Help with Garuda HM please (Off tank)

Hello,

im having hard times getting Hate from the red Sister.
How can i build enough Hate quick enough to keep her attention on me?

I tried all my skill, but after few seconds one of the Healers get the hate.
Just spamming Flash didnt work, and the dmg rotation wont work aswell...some ppl already blamed me for not beeing able to keep hate.

Just like to say I have yet to do Garuda hard so I am attacking this problem mechanically not from experience.

Ok so the hate stack is effected heavily by regen (possible bug not sure havent checked starting to think its front loaded so the whm gains all the enmity of the potential heals immedately as one with the buff enters the enmity list) so once that inital hit puts you on the listing try provoking to match you with the healers emnity then combo to butcher's and with a little luck (and skill speed) butchers will hit before the next tick allowing you to follow up with flash and stack the deck in your favor of keeping you at the top. Also try opening with overpower to see how it sets you. That has the most effect in a single use instance for war because flash is boosted by the gld passive and war counterpart to that is overpower so while it will delay you from getting to butcher's it will rise you on the enmity chart much higher then the dmg from heavy swing.

I've seen this happen when you've got healers spamming medica as the red-tether runs in. Shield Lob/Tomahawk + Flash and just start comboing the shit out of it. Save Provoke for a few seconds or the AoE heal/regen will instantly overcome the provoke.

I find this to be a bigger issue with DF groups than FC runs. When I first ran it with my FC, no issues at all with healers nabbing hate on add. When I OT'd for a random shout group.... WHM was goin nuts with hate on the adds.

wait at the edge of tornado， provoke-》starts to smash fast blade button, make sure it hits, then chase her and finish the combo, then your hate should be above healers, run back to the edge, range attack->flash, another fast blade combo.

try not to use flash too much, it gives less hate comparing to healers AOE spam.

Every guide says something different and most don't cover what the tanks should be doing enough.

Does the off tank take both adds? Or just one.

If they only take one, what happens to the other?

Every god damn group I go in tell's me the tactics differently, I just cant take both adds at once, before people start dying its really hard.

What we've done the last few times is OT grabs the red-tether add, and dps blows up green-tether. Think of the field as a triangle, tank in one corner with garuda, OT in corner 2 with red-tether, rest of group in corner 3.

Could become problematic if your group isn't up to snuff though, I don't know how hard the add hits DPS.

I've been off tanking garuda lately and pretty much the green add does not need to be picked up at all since it should be up for 10s maximum with all the dps switching to it and blowing it up. Your role as the offtank is to pickup the red add which usually is able to be picked up with ease via using provoke-> tomahawk/shield lob until in range -> Enmity combo.

You can pickup both adds if you REALLY want to, although this is only possible if one add spawns next to you allowing you to put out an enmity combo then do the above on the other add.

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Originally Posted by Lucavern

What we've done the last few times is OT grabs the red-tether add, and dps blows up green-tether. Think of the field as a triangle, tank in one corner with garuda, OT in corner 2 with red-tether, rest of group in corner 3.

Could become problematic if your group isn't up to snuff though, I don't know how hard the add hits DPS.

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Originally Posted by Pavise

I've been off tanking garuda lately and pretty much the green add does not need to be picked up at all since it should be up for 10s maximum with all the dps switching to it and blowing it up. Your role as the offtank is to pickup the red add which usually is able to be picked up with ease via using provoke-> tomahawk/shield lob until in range -> Enmity combo.

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This is really helpful, Thanks :)

Update:

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Originally Posted by Pavise

You can pickup both adds if you REALLY want to, although this is only possible if one add spawns next to you allowing you to put out an enmity combo then do the above on the other add.

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Works like a charm :) now I can tank both easy

Another tip to help out is ask the MT usually a paladin, to flash the mob next to him once then focus back on gurada herself. It isn't hard for him, and he won't have to deal with agro long because either it will be the green or the red, and either the dps or you will grab the mob based on the color. It almost completely gets rid of the possibility that the healers will get attacked. And the best part is no provoke is required.

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Originally Posted by GinsterUnit

Does the off tank take both adds? Or just one.

If they only take one, what happens to the other?

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Every group I've been in has had DD burn the green add ASAP, because it heals Garuda. I can tell you that I'll be popping all my CDs to burn her faster, and I'm sure you've experienced the joy of having a BRD go all out when you haven't gotten aggro yet. Just grab red; we'll be done with green momentarily. :)

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Originally Posted by GinsterUnit

Every guide says something different and most don't cover what the tanks should be doing enough.

Does the off tank take both adds? Or just one.

If they only take one, what happens to the other?

Every god damn group I go in tell's me the tactics differently, I just cant take both adds at once, before people start dying its really hard.

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Honestly, you don't even need an off tank. It would probably be easier with just a MT and 5 dps. The OT is dead weight for 90% of the fight, and only matters for about ~ minute total, but honestly doesn't matter because there is basically no way to out aggro the healers in that phase.

Best bet is to have people a) spread out, b) don't stand in their slipstream, and just chase down that red add. As soon as it spawns lob a shield and try a rage of halone, if that doesn't get it provoke and shield lob if it's out of range. Then go into your threat combo.

Here is what I do and rarely have problems keeping hate.

1 As soon as Garuda teleports, I use Fight or Flight. (i'm under shield oath ofc)
2 I target Red Clone and spam shield lob until she's in range.
3 I place her so she doesn't face the party
4 I use Halone combo and in between each GCD attack, I place Spirit Within and Circle of Scorn
5 I flash then Halone combo until she dies. Sometimes I don't even flash if hate is fine.

