1) - Keep the wards but expanded them to include buying straight from item search list but maybe add an extra 5% delivery tax to encourage you to actually go into the ward to pick the item up. This would also help remove a little bit of gill from the economy.
2) - Add filter options and a better layout for the item search lists. Filters for thing like rank, class and so on and then sort them in order high to low and so on.
3) - Also show +1, +2 +3 items in the search list and so on.
4) - Add price history please. To make it so it is more difficult to exploit could you make it so you can see price history for last 20 sold, average price over the week, month, 3 months and so on. That should make it easy to spot if someone is trying to jack the price up or crash it on an item I think.
5) - Add an Item Seek Search so you can have look and see what items people are looking for and sell them if I have them. I also want my retainers to be able to Seek for items even if I currently don't have any of them. It seems silly that you can only seek items that you already have as most of the time you wouldn't be able seeking them if you had them. I believe the Item Seek List will be a big help to give the Wards a much needed boost.
6) - When you search for an item and venture into the wards maybe you could have a different coloured star above the person who is selling the item the cheapest.
7) - Maybe also link all the wards from the other cities. This could help ease congestion in Ul'dah's wards and maybe help stop them crashing so much.
8) - Allow retainers to be called at camps so we can drop off gear or grab something we have stored.
9) - Maybe you could have MW counters in the camps and hamlets, where you could buy items straight from the list but you would have to pay a 15% delivery tax on the item.
Anyone got any more ideas to add to these other than add an AH ^^
If you like the ideas or have any new ones then post them and show your support, if you don't like them then flame me to death ^^
*Casts Barfira*
Ideas to help the Market Wards
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04-25-2011, 06:17 AMAlexiaKiddIdeas to help the Market Wards
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04-25-2011, 07:12 AMAngryNixon
AH in sheep's clothing. However, If (1) is what it takes to make people use a system that is both convenient and also serves the purpose of fooling them into thinking it's not an AH that they're using so they can use it without begrudging it the label associated with it, then so be it.
(2) and (3) are universal suggestions already beaten to death numerous times. If SE isn't aware that these things are important by now for whatever shape their market system takes then abandon all hope.
On (4) I respectfully disagree. Basing the entire system on a war against RMT (let's say more generally those who would seek to exploit the system) is what landed them in a mess or two as it is. The current system with its top 20 results mechanism is just as open to exploitation, should someone care enough to do it, as the AH is. Those who seek to exploit markets, whatever shape they take, can and will attempt it despite the barriers. Despite this, an attempt at monopoly style manipulation of prices and flooding of markets is fleeting. This is especially true of high volume markets. A person cannot indefinitely bend prices to their whims. They will invariably spend most of their time trying to pull the prices back down from where they've risen for the few hours they were away, ultimately only hurting themselves.*
*The short of the above para. is that nobody wins ultimately in undercutting and the manipulation is only temporary at best and doubly so in high volume exchanges.
The system should have a price history to allow the regular player base, on average, to conveniently list their items without having to blindly grope around for the right price every time the item they want to sell isn't listed. As it is people will, generally speaking, fall into line with the top 20 list of results available which is, in effect, a short term price average of what's currently listed if not a proper history. Assuming there is, for higher volume items, always an overlap (This is to say that all 20 "top 20" items will not sell out thereby wiping out knowledge of what the average price currently is before someone else enters the market to list their own item thus replacing someone on that list), you have already effectively created a sort of running price history. Going the step further of having a real, useful and convenient price history isn't going to cause the end of days (or probably change much of anything other than bridging the gap on less frequent items and setting up real trends over time to provide useful forecasts and quick pricing estimates for people).
In respect of (5) this is also a necessity but to it I would add that this should have it's own price history. A history of the prices at which items were sold, to compliment the history of prices at which items were bought. The discrepancies that exist between these two trends should help to pull together the gap between what people are willing to sell something for and what people are willing to buy something for giving you a better estimate of what the item is really worth.
