Should I expect griefers on a regular basis at end-game?

I just finished my story quest and queued up from HM Ifrit. We pull, then apparently 1 of the tanks didn't properly interrupt some spell that caused to ranged to have to move or something. The WHM (Lady Yunalesca on Faerie) absolutely goes nuts and then says they're going to stop healing. After we wipe, they say that someone else should leave because they don't want the leaving debuff. We tried to pull it a few more times with 1 healer while this WHM just jumped around, but it didn't work out and the group disbanded

http://i.imgur.com/G2cZaei.jpg

Without a votekick system AND with a leaving debuff, SE seems to have created a perfect environment for griefers to get what they want. Does SE really care about this stuff or do they think that the playerbase will work itself out until only players like this person remain?

Yeah, you're more or less going to see players like that everywhere.

With the influx of new players, there's going to be a lot of bad (and good) eggs.

And the people who said Duty Finder would lead to a bad community where called paranoid whiners.

Lets get in a voting/reputation system.

Would removing her from the party give her the debuff? Cuz that's the first thing I would have done... If that is possible. If not, then SE needs to implement a party kick feature or some such.
Alternatively, they can also add the penalty to everyone that rage quits.

Generally in my experience playing MMOs there are two types of terrible healers:

The first type just quietly sucks at their job but the second type of terrible healer throws a diva tantrum when they are faced with a situation they are not skilled enough to handle. You encountered terrible healer type #2.

I remember her. wasn't she a delightful little troll.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

And the people who said Duty Finder would lead to a bad community where called paranoid whiners.

Lets get in a voting/reputation system.

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They are, because this went on in games without finders. Take off the rose colored glasses, and remember what it was really like. In all my runs i've had two bad encounters. Way more enjoyable ones. I can also see a vote/rep system being terribly abused. Free company picks up some pugs on runs, if the pug wins gear, vote him down. Not fully geared? Vote down. Etc.

have to keep in mind that the pendulum swings both ways though.
Like i had a tank today that couldn't hold hate from healing so blames me for healing too much and rags on me until i slow down and now he's yelling at me for purposely trying to let him die, which never happened to begin with, then starts threatening and rallying the other people to report me to GM and get me banned which is one of the things, in my opinion, that is just not tolerable so i open up a GM ticket to report him and he starts trying to die on top of me with mobs just to kill me too.
and so on and so on. Ending up with him saying he talked to a GM and grats on my ban, as though the GMs skipped a thousand tickets to get right on his within a minute, then ditches the instance

And much like LoL, one bad person will just tear into someone else to the point they are at a rage and then that person is just on the breaking point and ready to rage and it spreads like ripples in a pond.

Someone giving you a bad time could very well be the nastiness and hate from 10 people before that just translates through the duty finder from person to person because most aren't experienced enough to just back off and let it go like myself

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Originally Posted by rabbitzero

They are, because this went on in games without finders. Take off the rosssssse colored glasssssssessssss, and remember what it was really like.

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Don't give me that. I've played all sorts of MMOs. On a single server you tend to gain a reputation. Hell, you could even see it in 1.0.

I am pretty sure I am category #1. I am just generally bad at everything. So long as I can have fun doing it, that is all that matters I think.

But too many people forget that it is okay for people who aren't perfect to play this game. I am running into it more and more the higher the level I go. Not even directed at me per-se. Just this general seething rage that every run isn't perfect and impossibly short.

I saw it just today, where a DPS kept ranting about the tank. Sure the tank wasn't exactly great, but so what? We finished, under time limit, with only 3 KO's. It was fun, and isn't that the point of the game?

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Lets get in a voting/reputation system.

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I like the sound of this, not sure how it would be implemented. But on the other side I can see how it can be abused as well by people. Someone whose good and happens to upset griefers and they down vote the good person.

And before anyone says anything this kind of stuff is in RL, look at the celebrities, everyone knows whose crazy nice or an A-hole. Its all over the internet.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

snip*

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It's a great idea on paper, but in reality it doesn't really work that well. I think Zero makes a very realistic and valid point. People will abuse reputation features, leaderboards, etc. Not to mention people who know how to utilize data tamper tools. Someone doesn't like you for what ever reason your reputation just went out the window.

