Most Complex DPS Class

So I'm curious, what is everyone's opinion on which DPS class is the most complex and/or difficult to play to maximum potential? I've been told that MNK might be it, but I'd like to hear a few more opinions on this.

I only have higher level experience with BLM, and they seem to be fairly straightforward. Fire 1 spam with firestarter proc, then blizzard 3 for mp, then back to fire spam, with occasional thunder usage. I'm looking for something a little more involved than that.

I've heard Drg is a lengthy rotation, but overall timing difficulty is on the Mnk.

SMN's DoT timing is really hard... re-apply them just in time is rly hard.

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Originally Posted by Arcana

SMN's DoT timing is really hard... re-apply them just in time is rly hard.

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Lol, you can't be serious...

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Originally Posted by Arcana

SMN's DoT timing is really hard... re-apply them just in time is rly hard.

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Quoting for laughs.

Monks most likely being the most complex along with Dragoons.

I swear if anyone says Bards...lol

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Originally Posted by savant07

Quoting for laughs.

Monks most likely being the most complex along with Dragoons.

I swear if anyone says Bards...lol

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Bard, timing pressing your macro with all of your instants on it with your heavy shot, and having the work all done for you is near impossible to stay awake for. ;)

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Originally Posted by RonPierce

Bard, timing pressing your macro with all of your instants on it with your heavy shot, and having the work all done for you is near impossible to stay awake for. ;)

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Bro do you even windbite? lol...I think I do but I can't remember if I put it in my macro <3

Complex to straightforward would probably be: Monk > Dragoon > Summoner (w/ pet management) > Black Mage > Bard

Monk is pretty complex to min/max. Haven't played the other jobs enough though

Dragoons have an extremely lengthy rotation with a lot of situational skills that can be used off the GCD.

We also have the lowest Magic Resistance (and most attacks that hit us are AOE magic attacks) so we have to be more careful in combat than other classes.
Also, poorly timed ablities such as timing Jump when an AOE attack pattern is on the ground also gets us killed.

As such, not only do we have complexity in doing our DPS, we also have complexity in staying alive. Many people frown upon Dragoons because they "die so much", but really we are just a difficult class to play that needs to know all enemy boss patterns so we know when to use our attacks.

A dragoon that is just pressing 1-2-3 is going to have such a substantially lower DPS that its clear they aren't doing enough damage. This also contributes to people thinking our DPS is low, because in order to do high damage as a Dragoon you need to be able to use not only your GCD rotation but your Off-GCD skills perfectly.

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Originally Posted by Arcana

SMN's DoT timing is really hard... re-apply them just in time is rly hard.

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ROFL..... This really made my day because he/she actually thinks it's true.

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Originally Posted by Arcana

SMN's DoT timing is really hard... re-apply them just in time is rly hard.

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I hope she is a troll, because that is just sad.

but I believe monk has the most difficulty keeping GL and DoTs up.

Honestly I do not get why they would make melee "harder" than range... They already have tons of aoe for melee to avoid, and jumps animation lock is a struggle enough. I am not bored, and that is a plus. I still wish they would fix jump, though.

Hoping they will drastically simplify the monk rotation, or at least some parts of it (GL upkeep for example) to give a little more quality of life. I'm all for challenging rotations and jumping through hoops while balancing an egg on a plate ontop of your nose but some fights like Titan hardmode simply don't forgive divided attention, and monk rotation divides the FCK out of your attention (I'm sure Dragoons are in the same boat).

tl;dr: Monk/Dragoon damage requires disproportionate effort to do the same damage or lower damage as Bards, later fights just don't forgive divided attention unless you're a robot.

I know, and ranged rotations are cake mode, they do not need to avoid as much, and put out equal damage. It has to be worse for you as a monk. At least dragoon looks amazing, monks got the bad end of the stick. :P

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Originally Posted by Zerosix

I know, and ranged rotations are cake mode, they do not need to avoid as much, and put out equal damage. It has to be worse for you as a monk. At least dragoon looks amazing, monks got the bad end of the stick. :P

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Really? I love the way monk gear looks, and I am not a huge lover of dragoon lances/polearms. To each their own, I guess.

