The other day I was in copperbell with my sub character and I run into the people that are angry. I ask them what is wrong and they reply with "i h8 havn to do dis ????." and "yea this is so dumb that we are forced to run these dungeons to progress in the story." I ask them why are dungeons ???? and he replies "I don wana play wid othr peple. I just wana kill ???? and lvl up." I told him he might want to look into other Final Fantasies or wait for 15. The 2nd guy then replies with "but why cant we just play this one and ignore everyone?"
I just dropped it and didn't reply on the subject again. Then they just spammed Blizzard II the whole time and then yelled at me (Healer) when they died. I told them they probably shouldn't use blizzard II until later (would tell them when the really weak spiggans spawn) but they didn't ever stop and kept saying "i do wut i want"
I ask this: Why are they playing a Massively Multiplayer Online game when they just want to play by themselves? This game is party oriented and they protest it with every fiber of their being. Are there possibly any people with similar mindsets on here? Could you maturely explain your reasoning? I am genuinely curious.
EDIT:You may not mind it, but those guys said lots of other things to that effect, as have about 50% of Duty Finder people. Also, I'm not saying Skyrim is a replacement for an MMO, but with an MMO comes party requirements. It isn't that they don't play they way I want. -_- It's that they complain about having to do the dungeons and purposefully screw up the run because they are angry they are being made to play the main portion of the game. It baffles me and I want some insight on why they expect to not have to play in a group on an MMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by thedevilsjester
Also, I am not here complaining about having to play with them. I chose to play with the duty finder as to add my aid to the long waits for DPS, while my FC was offline. Please don't offer solutions to avoiding them. That isn't the point. I want to know what these players expect and why they don't like party content in the first place.
Players that complain about having to do Dungeons
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09-10-2013, 12:30 AMOrganizationXIllPlayers that complain about having to do Dungeons
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09-10-2013, 12:33 AMZantetsuken
It's one of the big problems with the FF MMOs being part of the numbered series.
FFXI and FFXIV should have been called 'Final Fantasy Online I & II" and their numbers given to other offline games.
Too many FF-fans who are also MMO-haters become disenchanted with the idea that the next FF title is a payed-subscription, forced-multiplayer game.
So either they sour on the series, or they grudgingly play and have a bad attitude about it. -
09-10-2013, 12:39 AMWolfie
ELI5 version:
To some people, MMO does not mean forced grouping. They hate the idea of being forced to group, but some will gladly group at their convenience. Their main draw is the large, permanent world and story. I think SE did a very good job with the main story in this game because I don't mind the dungeons, but I can see how frustrating it can get for people that play DPS classes or that don't like being forced to group to finish the main storyline of a game. -
09-10-2013, 12:42 AMItchyness
Just seems some people are extremely anti-social and don't realize that dungeon runs actually teach basic concepts of raid play, which there are PLENTY of people that still need this ejumukashun about this system.
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09-10-2013, 12:52 AMBulwyf
I hate with a passion forced instances. The main story is for *my* character and as such it should be done solo and not require others. The entire main story tells you how great and wonderful your character is and then randomly you are forced to group with other people just to continue the story. You also are forced to do it just to have basic MMO necessities like mounts, rep grinding (ie grand companies) airship travel to other cities and using the AH with a retainer.
It is not unusual that a large percentage of MMO players prefer to play solo. It is their monthly sub to play as they want. I frankly think the forced grouping in this game is a huge negative.
To further clarify why I hate it: being forced to use duty finder to fill out a group and having incompetent morons in your group or people who intentionally screw up on purpose to grief the other people in the group. I have run across many of those people while doing dungeons. -
09-10-2013, 01:07 AMYshnalI agree with this wholeheartedly. However, that doesn't entitle them to act like jerks, like the ones the OP mentions. People like those are the ones that give a bad name to the "solo" community.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfie
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09-10-2013, 01:11 AMWobiWhy play an MMO then? You know you will have to interact with other people, find yourself a nice LS/Free Company and group with those people and you won't have to deal with random Duty Finder people. Some of them are great, others... well I think we all know how bad it can get.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulwyf
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09-10-2013, 01:18 AMBloodyLadius
I tend to play alone and soloist content just cause I don't like talking very much with other people. I just prefer to be silent but if I need to talk to people and get into groups to progress or get help with what I need to get further to we're I wanna be at then I gladly play with other and be polite cause what's the point in being rude. If you truly hate people that mug that you can't even deal with a group then go by an old console system with no online ability and play those games. The current game community is based on a playing with other when need be to beat the game.. When it come to mmo's you best be able to play with other or just stop playing all together.
