Gear Check Can I have it?

We really need gear check system for duty finder because some players don't care about gear and wont everyone else in the group to carry them. Doing Ifrit a few times so many people coming into the instance with lvl 40 weapons and terrible jewelry like all lvl 20 stuff.

Here are some diea's on how they could do it.(just an example)

Wanders Palace: Weapon level must be IL 50 Job main job stat @ 360

Amdapor keep: Weapon Item level must be 55 main job stat @ 370

Ifrit: Weapon Item level must be 55 main job stat @ 370

Garuda: Weapon item level must be lvl 60 main job stat @ 380

Titan: Weapon level must be 70 main job stat @ 400.


Now i'm not saying this is how this should be handled but some kind of gear check needs to be done. You have Pld tanks trying to do titan with barley 4k hp and are damn near getting one shot, or People in ifrit groups wont do ifrit without an blm or SMN because their dps is so bad they can't kill nails without these jobs lvl 2-3 limit break.

What is funny is the people who are far under geared are normally the ones to try and point blame for troubles in the runs thinking they have done no wrong.

There really is no reason to think entering a level 50 instance with most your gear being sub 45/50 depending on the slots should be ok. It doesn't take any effort at all to get at least a 50 weapon and Armor and 40/45+ in Accs.

Im here for FF not Wow.

This is why 8 mans should not be eligible for DF. You need certain gear ivls to do harder content and proper class set ups. Also ifrit can be done with crafted HQ 45 accessories, full AF, and GC level 44 weps. You're screwed out of wep upgrades until Amdapor, which is hard without ifrits wep, and ifrit is easier than Amdapor so you're better off doing ifrit until you get your weapon.

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Originally Posted by Firon

Amdapor keep: Weapon Item level must be 60 main job stat @ 370

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While I agree gating people would be fine, it's kind of silly to suggest a requirement of ilvl 60 weapons for a dungeon that drops ilvl60 gear. Also, I'm pretty sure the only place that drops ilvl 60 weapons is Ifrit hardmode, which is something that should be done *after* amdapor imo. Could be wrong, though!

The problem with this is that the progression quests are arranged in such a manner that the first ones required are Amdapor Keep and Ifrit HM. This tells me that these instances are intended to be completable (not quick or easy, just able to be done) with at least AF gear, since you receive these quests right after completing the main story. On the other hand, if people leveled in dungeons rather than FATEs they would probably have enough tomestones to buy better gear as soon as they hit 50. As it stands, though, people are going to be running Amdapor Keep and Ifrit HM in AF gear because the game tells them they can.

Basically, if you want quick, easy runs, don't use Duty Finder.

Nope. First, the job main stat isn't always the one that they raise due to certain traits and skills (Cleric stance on SCH has a good role). Second, get a pre-made group together. Why do people complain about PUGs? They are random; you are trying to control random. There is a simple solution to your problems with having random people join your groups... make a not-so-random group. The sheer amount of people that complain about getting random people in a random queuing system is ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by ArcheDragon

Nope. First, the job main stat isn't always the one that they raise due to certain traits and skills (Cleric stance on SCH has a good role). Second, get a pre-made group together. Why do people complain about PUGs? They are random; you are trying to control random. There is a simple solution to your problems with having random people join your groups... make a not-so-random group. The sheer amount of people that complain about getting random people in a random queuing system is ridiculous.

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There's complaining because these fights are actually difficult, require certain class set ups, and require a certain ILVL of gear to attempt.

They should not be doable with duty finder, it would completely fix all complaints about this.

lol @ ifrit being difficult. The others? Sure, ifrit? lolno

Great, the "You must have better gear than the dungeon you're trying to run" fallacy has come to Eorzea.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

There's complaining because these fights are actually difficult, require certain class set ups, and require a certain ILVL of gear to attempt.

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But they don't require certain class setups or ilvl to attempt, or even to complete successfully. These things make them much easier to do quickly, but you can do things with a less than ideal setup, and there is every indication that the game is designed to allow for that. There's another thread here somewhere about people doing Ifrit HM without what everyone considers an ideal setup and doing just fine.

I wouldn't complain if they took them off duty finder, but I don't foresee that ever happening, so people who want to personally vet everyone in their group should do so, and not complain when they get random people while using a "find me random people" system.

I don't think checks should be AS restrictive as that but...come on people. Can you not sign up for HM garuda with lv 20ish rings and bracelets and a low level 40 weapon? Usually the cracked version that requires a person to craft it so it's halfway decent? It's ridiculous.

Garuda and higher is where I think the gear checks need to come in. I hate waiting 30 minutes to an hour to get into garuda and instantly know we are going to wipe when I see 3/4 of the group wearing level 40 weapons and full af.

You could just not use Duty Finder? I always see this complaining that people don't like what they get but they never take the opportunity to make their own group with people they can know before entering. I admit people do enter dungeons under geared sometimes however that's the risk you take. If you don't want to take the risk, plan it out before hand and get a group together that meets your demands rather than placing a restriction on everyone simply based on their weapon.

