The stuns between war/pld

I kind of think War's need their stun brought in closer to that of the PLD. Perhaps on a low enough cooldown that for bosses that have those -must stun- skills, a war's skill will come off cooldown a seccond or two before the -must stun- is charging.

Two reasons:

1. Most of this tanking board seems to be up in arms over how theres an inbalance between the two tanking classes and this comes up all the time. This would be a minor quality of life improvement for the wars.

2. I'm a touch sick of being the stun-bitch in high level content, its a combination of boring and stressful because a) I don't get to do anything besides stun and b) they're insta wipes, completely and utterly unforgiving. I hate not being able to tank unless there's two pld's in the party and I call dibs first.

Alternatively take the pld stun off the gcd and add 50-75% to its tp cost so you still have to be careful with it.

war loves to be the stun bitch because we dont get to tank!.

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Originally Posted by 7-car-pileup

I kind of think War's need their stun brought in closer to that of the PLD. Perhaps on a low enough cooldown that for bosses that have those -must stun- skills, a war's skill will come off cooldown a seccond or two before the -must stun- is charging.

Two reasons:

1. Most of this tanking board seems to be up in arms over how theres an inbalance between the two tanking classes and this comes up all the time. This would be a minor quality of life improvement for the wars.

2. I'm a touch sick of being the stun-bitch in high level content, its a combination of boring and stressful because a) I don't get to do anything besides stun and b) they're insta wipes, completely and utterly unforgiving. I hate not being able to tank unless there's two pld's in the party and I call dibs first.

Alternatively take the pld stun off the gcd and add 50-75% to its tp cost so you still have to be careful with it.

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/seconded. I hate stun duty. I play tank cuz i wanna tank, not cuz i stand close to the mob to autoattack and stun every once in a while.

I don't think any class should have a stun without a cooldown! Who even thought that was a good idea? Instead of paladins having the ultimate überstun and warriors having a horrible one on a 30s cooldown, they should both get similar ones with like 15s cooldowns.

All for that, anything that gets me out of being pidgeon holed every time I'm in a party and there isn't another paladin to shift the suffering on to.

Just chiming in as a PLD here, I personally think the WAR interrupt is better than the one PLD gets.

Sure, we can spam it - but it's on GCD, which means unless you're anticipating the move it's EXTREMELY easy to miss, since mobs have a habit of starting a cast right after you use a skill. I would honestly prefer my pld stun have a longer cooldown and take it off GCD. But for balance purposes I can't really complain. I haven't done Ifrit myself yet, but if being the "stun bitch" means the difference between my party succeeding and failing, I'll gladly let a war have the fun of tanking the boss.

If the cooldown on war's stun was lowered it would invalidate the current functionality of pld's stun.

Hypothetically speaking, if war's cooldown was lowered and it retained being off GCD, I think that would cement their role of being "stun bitch". In that scenario, if a raid is deciding whether to stick a war or pld on stun duty, I think the choice between a "war still able to do full dmg with a low cooldown stun off gcd" and, "make the pld do nothing but white dmg the whole fight so they dont miss it", is pretty obvious. And I don’t think warriors want that. At the moment they are both useful in different situations.

Honestly, if you’re playing tank and complaining about being responsible for following unforgiving mechanics, regardless of how boring it is sometimes; I think you should pick something else.

The problem with the WAR stun is that it takes 20 minutes to come out after you've activated it. The 30 second cooldown doesn't help either.

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Originally Posted by Sephirah

J"war still able to do full dmg with a low cooldown stun off gcd"

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Just because something is off the GCD doesn't mean you can use it anytime you want. If WAR stun was on a 3s cooldown, it would still be inferior to PLD stun. The current animation has to finish first, THEN you can use Brutal Swing. Then you have to wait until the animation for that to finish before stun lands.

If a WAR wants to stun Ifrit, they can't be using any other skills, just like the PLD. I've grouped with numerous WARs that attempt stunning him while using other skills and they completely fail at interrupting Ifrit. Of course, no one in the raid says anything and we still beat it.

lower war's stun to 3sec duration and 20sec CD, we will all be happy.

Change Skills because of ONE fight in the game? Or are there more fights where PLD have to stun only?
I did about 5 Ifrit HM runs and i like doing the Stun Job in that one fight.

Its a nice variety to Tank the boss like in 99% of the other fights

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Originally Posted by hola

lower war's stun to 3sec duration and 20sec CD, we will all be happy.