For example, go take a look at the BF3 leaderboards. You really think people have 3.6 million meter headshots? No, they just used data tampering and wrote in some absurd numbers. Same thing can and most likely will happen here should a reputation system be implemented. You would have to make a pretty sophisticated system in order for such a feature to work the way it was meant to be used. I like the idea and would love to see it, but it's too bad people will inevitably abuse such a feature.

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Originally Posted by Rivienne

I am pretty sure I am category #1. I am just generally bad at everything. So long as I can have fun doing it, that is all that matters I think.

But too many people forget that it is okay for people who aren't perfect to play this game. I am running into it more and more the higher the level I go. Not even directed at me per-se. Just this general seething rage that every run isn't perfect and impossibly short.

I saw it just today, where a DPS kept ranting about the tank. Sure the tank wasn't exactly great, but so what? We finished, under time limit, with only 3 KO's. It was fun, and isn't that the point of the game?

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Not trying to justify the people who rage and such, but not everyone has the same idea of fun. You might be ok with how the run turned out, but someone else may not. That's part of the problem. People go into an instance with certain expectations, or lack of them. But then they refuse to accept or compromise with people who have different ones.

And not directly related to the topic at hand, but about Ifrit. Not enough people realize that even with a single Paladin Bashing Eruptions, no one else interfering, there are times you will hit DR and one will get through. They also realize even less, that the fight is a 1 tank fight, and you would normally have to dodge eruptions anyways. And it's actually pretty simple to do, even with the clustered ones after the nails.

No thanks on the voting/reputation system. These same grievers will be voting everyone down for no reason, and rabbitzero made some good points as well.

I'd be happy with a vote-to-kick though, although people will abuse that too.

Yeah expect it. About 20% of the players are absolutely vile. That being said there are a lot of nice players out there, but I rarely see anyone standing up to these players or defending people who are being bullied/heavily criticized . I say we need more white knights.

Love the game, hate the players. (generally)

Maybe endgame players are too serious about gaming.

Remember when people used to play video games to relax and have fun?

I'd like to know when exactly some folks decided being an elitist jerk who speed runs everything and pretends to be flawless was "fun".

If that's your idea of fun, you've got the wrong idea..

"OMG WHY CANT U DO IT FLAWLESSLY EVERY TIME AND RUSH WHILE YOUR AT IT??"

Fun...

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Originally Posted by Asael

Foom*

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What do you think would be a better alternative?
People really like the convenience of the duty finder, but without any accountability, anyone an come in and just be an ass without major consequence.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

What do you think would be a better alternative?
People really like the convenience of the duty finder, but without any accountability, anyone an come in and just be an ass without major consequence.

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Don't really know, man. I wish I had an answer for you, but yes I agree. It would be nice if we could hold people accountable for being schmucks, but that's just the world we live in I guess. The best thing I can think of for people to do is to get into a decent ls/fc that tailors to that individual and group together. If you do that and find the right group for you the things others say and do won't really matter anymore. Wish I had a better answer than this, but I don't. You know the saying, an average person + an audience + anonymity = total f*#kwad.

Was doing a Meridianum run earlier, and had a friendly Summoner in the party named Misatox Auralise (A FC Master on Diabolos) showing displeasure over the paladin watching cut scenes. :)

Now, if someone is impatient and chooses to use duty finder to play with random people, they basically lose their right to complain when they get grouped up with someone who hasn't gone through a dungeon yet. If they want to rush through everything, they should just stick with their own friends or look for people on their own server.

I'd very much like not to have jerks in the party, but with Duty Finder, I take my chances as well.

http://i.imgur.com/K0R39AS.jpg

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Originally Posted by PennBlackacre

SE seems to have created a perfect environment for griefers to get what they want.

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They did that with Duty finder in itself no vote-kick or leaving debuff will stop people from being morons when there are no social implications to deal with. You want a relatively less drama ridden experience wait for the party board to search for server side groups that way you know if someone is a totall asshat you can be assured word will get around to not party with said player so they are more inclined to not be as such.

