I started out as a gladiator and moved on to pally. Have had no complaints what so ever when it comes to tanking. ive gotten that role so now i want to start up another.
ive decided i wanted to either be a scholar or a summoner.
filling the tank roll has my curiosity of a healer roll, but also the damage over time abilities of the arcanist class in general has me interested in dps as well. that and they use books... friggen awesome.
in any case, im currently getting thm to 26 so i can get swift cast. Can someone explain to me in detail the dps rotation and what aetherflow actually does?
Also some info on pet control would be helpful too.
also - can scholars really use cleric stance??? (wrong thread area i know, but posting limitations you see.)
any help would be grealty appreciated
sorry about the noob questions...
thanks in advance.
anyone have ACN/SMN/SCH advice?
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09-12-2013, 03:01 AMDositoanyone have ACN/SMN/SCH advice?
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09-12-2013, 03:23 AMBefitNeptune
Im a lvl 41 smn and basically you use 3 dots and spam ruin II. Aetherflow is a cool self buff that has a 90 sec cd i believe but the buff stays on you until you use all the charges. As you level the number of charges increase from 1 to 3. The whole thing with aetherflow is that so far ive learned 3 abilities that can only be used if you have it activated. Energy drain is one of those abilities. It drains hp from the mob, restores hp and mp to you. Another one is Fester. This one does massive hp dmg to the mob. The pet control is kind of a pain. You can have it attack when you attack or you can order it to attack. I wasnt enjoying my arcanist until 35ish. Then it got to be a lot of fun. Hope this helps.
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09-12-2013, 03:24 AMKyronex
It's sort of like a pool of energy you draw from. At max level, casting Aetherflow gives you a stack of 3 meaning it'll let you use Aetherflow type skills 3 times before you have to refresh it like Energy Drain, Fester, and Bane. It also replenishes 20% of your MP every time you cast it.
SMN requires INT and SCH requires MND. You need to decide which one you're going for unless you want to spend 10,000 seals to respec. Yes, SCH has access to Cleric Stance, SMN do not.
Typical rotation for my SMN for single target:
Bio II > Miasma > Bio > Fester > Thunder > Ruin/RuinII
When you get Garuda, take advantage of Contagion which increases DOT times (Emerald Carby has the same skill)
Raging Strikes > Bio II > Miasma > Bio > Fester > Thunder > Contagion
When soloing you can set your pet to Sic, in dungeons use Obey so you have control over their abilities.
BTW, ACN are great for FATES like Dark Devices in N. Thanalan. you just sit in one spot spamming the instant cast AOE (Miasma II) to tag the mobs. -
09-12-2013, 03:31 AMhamsteak
aetherflow restores mp and allows the use of certain off-gcd abilities
it can be used once every minute and stacks up to 3
the abilities that can be used are: energy drain, fester, sacred soil, and lustrate
yes scholars can use cleric stance, though there's no point outside of soloing really
the pet ai is currently a bit wonky, however using the 'obey' command will let you use all of your pet's skills manually (excluding whispering dawn on Eos)
on summoner i usually do: shadow flare, bio II, miasma, bio, fester, thunder, contagion (garuda egi) and i use ruin until fester comes off cd, and ruin until the DoTs fall off and i have to reapply them
i use rouse on cd -
09-12-2013, 03:47 AMIgnnis
Fester is your friend.
But on a serious note, a little on summons.
Ifrit is your basic dps along with gurada, Titan is your tank. Never use Titan in a party because it causes agro issues with tanks so use gurada or ifrit (I personally prefer gurada).
Find a rotation, I use bio 2, miasma, bio, fester, thunder, ruin 2, ruin ruin etc. you can change it but general use both bios and miasma then apply fester then your other debuffs. Use aether flow to regulate mp, don't go spamming fester, bane or energy drain, use them accordingly so your not waiting for years for aetherflow to recharge.
You will find that in a party your next on the list for hate under the tank, so be prepared to run in instances of shitty tanking. -
09-12-2013, 04:53 AMTrihuuger
To fully utilize summoner with most tanks (Read: Most tanks are TERRIBLE wastes of human space) you will need archer at 34 or 36 for the threat reduction, can't remember the level right now, but is easy enough for someone that cares to look up. Summoner, maximally played, will have DoT's ticking on multiple mobs 100% of the time. This concept of AoE threat is foreign and downright impossible for 9+/10 duty finder tanks. In this regard, playing a summoner is miserable because you know you can do better, but there are far too many obstacles in your way to achieve this end.
Spreading our DoT's requires mobs within 5m of eachother. Basically stacked. Bosses with adds are particularly aggravating when the tank decides he's too good to try to drag the mobs together and just has them wherever they happen to land.
SCH is a powerful healer, but just like any healer in any other game, you're probably the least "powerful" person in a group as if people stand in stupid you're not going to be able to magically compensate for it pretty much no matter what you do. Coming from playing a tank, I hope you're prepared for the misery that lies ahead as a good tank is able to work wonders and nothing else comes close relatively speaking. -
09-12-2013, 04:59 AMTerk177
Actually, my single target rotation for summoner is as follows:
Bio II - Miasma - Bio - Fester - Thunder - Shadow Flare - Ruin/RuinII. Keep Fester on Cooldown, unless you're starved for Mana (or) there are multiple targets close together.