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09-10-2013, 01:32 AMLaume
As someone who solos a lot... and I mean A LOT... yeah, I can understand their feelings. Not that that's how I act or condone what they did, but I understand. On one hand, this FF game looks, feels, plays like no other. (thus far). On the other hand, you need to play online. If you run into players like this again, try to go down this conversational path.
"Remember that magic draw system in FFVIII? Yeah, boy did that suck balls. But we needed to deal with it to play FFVIII, right? Yeah, this game can suck with all partying, but you need to deal with it to play this game. Just about every FF game has it. The skill map in FFX, the 'no levels' thing in FF2(jp). So, just roll with it." -
09-10-2013, 01:33 AMthedevilsjester
I am a soloist, and I enjoy the dungeons in FFXIV.
I play solo because most people online are rude, childish, arrogant, and often know how you should play your character (because if you are not doing it how they do, you are obviously wrong). Its not worth wading through the muck to play with those good players. I have yet to find a FC/Guild in any MMO that didnt have players that made me feel unwelcome, so I just solo so I can enjoy the game, because its not enjoyable otherwise. Its not that we are anti-social (although I am sure there are some of these as well) its that the internet offers an anonymity that breeds people I would rather not socialize with.
Why do I play an MMO then? Well an MMO is huge, constantly updated, new (official) content, features, and game play elements for many years after launch. No offline RPG offers this (and user generated content or mods are not a suitable replacement). -
09-10-2013, 01:51 AMIgnnis
I can understand not wanting to be forced to que for hours trying to run a dungeon to progress in the story, a possible idea would to have all the story dungeons solo then once you complete them have a hard mode which is essentially a group version of the same dungeon which is entirely optional, problem is it Pratically involves making 2 dungeons for one instance with all the scaling and difficulty tweaking. I personally don't mind running dungeons to progress in story I DO mind however getting partied with idiots, wannabe elitists and waiting for hours in duty finder (the bane of being a dps class).
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09-10-2013, 02:04 AMUki
Solo whining players are the poison of the communities in MMORPGS.I've had these idiots on alot of Dungeons and Primals,they screw EVERYTHING.
They don't listen,they think (of course) they're playing alone when they're not.They don't wait to the TANK to hit the mobs first and get all the aggro,they just smash the buttons like madmen.If they die,lawd oh lawd! if they die! the horror!,obviously it's your fault!
As Highguard said, better to join, or create a FC, with luck, grab a few good players, then you can enjoy the Dungeons. -
09-10-2013, 02:05 AMOrganizationXIll
This game isn't a solo game, though. They give you some solo stuff to do, but honestly I wish they didn't even have that. The game is designed to help you learn your party role in groups for endgame content. What is the point of playing a game with lots of other people if you don't want to interact with them? You just want to compare notes on your solo content? There are games out there that are single player with many gameplay options and some new content. Skyrim is one example I can think of off the top of my head. If you want to talk about the solo game join a forum or gaming community.
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09-10-2013, 02:11 AMthedevilsjesterI could not agree more! This should really be part of the Terms of Service.Quote:
Originally Posted by Highguard
Why do you make the assumption that because we dont want to group with other players, that we dont want to interact with them at all? You assume that if someone is not playing the game exactly how you would have it played, that they have no good reason and should just find another game (god forbid they play that one differently than you).Quote:
Originally Posted by OrganizationXIll
Skyrim has what...one expansion? How is this a suitable replacement for an MMORPG? Even if they had the same amount of content (or you counted user generated content, which I vehemently do not), its not even remotely the same type of game. -
09-10-2013, 02:39 AMwlakizThat's funny because MMOs are usually updated with Group content that you will never see because you are a soloist. I think you will find greater enjoyment in games like skyrim and get your dose of 'update' through dlc and iterations.Quote:
Originally Posted by thedevilsjester
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09-10-2013, 02:48 AMVeet
I can't believe that the same tired old "if you don't want to group, then you shouldn't play an mmorpg" thing still gets thrown around. It's almost as silly as requiring people to role play in an mmoRPg.