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Originally Posted by Zerosix

I know, and ranged rotations are cake mode, they do not need to avoid as much, and put out equal damage. It has to be worse for you as a monk. At least dragoon looks amazing, monks got the bad end of the stick. :P

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I love how monks look. Atleast AF gear and relic.

But yeah the rotation is complicated enough that while learning fights my ability to min/max drops fairly substantially due to split second reactions needed to avoid mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Azunia

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How is it a troll?

SMN requires very strict timing due to the way the global DoT works, and due to the way RS interacts with DoTs. You have to take in consideration all animations and flight time to get maximum up time.

In addition to this, the starting rotation is fairly convoluted and any boss with add phases, or invulnerability phases, makes you have to pay attention and make judgement calls.

A boss is going to go invulnerable. Do you use Bio for more DPS, or Bio II for the longer duration? That depends, which will still let you use fester and how long is the phase? If Bio II will still be present after the invulnerability phase, then you only have 2 GCDs before your next fester. If not, or the timer will not be long enough, you should Bio.

Things like that are what make good summoners, and average ones.

That said, I will say it's much, much easier to be an average summoner than an average monk. You have to utilize movement to even be average on a monk, but once you have everything down it's not very hard.

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Originally Posted by Lany

Hard part about SMN dps if there are more than one or/and scholar use dots too. Have fun to find your dots espesially if you have hard time to see those slightly greenish counters on your dots.

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This, too. This will get fixed eventually, though.

Hard part about SMN dps if there are more than one or/and scholar use dots too. Have fun to find your dots espesially if you have hard time to see those slightly greenish counters on your dots.

MNK > BLM > SMN > DRG

I dunno where BRD fits, I haven't personally played it or looked at it enough. I believe it's somewhere between SMN and DRG.

DRG is intentionally designed to be simple and the easiest. They specifically said that was the case in the beta forums.

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Originally Posted by Crevox

MNK > BLM > SMN > DRG

I dunno where BRD fits, I haven't personally played it or looked at it enough. I believe it's somewhere between SMN and DRG.

DRG is intentionally designed to be simple and the easiest. They specifically said that was the case in the beta forums.

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did u ever play a DRG?

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Originally Posted by Tylia

did u ever play a DRG?

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Yes, all you have to do is upkeep debuffs/dots and buffs. Oh no. So hard.

http://i.imgur.com/u5JCxVz.png

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Originally Posted by Crevox

Yes, all you have to do is upkeep debuffs/dots and buffs. Oh no. So hard.

http://i.imgur.com/u5JCxVz.png

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keep that things up is way harder then freakin summoner dots or smth else. If boss is moving just 1 degree whole rotation is fucked up and u lack of dps then.

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Originally Posted by Crevox

Yes, all you have to do is upkeep debuffs/dots and buffs. Oh no. So hard.

http://i.imgur.com/u5JCxVz.png

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I dunno when their design changed, but DRG is definetly not the easiest or simplest of classes, i dont think its even possible to play it (competitive dps wise) on a controller. That image you linked is like the most basic the dragoon rotation can be, certainly wouldnt be competitive dps, it doesnt have a single off GCD skill or even one actual DRG skill, so im taking it as a joke.

For the OP question id say: MNK/DRG most complex and around the same. DRG has it a bit better because of how the fight works, even if it has a more complicated rotation it can be landed and can do its DPS, MNK has a very hard time keeping up, so they need to think fast. then Summoner, BMG, and bard.

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Originally Posted by Nemiros

I dunno when their design changed, but DRG is definetly not the easiest or simplest of classes, i dont think its even possible to play it (competitive dps wise) on a controller. That image you linked is like the most basic the dragoon rotation can be, certainly wouldnt be competitive dps, it doesnt have a single off GCD skill or even one actual DRG skill, so im taking it as a joke.