I find weaving Shadow Flare into the rotation is a DPS gain, even on single target seeing as over the course of 30 seconds it (ideally, depending on the GCD) it should have potency of 250. The only time I won't use it on a single target is when/if there is a CC'd mob next to a boss. -
09-12-2013, 07:33 AMDosito
Lol id love to be a scholar
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09-12-2013, 11:42 AMEtherealEarth
It seems no one (Summoners) is using Aero here, even if it's an instant cast.
Is it because it deals far too little dot comparing to other skills? -
09-12-2013, 11:51 AMMasamune1004Summoners don't have access to Aero, they only have THM and ARC abilities.Quote:
Originally Posted by EtherealEarth
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09-12-2013, 11:54 AMMindcl0ud
Aero cannot be used by summoner. It is not a cross class spell.
Summoner / Scholar is pretty fun. Scholars are more tank healer with a strong ranged shield. They play very different from WHM.
Summoners are awesome and are a DoT class. I have made a lot of posts about them and in general feel I have a strong understanding of the class so feel free to PM me. -
09-12-2013, 12:39 PMHiroradius
Well I'm level 45, and my rotation is
Miasma, Bio II, Bio, Fester, Thunder, Ruin 1, Ruin 2, Ruin, Ruin, Ruin 2. Repeat
Following this method, when I start my repeat Miasma and Bio are on about 2 or 3 seconds left and Bio II is usually about 10 seconds, so when I repeat Miasma is refreshed, Bio drops, Bio II get's refreshed, with an instant Bio.
Also don't spam Ruin 2, it may be instant but it also applies Blind and with Diminish returns, you if you cast Ruin 2 when Blind comes off it's more useful to the tank then spamming it, plus it doesn't do more damage then Ruin and has the same recast time.
If there are 3 or more mobs, I do try and get a Bane in there after the first Bio rotation, and usually will throw out a Tri-diaster followed by a ruin II so my egi will keep attacking (otherwise because Tri-diaster places a bind on the mob the egi stops attacking assuming you are running) -
09-12-2013, 01:32 PMKindledArcanist's have access to Aero, however summoners do not. But they can use thunder.Quote:
Originally Posted by EtherealEarth
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09-12-2013, 01:48 PMBabySealClubber
Opening rotation - Rouse>Spur>Obey>Raging Strikes>Bio II>Miasma>Thunder>Bio>Sic>Fester>Energy Drain>Ruin II>Energy Drain>Ruin II>Aetherflow>Ruin II>Fester>Shadow Flare>Ruin II>Run in and Miasma II if contagion is coming off CD, or if there are multiple targets
Some times I hit Sic right before thunder and still get Contagion on Bio. the reason I cast Thunder before Bio in my opening rotation is otherwise, I would recast Bio before setting pet to Sic, to get as high of a duration on Bio as possible.
Mid Battle Priority - Rouse>Spur>Raging Strikes>Bio II>Miasma>Bio>Energy Drain if low mana>Fester>Aetherflow if at 0 stacks Aethe>Thunder>Shadow Flare>Miasma 2 if Contagion is coming off CD or there are multiple targets>Ruin II if moving>Ruin
A DoT spell's damage vs. Ruin is DoT potency times number of ticks. number of ticks is DoT duration divided by 3. (add 5 ticks if contagion will happen before the dot expires)
Some DoT's also do an initial tick, but I haven't included that.
Bio II - 350 (525)
Miasma - 280 (450)
Shadow Flare - 250
Bio - 240 (440)
Thunder - 150 (275)
Ruin/Ruin II - 80
Miasma II - 70 (150) [per target]
There's a lot going on with the SMN rotation, and with that, and worrying about boss mechanics, I usually notice Contagion is off CD more often than i notice it's about to come off CD. Also, my DoT's almost never fall off, so contagion usually gets its full effect. I think this is worth the pet using a 90 potency attack instead of a 100 potency attack once every 30 seconds. I also don't like having to retarget the boss to extend if I'm in the middle of DoTing up an add.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thane
Losing 15 total potency by casting Thunder before Bio means you cast Contagion 2.5 seconds earlier. Whether or not that's worth it is debatable depending on the fight. having DoTs extend 2.5 sec earlier could mean you don't need to restack your first set of DoTs before spreading to an add, and could change the order you use abilities in your rotation. Usually, if I Thunder before Bio, I get more enmity on the boss throughout the fight.