The forced grouping to continue the main story is annoying, yes, but the real kicker is the forced grouping to simply unlock a mount or a retainer. If I have that correct, let me know if i'm wrong on that.
It somewhat reminds me of the early days of LOTRO when you had forced grouping roadblocks thown in front of you in order to advance certain epic questlines. Eventually that changed.
An mmorpg is simply a persistent online world where many people exist virtually. Nothing more, nothing less. Forced grouping is simply one way to make an mmo and that's fine. EDIT: I don't believe all games should be the same, if forced grouping is how a particular dev team wants their mmo, then so be it and I will adapt or find another mmo that does it differently.
Personally I don't like it because of horrible experiences in the past with pugs. However, the rest of this game is good enough to stick it out for the time being. -
09-10-2013, 02:54 AMKsenia
I like to come up with imaginary problems so I can vilify people I don't agree with too, OP.
Real reason people hate forced grouping in PvE.
Joe takes a phone call, wait 5 minutes, Janice needs to see why the baby is crying, wait 10 minutes. Kevin disconnected again, wait 5 minutes. 2 hrs later you wipe and get to do it all again and again and again.
Carry on with your vilification though. That's really what this is about. -
09-10-2013, 02:58 AMthedevilsjesterMy experience over the last 10 years of MMORPG'ing is quite the opposite. And in fact, I keep playing them, and keep enjoying them immensely, with tons of soloable content added regularly. It depends entirely on the game. If its group centric like XI, you can expect that most content will be group focused. But most MMORPG's have a good mix of group and solo content and their expansions cater to the same crowd as the core game.Quote:
Originally Posted by wlakiz
The Skyrim "offline" solution you propose (and everyone keeps proposing) does not even come close to replacing the epic scale of an MMO. -
09-10-2013, 03:05 AMcutiewutie
I quit the game today because of these group content road blocks. I am at level 20, and I wanted to become a Summoner/Scholar. My Conjurer levels is sitting at level 18 because I was using it to progress through the group requirements, instead of playing the class that I want to play. Now that my Arcanist is at level 20, and I've been trying to find a group for Ifrit for two days, I've simply decided to log out at an inn and not come back for now.
I was in a large FC, we have around 150 members, but I left it today. I couldn't find any healers or tanks that were willing to repeat the content, especially Ifrit, because there are no rewards for beating him. I reached out to my FC many times, every time I've had to do a dungeon for my story quests, and nobody is willing to help. This is a video game. I play it to relax and have fun. In any MMO, the community is your greatest hurdle, and so far this community has been insurmountable for me. -
09-10-2013, 04:21 AMDemlixAnd where is LOTRO now? I picked that game up in beta, and played all the way up until about 6 months ago. F2P has killed that game, and the loss of focus on end game raiding content was utterly disappointing. The reason all of this happened? F2P Solo players are to blame. They spend the most money on the micro transaction store, and thus that's who development started favoring. This lead to a spiral of worse/less raid content which resulted in the loss of raiders, and then of course the auto-loot system, which was the straw that broke my back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veet
I just hope that SE can ignore the cries of solo players, because they are the bane of MMOs. -
09-10-2013, 04:34 AMeetoMMO means MASSIVELY multiplayer. Like MASSIVELY!! This category of games just isn't for you especially FF's online series.Quote:
Originally Posted by cutiewutie
If you had played FF11, you would have quitted by lv10 or before hitting the Dunes... -
09-10-2013, 04:44 AMcutiewutieQuote:
Originally Posted by eeto
Really? Is that why I've been playing MMOs for nine years now? I've done fine in many of them. You are right about FF11, I did have to give up playing it at level ten. You have completely missed what I said in my post, but that doesn't surprise me. People read something and just look for something to pick apart and argue about. It is beyond arrogant to tell another person who you don't even know that an entire genre isn't for them, when I've done just fine in them for this long. I have never experienced these types of roadblocks in other MMOs. There is nothing I can do if people are unwilling to group up with you for content they have already completed. I can't imagine what it'll be like for new players in a year. -
09-10-2013, 04:50 AMWiggles
I actually feel the game is focuses on the solo player unfortunately. Because of the Dungeon structure/ Instances (1 tank, 1 healer, 2 DPS) its hard to get my friends together for Dungeon groups, we have a lot of doubles (2 tanks, healers, etc), and find we are better just solo queueing into Duty :/ Fate parties are really nothing special, no teamwork is needed for FATES.