(7) global markets or globally accessible markets are always solid. It also has the benefit decentralizing the common "trade hub" problem by not confining people to one city to access the 'best' or most populous MWs.
(6), (8), (9) no arguments there, convenient is good. -
04-25-2011, 08:19 AMAlexiaKidd
You make some good points, to be honest I was on the fence with the Price History thing. I liked it in FFXI and it did make things more convenient but then I also remembered what people used to do with the price of rings and things. Either way I have changed it to add Price History now as like you say you can't keep doing things to stop RMT's as it will happen no matter what you do so it only punishes the players really.
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04-25-2011, 09:05 AMAngryNixonQuote:
Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd
I'm all for attempting to stop RMTs somehow but, it's easier said than done and if you pursue it as a war of attrition you just end up screwing friend and foe alike.
I think, once the STF is freed up to do their job instead of maybe working on development aspects (I'm perhaps mistakenly assuming the STF is comprised of devs.) then we should see their numbers culled a bit. My own personal approach to getting rid of the RMTs is not to ban them at all but to regularly infiltrate their accounts and wipe out their gil and inventories and claim it was an error.
Just keep tabs on all the people that are confirmed RMTs and keep messing up their accounts (all the while letting them continue paying the sub. fees, this is for when there are sub fees) and claiming "oops.. mistake, can't fix :(".
First, it has the benefit of being amusing and second, instead of banning them and having them create new accounts, you just keep screwing the existing ones. That's less work tracking down their new accounts and character names and twice the cruelty. The RMTs can keep creating new accounts that keep getting screwed periodically but that just means SE can leech more money out of them and periodically delete their gil. The leeches become the leeched.
The ever popular 'ban hammer' is fun and all but ban hammering RMT is like... hitting jello with a hammer.
Evil lala is evil. -
04-25-2011, 09:54 AMRentahamster
SE needs to take advice from Simon Ludgate
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/featur...os_.php?page=5 -
04-25-2011, 10:09 AMAngryNixonHey there's that old article again. Always a recommended read.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rentahamster
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04-25-2011, 02:29 PMPhysic
Well if there is no price history, you can not manipulate the price history, its a simple equation, and it wasnt really rmt only doing it, regular rich players were doing it as well.
having to grope around for a price, and not knowing what things are worth are part of the economy, what is it worth to you? They had an ingame npc mentioning the market wards, saying basically, that you could find huge deals, because some newb might not even know the value of the thing he is selling.
It wasnt a mistake. It was a reason and advantage for people who actually used the market wards, to find deals, also people would actually pay a price that they thought an item was worth.
Now, i do understand that for a lot of people the hassle is simply too much in a game that they want to be more about leveling up and killing epic monsters, but there is nothing wrong with an economy that doesnt post the values of every competitor, and past sale every time you buy an item. I wish it was like that in the real world, too bad its not.
thinking about it now, maybe they should also keep the markets seperate for major cities, things have different value in different areas, or at least even if you can search it, you should still have to pick it up in person. Iron has a different value in a part of the world where its easy to come by. Items used in quests in one area have a different value than in another area, etc. Of course this assumes they eventually get enough people in other towns again that those markets actually have goods. -
04-25-2011, 03:31 PMDavorokI am against buying from the "list counter" because of the overcrowding and Lag it would cause. I would like to be able to track more than 1 item at a time and it needs to track which Wards the Retainers are in. I like the idea of having the lowest price a diff color.Quote:
1) - Keep the wards but expanded them to include buying straight from item search list but maybe add an extra 5% delivery tax to encourage you to actually go into the ward to pick the item up. This would also help remove a little bit of gill from the economy.
These are all needed tweaks I agree with, except on Price History maybe all we need is 1 "Average Price". If a real price history is used I do not want names given. I have personally seen and been a victim of "griefing" because someone is selling an item "too high" or "too low"....whatever, get over it. In an open economy people will overcharge and undercut depending on the market and their own "profit - effort" margins...it's called Capitalism.Quote:
2) - Add filter options and a better layout for the item search lists. Filters for thing like rank, class and so on and then sort them in order high to low and so on.