I guess that's true. I never really stopped to do the math, just like having AD back on CD as soon as possible if it's already off CD. looks like you lose 300 potency over all if you double energy drain at the start after fester. but this only really applies to bosses since adds will be dead before you get off your third fester. the dps the raid gains from everyone going back on the boss earlier is worth the loss.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thane
It's 120 if you can contagion it, and there's no dps loss from running in if you do it when you use Bio or Ruin II. on Garuda, when she ports back, I usually Bio>Bane>Run in and MiasmaII>Run around and MiasmaII all grouped targetsQuote:
Originally Posted by Thane
140-2 targets
210-3 targets
On fights where there are no adds, I'll use Enkindle When I should Ruin. You usually don't get to use it twice, and when you do, it's usually on fights that have more than 1 target. Most fights have adds, so I usually save it until adds are upQuote:
Originally Posted by Thane
On the opening rotation, I think I'd still use Fester first to get Aetherdam on CD. the ~10-20 potency loss from the first Ruin being late is worth it I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thane
Any other time, you'll usually have more than enough time to just Fester after every Bio. Also, if you're ending you're opening with Bio, you can Fester during Bio GCD after the debuff is applied, but before the GCD ends.
I've been known to use weird rotations/strategies in WoW, but am usually top dps, so I stick with it unless I think it makes sense otherwise.
Has anyone figured out the Formula for spell damage? I would like to know the stat weights for Magic Damag, INT, DETER, CRIT, SPSP.
Also, at what point Accuracy becomes necessary? I don't think I've ever seen one of my spells miss in end game -
09-12-2013, 02:46 PMThaneYou're not gaining anything from alternating between Ruin and Ruin II. You have to wait the 2.5s GCD after Ruin II, plus the 2.5s cast time of Ruin, which is a total of 5 seconds, the same amount of time it would haven taken casting Ruin back to back. Or, you could just continue casting Ruin, doing the same amount of damage, and not eating away at your mana. Ruin II really shouldn't be based around its Blind, its just a slight bonus. The advantage is Ruin II is having something to cast while moving (to sustain DPS), and having that very slight bit of burst when something is at 1% health. Oh, Ruin II is also great when you need to do something off the GCD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiroradius
The combination of Tri-disaster plus Ruin II will also OOM you super fast. I actually think Tri-disaster is garbage as an AoE ability. Not only do you need at least 3 targets to be even remotely better damage (Tri-Disaster=90 potency vs 3 targets, Ruin=80 potency vs 1 target) , but it cast a ton of mana, and you'll be forced to use Energy Drains (instead of Festers) just to stay in the fight, AND like you said, your pet immediately stops attacking due to Bind. I say stick to using Bane and Shadow Flare as your AoE. And if the mobs happen to be close enough, Miasma II doesn't hurt. Don't bother running in just to apply a crappy dot (I go further into Miasma II further down the post).
Why would you ever go back to Sic? You're only hurting your pet's DPS by it. The optimal attack your pet should be using as much as possible is its primary attack. Having Garuda use her AoE on cooldown, or Ifrit his AoE and stun and useless Spikes, is a big waste of damage potential. Besides, you should have full control of Contagion. You should never let Garuda just use it on cooldown.Quote:
Originally Posted by BabySealClubber
I also dont understand why you think applying Bio after Thunder and before Contagion is a good thing. Bio is our hardest hitting DoT, and Contagion adds a set number of seconds. Bio last 18 seconds. Even if Contagion is used at .5s remaining, its still only going to tick for another 15 seconds. It doesn't matter if Contagion is used right away or not, no matter what, its going to tick for a total of 33 seconds with Contagion. You want Bio running as early as possible, because it hits the hardest.
I also dont really agree with casting two Energy Drains in your opening sequence. I know you want to get through your Aetherflow stacks quickly to activate Aetherdam and start its cooldown, but I'd wager you're losing a lot of DPS due to how hard Fester can hit, especially if it crits, and you're basically giving up 2 Fester's. I suppose if you still have the Raging Strikes buff for both Energy Drains, it may be worthwhile, but I would rather cast Shadow Flare (with Raging Strikes) than blowing Energy Drains. I could see maybe using a single Energy Drain and two Festers though. This is normally how I open:
Rouse/Spur > Raging Strikes > Obey > Bio II > Bio > Miasma > Thunder > Fester* > Shadow Flare > Contagion* > Ruin
* Need to be careful with Fester since DoT's are not applied immediately after casting, the animation needs to end first, thus why I cast Thunder first. Otherwise, you risk using Fester with only Bio and Bio II taken into account. Same with Contagion, thus why Shadow Flare first.
And like I mentioned earlier, I don't see Miasma II being worthwhile at all. Its instant damage is super low (20 potency) and its total DoT damage is 50 potency, grant total of 70 potency. On a single target, you're better off using that GCD casting Ruin for 80 potency. I can see it being a bit more useful for multiple targets, but I would never expect a SMN to actually run in and use it. If you're already in melee, than throwing one out is fine, given that there's MORE than 1 target.
Thinking about it, it may even be more beneficial to pop Enkindle right off the bat too, while your pet has Rouse/Spur. Enkindle sucks as a cooldown (its damage is far too low to deserve a 300s cooldown). However, this would really only apply to bosses outside of dungeons, as the fight actually needs to be longer than 300s (you need enough time to fire off a second Enkindle). However, more than likely, you'll only be using Enkindle once. So you should just use it when both Rouse/Spur are back off cooldown (which would be 120s if you're using Spur every 60s like you should be). I'm thinking this would also be risky in case your pet pulls aggro though.
Final thought: May be worthwhile to use Ruin II before Festers as well, due to animation "hidden" GCD. But that could be really frustrating...