I would of liked to see 8 man raids from the start, or a flexible dungeon system where you could bring 2 tanks or 2 healers if you wanted or have 4-6 players and the dungeon scales in difficulty. -
09-10-2013, 05:10 AMthedevilsjesterIts a good thing its not called Massively GROUPING RPG, because soloists in general do no mind multi-players (we socialize, we craft, we harvest, we trade, we help, etc...) , so this aspect is not the issue (in fact its one of the reasons I actually play an MMO vs an offline RPG), what we have issue with is grouping (i.e. forced to rely on others) to get to be able to play at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by eeto
Its not fun to have people tell you how you should enjoy a game. It doesnt matter which camp you are in. But whining about it, its not the solution. I personally enjoy the dungeons, and have had nothing but fun (sans a few bad parties) using the DF. They do, however, need to give more incentive to do the earlier story instances so new players, both those that enjoy grouping and otherwise, have a good chance of getting a party for them. -
09-10-2013, 05:44 AMVeetLotro I guess is doing pretty good. You're lumping way too many things together and drawing some dubious connections. I played for quite a while myself. From near launch to a year or so ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demlix
F2p is one thing, lack of endgame raiding is another. You can complain all you want about lotro's lack of raiding but that has nothing to do with the fact that they changed the epic lines to be soloable. Which is the only thing that I commented on. And they did it as the game matured to the point where it was entirely unreasonable to expect people to find groups for all of that content especially in the early levels.
You can pick a f2p fight with someone else. I don't like it either but to equate f2p with solo players who poop on mmos and buy all the shop items and kill raids blah blah blah.... is something that I don't see. Nor is that the discussion.
You like forced grouping mmo's, we get it.
Edit: not wanting forced grouping to unlock a mount or continue the main story doesn't equal wanting a SP game. Or wanting to eradicate raiding from an mmo. -
09-10-2013, 06:09 AMCyroselleThey might also play at odd hours, or be more interested in duo gameplay over group. But that's the good thing about MMOs, the variety of gameplay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Itchyness
Most of the time. -
09-10-2013, 06:16 AMSeraphiYeah, you have no clue what you're talking about. LOTRO moving to F2P is actually what revitalized the game. The game did substantially better as F2P than it did as P2P. In fact, it's usually used as the precedence when P2P games make the switch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demlix
What? The game was doing poorly financially. It wasn't worth the subscription and was overall a mediocre game, especially in the shadow of the juggernauts (at the time) like WoWQuote:
The reason all of this happened? F2P Solo players are to blame.
Again, you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Stop running your mouth and go do some research. -
09-10-2013, 06:25 AMReynhartWith what you pay for FFXIV, you could buy a new offline RPG every six months, for a totally new experience, new content, exploration, gameplay, and so on...far more than what regular updates can offer you in this game :pQuote:
Originally Posted by thedevilsjester
Those "people" are the designers themselves. Don't you mind that they force you to play one of the class they designed ? Or what skills each class have ? It's not like the playerbase is putting this on you, so what's the point...Quote:
Originally Posted by thedevilsjester
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09-10-2013, 06:28 AMFroippiyea right LOTRO may have made more money going f2p but it turned into garbage going f2p also if you want solo mmorpg then go play but don't force that garbage here i also rather pay a monthly sub than being nickel and dime like you were in LOTRO alsoQuote:
Originally Posted by Seraphi
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09-10-2013, 06:31 AMFroippi
to be honest the more group content the better i always say
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09-10-2013, 06:33 AMIzumiRaito
The only problem with the mandatory story instances i see is that players in it are disjoint with the story. In cutscenes u are alone, while in reality there are 4 of u in dungeon!
Every story instance cutscenes should feature all the players that are in it, NOT some story npcs that doesnt take part in fights at all!
And the fix of long dps queues in early levels is to exploit the flexibility of arcanists. I completed the first two story dungeons in party of gla, mrd, arc and acn. -
09-10-2013, 06:59 AMSquatsI agree somewhat, but my indroduction to MMOs was Final Fantasy 11, and I doubt I would have tried it if it weren't #11 in the series.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zantetsuken
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09-10-2013, 07:02 AMCronk
It does suck to have go to into instance finder To do a storyline quest. I cant even help my wife on this cause shes a marauder and im a gladiator, system simple refuses to let us que together.