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And for the love of god, make it so I don't have time to make a sandwich and take a dump during it's activation.

Not to mention the slow stun animation comparing to shield bash -.-

don't want to be a stun bot ? get a paladin co-tank better mitigation better survivability ask him to stun

anyway what content needed a stun bot? i've only done ifrit hm so far, are there more?

You know, isn't there like, a bunch of other classes with stuns as well? Can't your dragoon or monk or bard work in their stuns while you do something else? I mean the Monk's on a 40s cooldown, Dragoon has like 60s and okay, Bard's is Silence (something monk has on GCD) but still useful for that one fight where this happens.
Why don't the DDs actually do their damn job?

Because expecting anything other than big flashy numbers out of DDs these days is just too damn much.

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Originally Posted by Kensai

Change Skills because of ONE fight in the game? Or are there more fights where PLD have to stun only?
I did about 5 Ifrit HM runs and i like doing the Stun Job in that one fight.

Its a nice variety to Tank the boss like in 99% of the other fights

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Not that its a particularly pivotal fight for everyone, but the relic weapon quest has you fight against a suped up chimera that one shots everyone should its ram voice go un-stunned. Thankfully its dragon voice is silenceable and -very- easy to pick up with spirits within, but unlike ifrit this things ram voice is completely unavoidable.

And it's less of a cry out "ugh this boss has different mechanics and I can't tank it like all the other bosses" and more of a "I simply don't get to tank because of a mechanic unless we double up on the same class."

I like variety, it's actually what enthralled me with FFXIV's bosses. From lvl 15 they came out of the door swinging and had mechanics that you wouldnt see in some other MMO's till endgame raiding. Honestly, I'm happy to dodge a skill (even with this horrid lag everyone experiences with the red zones) because I am actively playing, dodging, weaving and reacting.

But back on topic, balancing out the stuns between the classes is probably needed so that both can perform in situations where interrupts are neccesary. That or give us a skill that simply interrupts skills in a manner similar to how Spirits within affects spells, off the gcd and on a 10 sec timer. (And I mean either both classes or have it as a cross classed skill and affect -skills- only) Because stunning something is particularly potent in terms of getting 3-6 secconds of not-getting-hit time. A simple interrupt that doesnt have diminishing returns will allow for normal play and the act/react mentality.

not sure it needs to be changed TOO much, except for the fact that after you hit it, theres this super long animation before it actually stuns....thats annoying. By the time ive seen the eruption cast bar, made sure its not radiant plume, and then hit stun, and then wait for animation spinning bit....its too late

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Originally Posted by Skies

You know, isn't there like, a bunch of other classes with stuns as well? Can't your dragoon or monk or bard work in their stuns while you do something else? I mean the Monk's on a 40s cooldown, Dragoon has like 60s and okay, Bard's is Silence (something monk has on GCD) but still useful for that one fight where this happens.
Why don't the DDs actually do their damn job?

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Dragoons have a stun on a 20 second cooldown that is actually instant, from my recollection.

AFAIK they can 100% stun Ifrit's eruptions (as long as you don't run into resists).

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Originally Posted by dimsumdarren

not sure it needs to be changed TOO much, except for the fact that after you hit it, theres this super long animation before it actually stuns....thats annoying. By the time ive seen the eruption cast bar, made sure its not radiant plume, and then hit stun, and then wait for animation spinning bit....its too late

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Yeah I tried being on stun duty as main tank and decided it was impossible.

In fairness it didn't matter. We DPSed so fast that we didn't have a level 3 LB for nails, and then we killed him the second go with me missing like half the stuns.

It's good to know that other people have the same problem with it. Unfortunately it would have been impossible to both tank and be on stun duty, due to how the stun animation works.

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Originally Posted by 7-car-pileup

2. I'm a touch sick of being the stun-bitch in high level content

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Honestly the stunning should be left to the more competent tank. I know it's boring, repetitive and sometimes stressful but the better player should be on the stuns. Main tanking is easy for the most part, but you stun because that skill will most likely murder the raid. So all in all you are doing the more important job.

Someone needs to explain to me why paladins are allowed to have a stun with no cooldown, while warriors stun is 30 cooldown. Same power, same duration, but warrior stun has a cooldown and paladins doesnt?

Huh? Shield bash has more power (110 v. 50) and it lasts longer (6 sec v. 5).

