Healing Threat (mostly WHM)

I'm genuinely shocked there hasn't been more of a community response to this issue yet.

For anyone that has progressed through (HM) Titan and beyond it has been a pretty big problem. Is this working as intended? Should our heals be throttled not just by mana, but by threat as well?

Thoughts??

While you're right that Healing threat needs to be managed it's not impossible by any means, challenging sometimes sure but not impossible.

Titan in particular it's mostly phase 1 where you'll have issues.

1 WHM/1SCH:

This is the optimal layout as far as I'm concerned. During phase 1 keep the tank healed, with his first set of jumps just let the SCH top everyone up - you should have used Stoneskin on the entire party anyway so the damage will be mitigated for the most part. When the second set of jumps starts you can pop a Medica 2 with no problems, he'll likely change phases then so stack up in the SCH bubble and if need be pop a Medica 1. The Medical 1 is probably optional if your SCH is on point but don't be afraid to use it if necessary.

Depending on how things go you'll probably be hovering around Yellow agro then, if it ever flicks into Orange during Phase 2 (or you just feel the need) then pop Shroud and you should be fine for the rest of the fight. There's no real harm in popping Shroud near the start of the second phase anyway just to be safe. Healing/mp consumption is pretty light until Phase 3 commences.

From that point on you just pray people know how to keep out of AoEs and keep the tank topped up during Titan's large upheaval chain in Phase 3. Agro will not be an issue from Phase 2 onwards.

2+ WHMs (harder):

If the party forms into a crescent formation (think semi-circle) around the boss in Phase 1 you can split your Medica/Medica 2's between the party somewhat evenly, preferably with all the ranged on one side to help with positioning the heals easily. The more targets you hit with Medica the greater your threat. If you manage to build into high agro anyway you can Shroud after the first phase change. The rest of the stuff above still applies.

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I'm seeing a lot of groups running with three Healers (2WHMs/1SCH) which isn't really necessary by any means but would make keeping the tank topped up during Phase 3's upheavals a lot easier. If your group is doing that then you best hope all the DPS are on-point during the Heart phase or you'll be enjoying a wipe.

Really the main challenge in Titan is positioning. Only takes a single misstep to wipe.

The only problem I have with whm is that if a cast regen before the fight and the tank get the boss, the boss will be glue to me no matter what the tank does. Happen to me twice in garuda and never again I cast regen before the fight start.

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Originally Posted by Alente

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I wasn't really referring to the Titan encounter in particular, just trying to say that after that point and into Coil healing threat is VERY noticeable. My guild is to the point where we need to tailor our strats to accommodate for the fact that WHM can and WILL pull threat off of tanks just doing basic AoE healing on the raid. The purpose of this thread was to see if people are okay with that or not.

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Originally Posted by rylai

I wasn't really referring to the Titan encounter in particular, just trying to say that after that point and into Coil healing threat is VERY noticeable. My guild is to the point where we need to tailor our strats to accommodate for the fact that WHM can and WILL pull threat off of tanks just doing basic AoE healing on the raid. The purpose of this thread was to see if people are okay with that or not.

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Oh

Then no, I personally wouldn't consider it an issue.

Adding a layer of difficulty to the game by forcing high-potency healing to be carefully used, and strategies designed accordingly, seems like a reasonable way to add challenge. Mana conservation hasn't really been an issue even with spam healing since 50 especially if a Bard is involved.

Although it's interesting that Scholars seem to receive a disproportionally lower amount of aggro all-around, I'm assuming shielding generates less threat than healing.

Overall more than happy with where WHMs stand - certainly wouldn't object to Scholar's threat gen being brought in-line with ours though.

An unfortunate part of this is that the Healer's enmity is controlled in part by the rest of the party. If they get themselves hurt more than they should, you have to soak up more hate. If the DDs get close to taking hate they can just stop attacking. A great tank should be able to out stripe any other individual (though disorganized attacks on groups can screw them over). But Healers... all you can do to mitigate is procrastinate a little.

It is the regen effect that is causing the high threat generation. Perhaps causing threat even when it overheals
The sch eos faerie gets a large amount of hate when it regens pt and when commanded to spam embrace.

Shield effects like stoneskin and aql dont produce extra hate for the sch/whm. Simple heals like cure2 and medica produce much less threat too.

SE needs to remove threat from overhealing. Or treat hot effects differently . Because it will just make whms spam cure2 and medica instead of using regen and med2.

Hots overhealing is unavoidable due to their design. This game also encourages you to get hp to 100%

Shroud reduce your current enmity by half.. use it and problem solved.

depends on the tanks, some can hold healer aggro some cant, im used to tanking adds and also bosses.

Just to say one more thing. I believe you can have WHM spam aoe to get highest threat as much as possible. By then, pld / war can provoke and whm use shroud of saint right after.

Reason?
1) Provoke make your enmity to highest, just above the previous one.
2) Shroud reduce current enmity by half.

Just make sure, your tank don't waste provoke in a wrong time.

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Originally Posted by Myrhn

The only problem I have with whm is that if a cast regen before the fight and the tank get the boss, the boss will be glue to me no matter what the tank does. Happen to me twice in garuda and never again I cast regen before the fight start.

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I stand by my opinion that regen should generate next to no enmity. I'm also sick of regen not wearing before the next pull (when the pulls are close together), the tank doesn't click it off then complains at me. I refuse to shelf my most efficient heal because YOU'RE too lazy to click one icon, thanks.