If I wanted to farm good gear before even trying ifrit etc to make sure I was good, farmed a full set of AF2 but still had a weapon of say item level 49, does that mean I'm not a good enough tank for Ifrit? If it was considering all gear I would still be against it because this way promotes people to make their own skilled groups if they get fed up enough. Hopefully people will realise this and keep their elitist views away from the general community and in their own community entirely, that way people would be a lot happier playing their own style.

Except weapon gear checks really aren't just demands placed by players, they're imposed by the developers as well. Take Garuda for instance where you have an add that heals Garuda and will forestall the fight indefinitely if the dps is really that low. You can have the best rotation in the world but you'll still be limited by your own stats in terms of how much damage you can put out. That's why there are item levels on the gear in general. They act as a benchmark for how well your character would perform on average in its role. Think of it in terms of system requirements for games. You could possibly play a game where you fall under the benchmark requirements to play it comfortably but would you really want to?

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Originally Posted by Kyriea

You could just not use Duty Finder?

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The problem is EVERYONE is using it, or the vast majority. No one see's your shout, no one is shouting, there's no central hub for finding groups like whitegate or jueno because you can just queue up from anywhere. Less FC's/linkshells recruiting, less players trying to form a community to get things done, etc. The duty finder itself negatively effects the entire process of forming groups for content, just saying "don't use it" doesn't work.

That's why I made a LS on my server called "Leviathan LFG" where I invite players to who are interested in a LFG LS. We basically use it as a global chat channel for finding members, everyone should really have one of these on their servers. I've made tons of groups, friends, and formed my own FC from it, it's so nice. The MMO community as a whole for the past decade really needs much less reliance on the duty finder, it's made games and it's communities so much worse.

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Originally Posted by Kyriea

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There needs to be gear checks too many people think they should be carried by others. I also never said what i suggested should be the norm I simply gave examples on how SE should gear check people. No one is being elitist there simply people who don't care about gear. DD's who can't even kill ifrits nails, that's pretty sad, and the fact that people wont do him with a BLM/SMN lvl 2-3 limit is even worse cause they can't put out the dps to kill the nails. No one has to be super geared for the fights but having good enough gear helps.

There is this famous words I've been hearing alot..

"Skill level > Gear level"

We're not playing counter strike or street fighter here.

There are stats in a RPG for a reason, if your specific stats is not up to par -- say against Garuda HM, you'll never beat her regeneration no matter how good you're in Street Fighter or Super Mario.

Having skillful movement helps, but one screw up will have you killed if you aren't geared. Vice versa, having the greatest gear can still get you killed if you are having difficulty pressing a couple keys... though there will be more room for error than those who are under-geared.

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Originally Posted by nekochen

There is this famous words I've been hearing alot..

"Skill level > Gear level"

We're not playing counter strike or street fighter here.

There are stats in a RPG for a reason, if your specific stats is not up to par -- say against Garuda HM, you'll never beat her regeneration no matter how good you're in Street Fighter or Super Mario.

Having skillful movement helps, but one screw up will have you killed if you aren't geared. Vice versa, having the greatest gear can still get you killed if you are having difficulty pressing a couple keys... though there will be more room for error than those who are under-geared.

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Yup and a drg with perfect rotation still doing 20k less dmg than the other drg yup Skill > Gear.

It's fair enough and I mostly agree however the attitude of most groups at the moment is bad enough even for geared players and fuelling that further isn't the way to go about it I don't think. I think like you said there is no central hub and that is indirectly responsible for the duty finder not working out as well as it should. If they added a city in the middle for higher level players, something along the lines of Whitegate of Jeuno then people can shout for members or recruit for FC's ect and there will be less elitist attitudes in the DF. Or we the players could agree on a hub to use. A hub for players to get together to recruit is almost essential in games like this and the vast majority if not all (except XIV) mmo's have one.

There will always be elitist attitudes but just personally it's been an absolute nightmare getting a group together for this fight. With not having FC members up to the fight yet the options are either use DF or teleport around to a bunch of different places just so people can hear the shout for a group. So it'd be nice to have a gear check for DF as well as an easier way to inform people on the server that you're looking for a group.

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Originally Posted by Calyanare

But they don't require certain class setups or ilvl to attempt, or even to complete successfully. These things make them much easier to do quickly, but you can do things with a less than ideal setup, and there is every indication that the game is designed to allow for that. There's another thread here somewhere about people doing Ifrit HM without what everyone considers an ideal setup and doing just fine.

I wouldn't complain if they took them off duty finder, but I don't foresee that ever happening, so people who want to personally vet everyone in their group should do so, and not complain when they get random people while using a "find me random people" system.

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Try to do garuda HM with undergeared dps and see how long the rocks last and the healers MP lasts because the fight dragged on longer than it needed to. That's where this kinda thing is coming from.