For the OP question id say: MNK/DRG most complex and around the same. DRG has it a bit better because of how the fight works, even if it has a more complicated rotation it can be landed and can do its DPS, MNK has a very hard time keeping up, so they need to think fast. then Summoner, BMG, and bard.

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Everyone has off GCD skills. Dragoon still has it the easiest of all of them, and the rotation is not very fast paced/not many decisions you have to make. The dragoons that say their rotation is hard has not dabbled in other classes very much.

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Originally Posted by Crevox

Everyone has off GCD skills. Dragoon still has it the easiest of all of them, and the rotation is not very fast paced/not many decisions you have to make. The dragoons that say their rotation is hard has not dabbled in other classes very much.

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and ofc u did :)

I dont think I can change your mind, and that is fine, its your opinion, but I do believe dragoon has the longest rotation, having an off GCD skill in between most skills and a very sensitive priority system. That being said, I hope you're right and they revisit the DRG and the MNK to make them simpler so that the positional requirements and extensive melee range aoe on bosses can be easier to be dealt with.

DRG is simple enough. The beta forum complaint people had was to make the more complex because they're too easy, and SE straight up said no because they're intentionally designed to be simple.

Melee is meant to have positional requirements and it's balanced around it. I don't melee too much, but my melee friends have no complaints about it (my MNK friend only complains about bosses like Titan that jump and cause a loss of greased lightning).

I dont complain either.

For me? It is fun to play DRG and i dont want them to make the rotation easier. I just said that its not simple and you just stood it that way, that there is nothing more simple than playing a DRG.

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Originally Posted by Tylia

like beta was about max lvl 38 and most of worth skills only came after that :D

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Beta phase 3/4. Legacy players were able to play Level 50 DRG.

I havnt really heard anyone say DRG is too easy until today. I guess if all the classes are like this, or harder, im going to have alot of fun lvling up all the classes. I do admit, i am using every single skill to maximize the dps, and try to stay on top of the DPS meter. might just be overworking it.

none of the DPS classes are REALLY hard, though it can be a massive PITA to keep greased lightning up on monk during some fights. it's rotation by itself isn't particularly difficult, a lot of the challenge comes from trying to weasel in as much boss uptime as you can to keep GL going. monk is the only job where i feel like i'm battling with the mechanics of the class and the boss at the same time.

ATM i'd probably rate it

MNK>DRG>SMN>BLM>BRD, i'd say mnk/drg are hardest because melee is generally going to be a bit more challenging than range due to fight mechanics -- though it definitely changes on certain fights. only reason i'd rate MNK a bit tougher than DRG is because GL is kind of cumbersome -- add a few seconds to the buff duration or make our gap closer have a lower CD and i'd say they're probably about equal.

They are all hard..excluding BRD way down the line. The only thing hard for a brd is realizing he has hate and forget what to do. As they get more songs it becomes more complex, but endgame, everything is complex and that's probably the only time brds actually stop being archers with a buff.

Mnks are disgusting as macros are not well tuned for them. They have to constantly realize their position, and their timers. Mnks also get shafted in a lot of cross class abilties, so they are left with some undesirable boss battles.

Drgs are very all rounder so they can do a lot of stuff, a lot. Unlike a mnk that only has one path in the battle (melee or melee) Drgs just have so many options, it can be overwhelming. This isn't to say you can't just be an average drg.

The good thing about drg is they can fall back to basics. Mnks never can, they are all manual.

Smn have to micro manage a lot. and the need to look at both sides of the screen(PC and enemy) since they have support, so they better use that support. But at least they don't have to deal with positioning.

Blm aren't that hard, but unless you gotta good tank/healer, they have great stress to CC and backup support. One weak link, and the blm falls apart. they're like the smn in that they have to look at all sides of the screen.