Want a even better time? Get a free company with some friends and never worry about drama ever again...mostly.

someone make a wall of shame website already. the groupfinder only picks people from so many servers (I think it's 5-6 or something?), so word WILL spread. maybe not as fast as on a single server, but it will spread.

ps: I probably should have mentioned, there of course should be evidence always. screenshots or maybe videos. and one person complaining obviously shouldn't be enough to really brand a player bad ;)

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Originally Posted by ispano

You might be ok with how the run turned out, but someone else may not. That's part of the problem. People go into an instance with certain expectations, or lack of them. But then they refuse to accept or compromise with people who have different ones.

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... Which is what I said. It is okay for people who aren't perfect at it to play this game. Anyone who thinks otherwise shouldn't be jumping in with random strangers in the first place, and then raging at them.

The DF will always be full of people who aren't as good as you, maybe don't have great strategy, perhaps enjoy fighting every monster/piece of trash, maybe even wipe a lot and find that hilariously funny (there was that group of drunk boys I found myself with in Halatali....). So it is not on anyone else to play the way you like. It is on you to do your best to find a way to enjoy the situation you get put in. If you can't... You shouldn't be in the DF in the first place because it isn't fun for you or anyone you run with when you start raging.

Just wait for all the WoW kiddies to blow through all the content in a month and then leave. IT will get much better.

For those wanting a rep system, it's largely going to be where you have the option to play with people on your own World.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Addition of a party recruitment window
We'll be implementing a bulletin board type of system where you can recruit party members that are only on your world. When recruiting, you can indicate the dungeon you would like to do, the roles you are looking to recruit, the levels, etc. (We'll be announcing the details soon.)

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This is scheduled to arrive after 2.1.

Source

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Originally Posted by Goufunaki

http://i.imgur.com/K0R39AS.jpg

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He is a perfect example of Hypocracy. Kind of like a "certain group" of people thats become trendy to support these days. Its fine to disagree with people and move on with your life and not crucify people because of how they think or feel.

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Originally Posted by RynaultB

He is a perfect example of Hypocracy. Kind of like a "certain group" of people thats become trendy to support these days. Its fine to disagree with people and move on with your life and not crucify people because of how they think or feel.

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With all respect, I don't support people who wish to watch the cutscenes because it's trendy or whatnot. I do so because it's my honest opinion that the team put work into these cutscenes, they are part of the world's lore and are generally a nice way to dive into the game as one should. I would never even think of it as rude when someone want to watch them and thus enjoy the dungeon as it was meant to be ejoyed. I do however understand those who tire of watching them, or simply don't want to, but to call someone rude for feeling otherwise is rude in itself.

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Originally Posted by sirdayne

For those wanting a rep system, it's largely going to be where you have the option to play with people on your own World.



This is scheduled to arrive after 2.1.

Source

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That's great! Can't wait for a single server party system.
Right now, spamming /shout for a party is anything but ideal. And let's not even mention the disaster that is the duty finder.

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Originally Posted by sirdayne

For those wanting a rep system, it's largely going to be where you have the option to play with people on your own World.



This is scheduled to arrive after 2.1.

Source

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This has made my day! I didn't know such feature was in the works.

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Originally Posted by Leowilde

Snip

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I guess I need to make myself a little more clear I'm for people watching CSs the Devs put them there for a purpose. I was saying the guy in the chat log saying you need to be patient and watch them in the Inn was being hypocritical. I always watch the CSs the first time and never try to push people to skip.

What I was trying to point out is a certain group of people in RL choose to live their lifestyle a certain way and expect people to accept it. And that they are highly intolerant of anyone with a differing opinion to theirs.

Basically what I'm saying is live and let live.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

And the people who said Duty Finder would lead to a bad community where called paranoid whiners.

Lets get in a voting/reputation system.

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Multi-server duty finders *always * make it hard to create a decent game community. No surprise here. No consequences for poor behaviour, no reputation risks, impossible to report people to their FC leaders.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

What do you think would be a better alternative?
People really like the convenience of the duty finder, but without any accountability, anyone an come in and just be an ass without major consequence.

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Easy. Make it world specific.

....... SE please put /tell back in because being "mean" is the most bullsh*t excuse, view this whole thread and millions more like it as to why.