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Originally Posted by Zadawn

Im here for FF not Wow.

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Ah yes, the old "this isn't X" fallacy.

I'm going Amdapor's keep to kill the wall, not wipe on him because the dps is undergeared. The only way to ensure that is to *drumroll* make a premade. DF users who soloqueue are boned.

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Originally Posted by Kyriea

It's fair enough and I mostly agree however the attitude of most groups at the moment is bad enough even for geared players and fuelling that further isn't the way to go about it I don't think. I think like you said there is no central hub and that is indirectly responsible for the duty finder not working out as well as it should. If they added a city in the middle for higher level players, something along the lines of Whitegate of Jeuno then people can shout for members or recruit for FC's ect and there will be less elitist attitudes in the DF. Or we the players could agree on a hub to use. A hub for players to get together to recruit is almost essential in games like this and the vast majority if not all (except XIV) mmo's have one.

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You can't say someone gear is bad if they can't even enter the raid tho. Only way to get in is to be geared.

Gear doesn't equal skill though, so people with good gear can be bad players. People will always be elitist but with the duty finder the way it is they're all cramming into it and insulting players rather than planning beforehand. There will always, and I really mean always regardless of an item level check, be people who can't do what others will want them to do either because they were piggy backed to the top or simply people expect better than what you need. The latter is unfortunately true for a lot because people want things to be done as fast as possible and don't like any wait at all.

SE just need to help the community find a place to recruit players of similar skill/playstyle so that the duty finder isn't abused as much as it is currently. Or add more filters to the duty finder to distinguish between elite players and laid back players. I am a laid back player but I have no time for people who rage quit after 1 wipe simply because somebody was new. I like helping people not slamming them about it, and people leaving helps nobody. I have to say being thanked for helping someone get the feel of a dungeon for the first time brings more satisfaction to the grind.

I really don't get it - You can buy all the gear you need easily but that doesn't mean squat lol, people can still be bad at their job or have a poor rotation. Just like this PLD in Full DL with their relic - most horrible PLD I've ever seen, yet this PLD in Aetherial 47 gear? One of the best lol.

Gear check is just trying to further fracture the community for no reason - Skill is and always will be the main factor and gear is always helpful, a supplement if you will, not the reason someone is good.

I find it more than a little amusing that you would put any type of restriction whatsoever on Ifrit HM it's so ridiculously easy. It might take a freshly minted team in class gear 2~3 minutes more than a super geared team. Are we really going to start bitching about 2~3 minutes?

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Originally Posted by Chiruru53

Try to do garuda HM with undergeared dps and see how long the rocks last and the healers MP lasts because the fight dragged on longer than it needed to. That's where this kinda thing is coming from.

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The post I was replying to was in reference to Ifrit HM, which you get a quest to go into immediately after finishing the main story quest, and is doable under a great number of conditions, not just the BLM/SMN/PLD lots of people seem to insist on. But my point was that if you want to be certain of your group's gear level, don't use Duty Finder. We all know the game lets people queue for things they probably shouldn't, and at least for now we have to take that into account. I wouldn't complain if they changed it (though I think the OP requirements are probably too high), but in the meantime we only have the tools given to us.

Gear checks serve their purpose, but having them for something like AK is ridiculous. This is really SEs fault, they made so many instances, but yet in the end game what do we get? Fresh 50s are best off farming AK. People with 70+ ilvl? Still farming AK. This is almost as big of a design waste as GW2. Make tiered instances for 50, don't make people clash over gear like this.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

I really don't get it - You can buy all the gear you need easily but that doesn't mean squat lol, people can still be bad at their job or have a poor rotation. Just like this PLD in Full DL with their relic - most horrible PLD I've ever seen, yet this PLD in Aetherial 47 gear? One of the best lol.

Gear check is just trying to further fracture the community for no reason - Skill is and always will be the main factor and gear is always helpful, a supplement if you will, not the reason someone is good.

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Like i said show where having gimp gear will make you better than the guy with good gear and skill, I'll wait. Skill alone is not enough.

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Originally Posted by Firon

Like i said show where having gimp gear will make you better than the guy with good gear and skill, I'll wait. Skill alone is not enough.

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Conversely, show where having BiS in all slots automatically makes you a great player. A good player puts good gear to use, but having good gear doesn't automatically make you good at your job. Skill alone isn't enough, but it's much more important than just passing a gear check because I can tell you right now it takes no skill to roll a need or greed on a primal weapon or dungeon loot and walk out with a ilvl 50-60 piece of equipment which will let you pass gear checks for other dungeons.

This is why systems like this doesn't really do anything other than alienate people since the one thing it doesn't take into consideration is player skill, it purely just looks at a number. For example go to the AH, people from 1.0 who sat on certain weapons can unload ilvl 70 weapons that anyone with 20-110k can buy.