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09-10-2013, 07:57 AMHammerfist
Today I saw a guy complaining for having to always be online in order to play the game and for the combat system not being the same from older FF titles like FFVII... Just ignore them, some people are just plainly stupid.
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09-10-2013, 12:21 PMKorusus
I love FFXIV (best looking MMO world I've ever seen) and have no problem with the forced dungeons concept in theory...except that I hate FFXIV's dungeons. Most everything else about this game is high quality considering how quickly they put it together, but I feel like the dungeons got the generic and boring treatment.
And as a long-time healer in MMOs, I want to just point out that the only reason to play a healer in this game is for the instant DF pop. I've never been as bored as a healer as I have been in FFXIV. It would help if the healing rotation wasn't 2 to 5 buttons, most of which you don't even get access to until you're almost done levelling.
That's my personal reasoning, your mileage may vary. -
09-11-2013, 05:12 AMthedevilsjesterI do not want a new experience. I want a continually expanding experience in a persistent world. And to be quite honest, I already own all of the offline RPG's that I like, and as much as an RPG lover as I am, these are few and far between.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reynhart
I think you confuse me with the target of the OP's dislike. I enjoy FFXIV and dont think its group focused at all. The designers have made it clear that FFXIV is a solo-friendly game with very few required group activities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reynhart
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09-11-2013, 05:22 AMSuneater
The problem is they are mandatory to advance the main story. If you could just unlock access via an obvious side quest nearby a main quest NPC it would make more sense than the threadbare reasoning we have for them now ("someone might've gotten lost in X dungeon, you should go wait 50 mins in queue to do a 40 min dungeon now"). I don't mind doing them and I would queue for them more if: they gave better exp, were less linear/repetitive, and had shorter queue.
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09-11-2013, 06:03 AMSixmp
For me the perfect MMO would let people progress through the story how they prefer. If they want to do everything solo that should be available to them. If people want to party up in 2, 3, 6, 30, person parties then that should be available to them. Naturally you could not expect every party size to be accounted for but if they can make fun content for a single player game then they could do it easily for an MMO while keeping party play there for people who like it.
Now before people jump on me with the usual arguments about how MMO = party play, let me ask you this. If i am only leveling crafting classes where is the party i must take part in? As far i know there isn't any.
With that in mind why shouldn't ALL jobs have that option?
I like playing in MMO's to be part of the ever changing world to chat to people, to help random people which could be anything from a quick heal or throwing some currency their way or information on how to get through a quest.
MMO is about being part of a world not about being a part of a party.
TL/DR MMO = interaction with many people in a huge world in multiple ways not just spanking monsters in the face with a shield/fist/fire etc. -
09-11-2013, 06:31 AMSuellen
I understand there are those who would prefer soloing and I have no problems with that. But I personally prefer dungeons and group encounters embedded in the story.
I've played a lot of mmos and I've played a fair few that had their story be completely solo friendly. What this usually turns out for me is a very boring romp. I can see a lot of thought would be put into them and the story overall might not even be that bad. But the encounters have to be designed for any one on any class/job to complete. This means it can't require a lot of dps or healers and tanks would be screwed. You can't get hit hard cause then dps would be screwed. So what you end up with 99% of the time is easy peasy yawn fest fights. I don't feel like an epic player that just accomplished something worth praise when I yawned through an encounter I feel any footsoldier AI could handle. And that's my beef with most solo-friendly storys in most mmos.
your miles may very of course. But I feel the pacing in the FFXIV story is really well done I've enjoyed the storyline and I don't feel like I've had to group so often that it grinds my gameplay to a halt as I wait in queue. I loved the Ifirit fight it was the type of story driven fight I have been missing and craving for to be back in mmos for god it feels like 10 years. It wasn't super hard (as it shouldn't be at level 20) but it felt challenging enough (our group wiped twice before beating it) that I felt like "YEAH I killed a primal!" and it felt GREAT. I can't really express how much I've missed this in story mmos.
I'm sorry that for some this type of story gameplay isn't their cup of tea. But some out there have been clamoring for it and I'm really happy to have found a game that might actually deliver this time.