

---

*sigh* Y'all are so short sighted.

Giving PLD Overpower would be a good thing. PLDs lack decent AoE threat generation; yes, you can manage if you're good at it, but that doesn't change the fact that the class is lacking in that department.

Insisting that PLD should not receive this buff because WARs are presently under-powered is asinine. WARs will be buffed; it's going to happen, and when it does this argument will cease to exist, so why do you think it's relevant? Why do you want AoE threat generation to be the WAR advantage instead of just being a solid and effective tank in every situation with a different playstyle?

Take a deep breathe and think about more than just the immediate situation; this game is going to be around for years and years, and there will be dozens of patches and updates that will tweak around the stats of every class. A single buff to a class that is presently superior will not condemn another class to eternal mediocrity.

PLDs don't lack decent AoE threat generation. Their threat is similar to WAR except WAR can occasionally burst with a crit whereas PLD has better sustained.

Like I said early in the thread, I'd be fine with giving PLD's cross-class Overpower if PLD's would be fine with the removal of Riot Blade and reducing max TP down to 600.

Reminds me of the stun thread where PLDs want their stun's CD increased to 30 in exchange for no GCD. They think it'll be the same as WAR stun, except they don't realize WAR stun takes 3x longer to activate.

The point is it is frustrating leveling having one aoe enmity vs 2 when 90% of the dps in groups doesn't have the brain power to stay on marked targets, aoe slept adds etc. flash is not enough

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Toranja

We use an axe. You use a dagger.

---

Give us Fan of Knives then. Cone AOE that has 120 degrees coverage and hits as far as 30 meters! Yay!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Virin

The point is it is frustrating leveling having one aoe enmity vs 2 when 90% of the dps in groups doesn't have the brain power to stay on marked targets, aoe slept adds etc. flash is not enough

---

Not at all. Paladins have the supreme upper hand here in leveling content. We are the only class in the game that can build enmity safely on sleeping mobs. You see those Marauders crying in the corner? Yes some of them even though about investing in PIE.

Flash is not enough on active mobs, but more than enough on sleeping mobs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Virin

The point is it is frustrating leveling having one aoe enmity vs 2 when 90% of the dps in groups doesn't have the brain power to stay on marked targets, aoe slept adds etc. flash is not enough

---

If you seriously think that having Overpower and Flash on a PAL rather than just Flash would somehow make a difference in your AoE threat generation, you really don't know what you're talking about. The only time it'd be useful is if you Flash spam so much that you run out of mp and still, somehow, need more AoE threat. Considering you can Flash spam a good 8+ times before you run out of mp, that's a *massive* edge case.

I also laugh that you somehow think that Flash is an automatic WAR additional. I've never had it on my bar. Ever. And I never needed it. I also never needed more than Flash on my PAL (and I pug a *crapton*). If you need more than *either* Flash or Overpower, it's not the people you're running with that don't know what they're doing.

You can have overpower if we get the 20% damage reduction, and all those other things that make the PLD, a PLD.

if you are having threat problems on adds as a pld, thn your not tanking right (no offense). here try the rotation i do. it keeps adds under control 95% of the time.

1. pull with shield lob of course, i like to do it with provoke sometimes because it has a greater distance than shield lob in case you want to pull specific enemy thats around other mobs that wont aggro.
2.(use circle of scorn if your lvl 50) thn fast blade initial target thn savage blade, follow with flash.
3. cycle to 2nd target and use rage of halone. thn fast blade. cycle to 3rd target and use savage blade followed by flash (use circle of scorn if off cd).
4. cycle to 4th target if there is one and continue on with rotation if not, thn cycle back to 1rst target. continue rotaion till all ads are dead.

this is a great rotation for multiple adds, i dnt recommend it for more then 4 adds, because the time it will take u to cycle to 5th add continuing rotation, u might loose hate, but it is doable so id say add a second flash jus incase.

Sure give PLD Overpower. But PLD will have to give WAR Rampart or just the Rage of Halone debuff on our Butchers Block. No reason to buff Paladin if you aren't buffing Warriors at the same time.

I..

Just don't see the necessity for this..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by castillle

Sure give PLD Overpower. But PLD will have to give WAR Rampart or just the Rage of Halone debuff on our Butchers Block. No reason to buff Paladin if you aren't buffing Warriors at the same time.

---

I'll grab Rampart.

I don't get why you're asking for overpower. I rarely ever use it as Warrior. Usually run in tomahawk, flash, butcher's block combo on 3 mobs. Done. If any mobs escape my aggro and run to healer, tomahawk again.

I think once you have Shield Oath at level 40, a good amount of your AoE enmity concerns will subside.

Anything beyond that may be on your party members not managing their enmity (e.g. Quelling Strikes before going AoE nuts) or having them stand near you to Cover them for two casts/vollies if they don't have Quelling Strikes. Or in the case of single target damage dealers, they should be assisting you on your target ideally if they want the fight to end with less resources concerned and without them taking hate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Virin

Not trying to QQ here but if mrd/war can use flash shouldn't gld/pld get the same access to overpower? It just seems like it should be available to me.

---

At 32, you do not have access to Shield Oath while a War has access to Defiance. Your flash is significantly less agro because it does not have the Shield Oath threat mod.

Shield swipe is front conal with an enmity modifier. Its weaker than overpower, but its still potent (and inflicits pacification).

Also, lol, pld can aoe tank just fine. It just takes a fair amount of target cycling. Its pretty much the only time PLD has to be active and really think about what to do (the rest of the time its just spam the same 5 buttons over and over and over and over and over and... oh wait yep still hitting rage of halone.)

Shield Swipe can't be AOE. I use it in a bunch of sleeped targets absolutely fine without waking any of them up.