The big difference is that Shield Bash is on the Global Cooldown while Brutal Swing has a long animation before the stun is applied while shield bash is applied instantly.

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Originally Posted by ArgyleAlligator

Honestly the stunning should be left to the more competent tank. I know it's boring, repetitive and sometimes stressful but the better player should be on the stuns. Main tanking is easy for the most part, but you stun because that skill will most likely murder the raid. So all in all you are doing the more important job.

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I can get that concept well enough, but it doesn't make it any more fun or actually feel like playing. My main concern is that if I'm partied with a WAR I don't get a choice in the matter, for understandable reasons well enough. But if both stuns were more similar (and preferrably off the GCD unless an alternative interrupt is implemented ), Paladins wouldnt be pidgeon holed and double warrior tank setups wouldnt feel like doing things the hard way.

For Ifrit HM specifically, it would be nice if the CD on WAR stun would be reduced to half of what it is now, as he generally seems to do his Eruptions every 20 seconds and the CD on WAR stun in 30s. If the WAR stun was 15s CD it would actually be possible to use the WAR as the stunner instead of always the PLD.

This also applies to the first boss of AK, he does Void Lightning III about every 20 seconds and it sure would be nice if I could stun every VL3 instead of every other one, taking pressure off the healer.

Also, the windup animation on Brutal Swing is retarded, by the end of Ifrit HM if you don't react nearly instantly when the Eruption bar appears you WILL be too late. Brutal Swing needs to land instantly the way PLD stun does. This is also aggravating with Overpower as well and for the same reason.

There are a number of things which I am unhappy about being a WAR tank and comparing myself with PLDs but the thing which is absolutely the most unfair about the Axes compared to the Swords and Boards is the difference in their stun abilities. It's something that really needs to be corrected to bring the two tank classes closer to parity.

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Originally Posted by Illya

This also applies to the first boss of AK, he does Void Lightning III about every 20 seconds and it sure would be nice if I could stun every VL3 instead of every other one, taking pressure off the healer.

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Slightly off topic, but you can just run through the boss to avoid Void Lighting III. Once you are behind him he will stop casting. You can do the same thing with the slime boss in Wanderers whenever he casts a elemental spell.

why i see alot of pld's whinning about not being able to main tank ifrit ... and i dont see much War's complaining about PLD's always get to main tank everything els while we are being left out with most of the fights ppl perfer pld's over war's

doing ifrit hm twice with two warrior tank, after ifrit got his 3rd radiant plume rotation(after nail) the eruption match the 30sec cd of my brutal swing and its really nice because i dont have to worry about stun when its on cd and keep dpsing ifrit, when stun are ready i only use skill when ifrit does a skill with visual like incinerate

the first eruption before infernal nail need a coordination between 2 stunner, but wth its just a single eruption people need to learn avoiding bads

note : what funny is twice two warrior tank, twice paladin blade drop.......

When I was grinding Ifrits for my Ifrit wep on PLD, I demanded stun duty every time. I found it way more interesting than MTing for that particular fight anyways, and I liked being in control of whether my party succeeded or not. I don't really see what the problem is at least for Ifrit. I will say some of the later bosses are way more fun to MT than stun though.

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Originally Posted by Bov

When I was grinding Ifrits for my Ifrit wep on PLD, I demanded stun duty every time. I found it way more interesting than MTing for that particular fight anyways, and I liked being in control of whether my party succeeded or not. I don't really see what the problem is at least for Ifrit. I will say some of the later bosses are way more fun to MT than stun though.

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Problem with interrupting constantly is, you get even the minimum lag spike and gg. :v Yeah sure there could be a long cast attack that screams HEY INTERRUPT ME OR IM GONNA MURDER YOOOOO that's fine, but a 1.5 sec cast skill that can wipe the party, and you need to stun near instnatly even with pld (youdo, if you stun past half the cast you're gonna end upwith ifrit casting the eruption AND getting stunned after the animation)...it's kinda of annoying

It seems like the only fight that we get stuck in the the stun position is Ifrit, in all other situations from my experience people would rather have the PLD mt and the WAR do damage. PLD's much better damage mitigation helps so much more than just being a damage sponge. After I got my weapon from Ifrit, I've been main tanking all the other fights and people have asked me to do it, rather than the WAR.

war stun need change a bit, that is the long animation ! i know it looks cool but we need an insta stun for 30 sec cd
the off GCD feel useless when you have a long animation