To OP, yes expect it, and honestly your chat you got off light, I've seen worse from people grabbing mobs and MPK, even in CM, people fighting because cannons die and then someone grabs boss and locks himself in the room and because the boss does NO FKING DMG, he just /sits there. So we're forced to leave as hes gone afk.

"Only" level 40 so far but all the people I've played with duty finder have been friendly, no idiots yet, but I'm sure I'll eventually run in to some. Some kind of a reputation system would be fine in my opinion, but only in case that one can only recommend (or something like that) other players. If players were able to give negative points to other players that might quickly lead to abuse...
But, I'd guess after the first month is over the worst of the bunch will leave the game and the situation will improve.

This is what happens when you set your priorities on designing the game for duty finder first, and same-server/FC/LS groups second. Backwards priorities from SE, and DF shouldn't be usable for end game content, but, here we have it, anonymous COD/MOBA/FPS match making for end game challenging content in a genre that was born on it's social interaction, grouping, friendship, and bonds between players.

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Originally Posted by rabbitzero

They are, because this went on in games without finders. Take off the rose colored glasses, and remember what it was really like. In all my runs i've had two bad encounters. Way more enjoyable ones. I can also see a vote/rep system being terribly abused. Free company picks up some pugs on runs, if the pug wins gear, vote him down. Not fully geared? Vote down. Etc.

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It was far less common in games without it because Duty Finders, especially cross world (realm) lets you be a complete jerk without repercussion unless you happen to be on the same world. In XI for example, you had your share, but those people usually end up hopping servers or getting ran off a server for their behavior it wasn't tolerated.

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Originally Posted by FutanXIV

No thanks on the voting/reputation system. These same grievers will be voting everyone down for no reason, and rabbitzero made some good points as well.

I'd be happy with a vote-to-kick though, although people will abuse that too.

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Good point like, although maybe if they incorporated a reputation system directly into the vote-to-kick feature that would work well. So if you get kicked by a vote you lose a reputation point. Maybe make upvotes-only optional at the end of a run, so if other guys thought you were really good they could upvote you individually as a little bonus. That would prevent griefers dropping your rep for their amusement but still affect them when they screwed up and ruined a party. Vote-to-kick is way harder for individual trolls to abuse because you need the agreement of the rest of your party

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Originally Posted by waycool

"Only" level 40 so far but all the people I've played with duty finder have been friendly, no idiots yet -snip-.

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I hope so, I seem to be attracting these people like moths to a flame, I should write a diary of every troll I get and sell it as a fully fledged novel or have specific quote and sell it as a joke book, hard to decide really.

On a more serious note have a vote to kick feature with possible reputation scores. Or have a lobby where people can make parties and specifics say in the description "first time, speed run, experienced only etc etc" so people wanting to speed run can speed run, people who want story can find people doing it for story.

I have seen vote to kick features gone awry in the past with 2 trolls joining together and kicking legitimate players out, maybe have the whole party's say? Still doesn't stop 4 trolls joining and picking on that one poor player.

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Originally Posted by Goufunaki

Was doing a Meridianum run earlier, and had a friendly Summoner in the party named Misatox Auralise (A FC Master on Diabolos) showing displeasure over the paladin watching cut scenes. :)

Now, if someone is impatient and chooses to use duty finder to play with random people, they basically lose their right to complain when they get grouped up with someone who hasn't gone through a dungeon yet. If they want to rush through everything, they should just stick with their own friends or look for people on their own server.

I'd very much like not to have jerks in the party, but with Duty Finder, I take my chances as well.

http://i.imgur.com/K0R39AS.jpg

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Cut-scene crusaders piss me off beyond belief. The summoner was right, watch that stuff in the inn on your own time. Don't hold up the instance.

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Originally Posted by PennBlackacre

I just finished my story quest and queued up from HM Ifrit. We pull, then apparently 1 of the tanks didn't properly interrupt some spell that caused to ranged to have to move or something. The WHM (Lady Yunalesca on Faerie) absolutely goes nuts and then says they're going to stop healing. After we wipe, they say that someone else should leave because they don't want the leaving debuff. We tried to pull it a few more times with 1 healer while this WHM just jumped around, but it didn't work out and the group disbanded

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Sorry you had to deal with the scum from our server. Thank you for informing of this delinquent so that I can add her to my Blist.