I put them all roughly equal in difficulty, though I wouldn't say drg is hard, because drgs can do the basics and still get away with it.

Mnk/BLM/SMN of you do the minimum, it's a big risk to the pt. They are damage jobs that if you play drunk, the party has a high risk if crapping out.

If you have a super healer and tank, ya it makes life easier, but that doesn't happen often, so someone has to take up slack where they can.

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Originally Posted by Crevox

MNK > BLM > SMN > DRG

I dunno where BRD fits, I haven't personally played it or looked at it enough. I believe it's somewhere between SMN and DRG.

DRG is intentionally designed to be simple and the easiest. They specifically said that was the case in the beta forums.

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This is a joke right? I'm guessing you haven't seen how long a Full rotation on a DRG is, simple to play sure, NOT simple to use effectively. If a DRG isn't dancing around his target every 10 seconds or so he's doing it wrong.

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Originally Posted by Medivan25

This is a joke right? I'm guessing you haven't seen how long a Full rotation on a DRG is, simple to play sure, NOT simple to use effectively. If a DRG isn't dancing around his target every 10 seconds or so he's doing it wrong.

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That's not very complicated compared to what other classes have to think about or go through. The lancer has to move around, but the ability rotation is a very simple priority system. It's like a baby noob version of MNK.

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Originally Posted by Kevee

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I fully understand the playstyle of Summoner from different friends on how they perform in Primal battles and dungeons. Their Dots are critical, but their problem is keeping dps up with other classes like brd and blm.I've seen plenty of professional summoners and I never think for a second on them complaining about Dots. Ever. Its just something they get used to.

Monk class on the other hand which is the main class I enjoy is a bit more of a different playstyle and much more difficult. I personally have no problems with dps or positioning, but the primal bosses make it difficult to keep DoTs and GL up to perform maximum dps(Like Teleporting and jumping for ifrit and Titan). Even 5 seconds is more than enough to bring any mnk dps to drop like a brick. Of course you have PB to quickly recover, but lets face it. The GCD and individual skill cooldowns is just ridiculous for it. I love mnk no matter what shape its in, but I believe monks skills do need a re-evaluation as well as summoner.

Go loo kin the other thread at the math. For min-maxing, DRG has about a 27 GCD non-repeating rotation. The problem people are seeing as to how they can say, " DRG isn't hard. " Is because it only has 2 abilities that are stuck on the positional requirements. Granted if you don't land those 2, then you're dps drops like a rock, but all the abilities chained after don't require the positionals, just to be chained. This still requires dancing around the boss and can screw you in a high mobility fight; Not as much as it screws over monks though.

And saying DRG has the easiest off GCD abilities is laughable. The longest animations that lock you in, so if you time it right and an aoe opens up under your feet. Well too bad, dead dps.

Lots of bard hate in this piece. They're not as simple as you guys make it out to be, there is complexity to them at 50. You guys make it sound brain dead.

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Originally Posted by ChanceSkeleton

Lots of bard hate in this piece. They're not as simple as you guys make it out to be, there is complexity to them at 50. You guys make it sound brain dead.

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Because they are braindead, especially with the BL/Me macros :P

Bard

Somebody is requesting a song -> play desired song (singing is like casting. You have to stand still for a few seconds. Easy to get hit by aoes)
Healer's MP is low -> mage's ballad with battle voice
Damage needs to be reduced -> rain of death
Black mage in the party -> foe's requiem, possibly with battle voice
Ballad is up and healer has plenty of MP -> turn off ballad
Straight shot isn't up -> straight shot
Dots aren't up -> venomous bite and windbite
Crit proc is up -> straight shot critical
Everything is up -> macro spam

You also need to stay close to people you're singing for. In case they keep moving too far away. >_> Many healers don't seem to realize if they move too far away, my song stops working for them.

Well timed swift songs can speed up dungeons by a good bit. If you're going for speed. Swiftsong is only a tad slower than sprinting.

It certainly isn't the most complex class but there's more to it than people think.