A few things can happen.
You can lose her or you might not get her at all at start because of healers' built hate. Then all you need to do is Provoke > Shield lob > Halone combo

Despite all that you might lose hate anyway. So be it. You can't always compete against healers spamming their cures and medicas.
If you party is smart, they'll avoid her cleave and your second healer will heal the healer who is in trouble.

Here's a video I made a couple of weeks ago on exactly this, it's not perfect but it might help

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHw_ECL182s

To be honest offtank is not needed for this fight, a whm can tank both adds just fine, but you can at least try to tank them and should be able to tank 1 every time just fine.

After she breaks the rocks, go defiance. Do 3 combos on her to build a full 5 stacks then spam heavy swing for the rest of the time. Once garuda disappears, pop every single mitigation/dps cooldown you have. Foresight, Featherfoot, internal Release, and most importantly, unchained and berserk. As soon as the add spawns, skull sunder and butcher block(This effectively pastes the add to you) it while running to the edge of the center tornado. Your GCD should be up by the time you read the edge so heavy swing the add again. The loose add should be heading for your healers so provoke it(make sure not to provoke garuda, it usually takes 2 tabs but may differ depending on your tanking position) once its in your little tornado free quadrant and skull sunder-> butcher block. Berserk will be down about now so flash twice. Now you're just tanking.

For the next add phase, I just make sure to have the buff maim up when garuda disappears. No point having full stacks as unchained is down. The adds spawn at the east and west. Go stand at the east of west edge of the circle and pop cooldowns when Garuda disappears. Tomahawk twice while running to the other add/your healer, heavy swing the add once then provoke skullsunder -> butcher block the other. Build a bit more agro on the add you tomahawked then you're just tanking like normal.

Hope that helps.

What works for me...

1 add spawns at party.. 1 Far away.

If one at party is red, its basic, if far away one...

Healers are gaining emnity over you as it comes to the group.

So.. To battle this..

Use Fast blade on the one that spawns in the group or close.

Right when the red one is about to get there Provoke -->> Complete Emnity Combo and your set.

Is there a reason why anyone would start with provoke? Considering it's mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Tanaya

Is there a reason why anyone would start with provoke? Considering it's mechanics.

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It can happen that the mob is in range for provoke but not for shield lob, so you use the former to "claim" the mob and make it close the gap to you and enter Shield Lob's range. It's risky in a fight with bouncy aggro like this one though.

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Originally Posted by Kenka

It can happen that the mob is in range for provoke but not for shield lob, so you use the former to "claim" the mob and make it close the gap to you and enter Shield Lob's range. It's risky in a fight with bouncy aggro like this one though.

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I've mentioned in other threads that I see very little reason in these situations not to let a ranged DD go ahead and pull, then provoke off of them. At least that way the Provoke is doing something.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

I've mentioned in other threads that I see very little reason in these situations not to let a ranged DD go ahead and pull, then provoke off of them. At least that way the Provoke is doing something.

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True, but depending on the group it's just easier to do everything yourself..

the best way to off tank the sisters imo is to have the healers/mages not burn any CD, cause the moment a whm does heals it will instantly go to that person. The off tank must pull the red and aim it towards the plumes and away from the party. Cause a cleaver can instantly wipe the party clean. While they handle green and kill it asap because yes it can heal garuda. If your party's dps isn't sufficient this fight can be bothersome, cause it will repeat that same phase over and over and over till you can kill it. But the role of the off tank is to grab hate asap and if you can't handle that, that fight will be a problem. I've done about maybe 30-40runs with this with my fc, to the point we just kill it before it even reaches the 3rd sisters.

Nothing you can do. A WHM spamming Medica II/Regen generates more threat than any Tank in the game.

You have to tell your Healer, to STOP FRICKING OVERHEALING.

Just do my first try on garuda hm and ...

Party insult me for 3 try.

I off tank, and don't understand why i can't keep red add on me.

At the 2 try i say: plz stop big heal and burst dps when adds spawn just let me 10sec for generate threath on the red add.

Party respond: f... y.. u have ifrit weapon and ak gear let healer overheal and dps burst and do your job. Or go uninstall or over stupid remarks.

I come here and read that, ok so i have a good idea to say stop heal and burst when adds spawn ^^ just a bad party who can't understand how threath system works ^^

I would shield lob > prvoke> shield lob > into hate combo imo, I do this on my warrior and 0 probs but thats say its a warrior.

Tried but if you loose aggro (she go on healer) it's the wipe before she come back on you.

Provoke > Shield Throw > (repeat) RoH combo. Never lost hate on the red one ever, and have never seen another tank lose it either unless they die.

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Originally Posted by Tanaya

Is there a reason why anyone would start with provoke? Considering it's mechanics.

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Heal aggro + 1 during mob run over, shield lob after that should keep it off healer until it gets in range for RoH combos.

On the green add, we usually have our FC dragoon pick it up with some burst dps, but that's more of a happy accident of him being relic geared than a legit strategy. I think he might have something that boosts aggro though, not sure. If so legit!

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Originally Posted by Tanaya

Is there a reason why anyone would start with provoke? Considering it's mechanics.

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Provoke has longer range than any other ability pld has. You can hit it with provoke at max range as it's moving towards the group, be the #1 target on it's hate list, and then immediately follow up with shield throw as it moves into range, and now you're well ahead of the aggro from everyone else.