The reason that the Scholar doesn't have as much issues with threat, is because a chunk of their healing is done through their faerie, so they alone don't put out the threat, along with their healing being more mitigation based. WHM is pure potency so it makes sense that we should have to deal with enmity. Otherwise WHM would seriously over power scholar in usefulness.

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Originally Posted by Bigpurpleharness

I stand by my opinion that regen should generate next to no enmity. I'm also sick of regen not wearing before the next pull (when the pulls are close together), the tank doesn't click it off then complains at me. I refuse to shelf my most efficient heal because YOU'RE too lazy to click one icon, thanks.

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Regen is almost never needed.. And when it's needed you can throw it (as long as it's not before the pull), since the only time you really need it is either during a boss fight or when the tank is tanking a large group of mobs. As your group kill off the mobs, the need for regen will also go down and you can go over to casting cure1 or cure 2 without having regen up. That way, he'll never have regen up when he's/she's going for the next pull.

I barely ever use regen for trash mobs.

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Originally Posted by Sziadan

Regen is almost never needed.. And when it's needed you can throw it (as long as it's not before the pull), since the only time you really need it is either during a boss fight or when the tank is tanking a large group of mobs. As your group kill off the mobs, the need for regen will also go down and you can go over to casting cure1 or cure 2 without having regen up. That way, he'll never have regen up when he's/she's going for the next pull.

I barely ever use regen for trash mobs.

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Or.. You can regen/SS, a good tank won't let it hit you to begin with, then you spend the entire time nuking with cleric's stance and speed up the run.

I like healing aggro how it is. Adds an extra challenge, you must manage your own hate as well. Please stop asking to make the game easier. Use shroud strategically and heal efficiently and you won't pull aggro.

You will learn how to manage hate in turn 4 =o

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Originally Posted by Sziadan

Regen is almost never needed.. And when it's needed you can throw it (as long as it's not before the pull), since the only time you really need it is either during a boss fight or when the tank is tanking a large group of mobs. As your group kill off the mobs, the need for regen will also go down and you can go over to casting cure1 or cure 2 without having regen up. That way, he'll never have regen up when he's/she's going for the next pull.

I barely ever use regen for trash mobs.

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Bad whm. 10chars

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Originally Posted by Myrhn

The only problem I have with whm is that if a cast regen before the fight and the tank get the boss, the boss will be glue to me no matter what the tank does. Happen to me twice in garuda and never again I cast regen before the fight start.

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You should never start a regen before the fight - stoneskin yes, regen no. If you tank pulls fast, make sure he knows if he doesn't take it off before fight starts, you are not healing at all until he has threat on all targets... usually they get the point after 1 or 2 pulls, if not... you need a better tank.

I usually start casting stoneskin just as the last mob in a group has just a sliver of health left. Usually he is dead right as stoneskin goes off... so its all ready for the next pull.

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Originally Posted by Bigpurpleharness

Or.. You can regen/SS, a good tank won't let it hit you to begin with, then you spend the entire time nuking with cleric's stance and speed up the run.

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Why waste SS when you can just wait a second to cast regen AFTER the tank has established aggro.

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Originally Posted by dragonflyseksparade

Bad whm. 10chars

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Well this bad WHM were running AK in 11 minutes pre-patch and is doing Coil.
Have fun getting all the mobs on you pre-pull though if you think it's better to cast regen before pulling.

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Originally Posted by Sziadan

Why waste SS when you can just wait a second to cast regen AFTER the tank has established aggro.



Well this bad WHM were running AK in 11 minutes pre-patch and is doing Coil.
Have fun getting all the mobs on you pre-pull though if you think it's better to cast regen before pulling.

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Sounds like they could have been sub 10 minute runs if their WHM knew to regen and nuke, then.

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Originally Posted by Bigpurpleharness

Sounds like they could have been sub 10 minute runs if their WHM knew to regen and nuke, then.

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I never said I don't nuke, not sure where you got that from. What I said is that regen isn't needed in every damn situation and if you think that then go and find yourself a better tank. They shouldn't die straight away if you don't use regen.

I'm kind of glad that Regen and overhealing gives regular enmity. It was stupidly overpowered in 1.0 and now i actually have to make a conscious decision of what to use and take hate into account. Otherwise fights would easily be Medica II spam nonstop.

Instead of tossing Regen on someone that took a stray hit just use Cure, even better you have a chance of triggering Freecure. Throw out a Medica if 3 people or more took a hit. It just takes practice and getting used to the new mechanics and I have to say I've acclimated pretty well.

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Originally Posted by Sziadan

I never said I don't nuke, not sure where you got that from. What I said is that regen isn't needed in every damn situation and if you think that then go and find yourself a better tank. They shouldn't die straight away if you don't use regen.

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u still bad whm bro

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Originally Posted by dragonflyseksparade

u still bad whm bro

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If you say so, baddie :)

regen heals for more health than cure... Don't forget that its 150 potency per tick. Sometimes it's better to regen a target than cast cure.

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Originally Posted by Valiant

regen heals for more health than cure... Don't forget that its 150 potency per tick. Sometimes it's better to regen a target than cast cure.

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The problem was that people are using it pre-pulls. It generates threat as well, more so than a cure and should therefore not be casted until the tank have picked up all the monsters.