3) - Also show +1, +2 +3 items in the search list and so on.
4) - Add price history please. To make it so it is more difficult to exploit could you make it so you can see price history for last 20 sold, average price over the week, month, 3 months and so on. That should make it easy to spot if someone is trying to jack the price up or crash it on an item I think.
This is a good suggestion. Perhaps the "Item Seek" could be a counter outside the Wards so we know what items are hot and what peeps are willing to pay.Quote:
5) - Add an Item Seek Search so you can have look and see what items people are looking for and sell them if I have them. I also want my retainers to be able to Seek for items even if I currently don't have any of them. It seems silly that you can only seek items that you already have as most of the time you wouldn't be able seeking them if you had them. I believe the Item Seek List will be a big help to give the Wards a much needed boost.
This is where your tax idea could work. Go ahead and link the 3 cities wards but you have to pay a tax if the item needs to be "transported". The NPC's that used to be in the wards could handle these transactions.Quote:
7) - Maybe also link all the wards from the other cities. This could help ease congestion in Ul'dah's wards and maybe help stop them crashing so much.
This sounds fine to me but giving items to my retainer is cumbersome anyway so I would rather just have a Mailbox to send several items to my retainer at once.Quote:
8) - Allow retainers to be called at camps so we can drop off gear or grab something we have stored.
I'm fine with this too so long as it doesn't create Lag in those areas.Quote:
9) - Maybe you could have MW counters in the camps and hamlets, where you could buy items straight from the list but you would have to pay a 15% delivery tax on the item.
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04-26-2011, 06:57 AMEnthy
Below is walk-through of a Buy/Sell/Trade system I'd like to see in FFXIV.
As a Buyer I'd like to...
1: Be able to run up to a Buy/Sell/Trade counter that is universal within my server (Gridania, Ul'dah, Limsa Lominsa, Ishguard, City X, City Y, City Z, combined on the server I reside on)
2: That is Conveniently placed (scattered through-out the cities. Maybe 20 counters or so per city that are about 50 yalms or so apart to prevent people from clustering in one area of the cities.)
3: Be able to navigate an organized Buy/Sell/Trade menu (Armor fitters, Lower Tailors Row, Middle Tailors Row, Upper Tailors Row, and Jewelers Row's "Crown" and "Eye wear" Should be combined into a "Gear/Armor" category with the sub categories head,body,hands,wrist,waist,legs,feet) The rest of the current menu organization is fine (tanners section, woodcutters section, etc.)
4: See the exact price of "item X" and be able to buy multiples of "item X" for "visible price" without bidding on each item or cycling through the Buy/Sell/Trade menu repeatedly for each item.
5: Obtain the item i just purchased in my inventory immediately.
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As a Seller I'd like to...
6: 1,2, and 3.
7: Be able to look up the price history of items i wish to sell via in-game Buy/Sell/trade menu (rather than look it up on YellowGremlin web site etc.)and see the exact price of other peoples posted items.
8: Be able to place a decent amount of items to sell, both single and stacked.
9: Have the items I wish to sell posted for a decent amount of time (48 real life hours or whatever SE sees fit)
10: receive the gil from my sold items upon visiting a Buy/Sell/Trade counter.
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Things in red...
The things I wrote in red could cause problems.
With everyones asking price visible, undercutting other people becomes very easy.
Without price-visibility, people are forced to spend time guessing the price causing time consuming repeated bidding.
Also without price-visibility, I don't see how I could buy multiple amounts of ore or logs etc. without having to bid on each item or buy a full stack for a set amount.
Feel Free to post your ideas about anything in this post. ^^
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As a Trader I'd like to...
11: 1,2, and 3.
12: See Listings of what people want and what they are willing to trade to get it.
For Example:
Jane Doe wants a "Joker Hat".
Jane Doe Goes to the Buy/Sell/Trade counter.
Jane doe navigates the menu as such; "gear/armor" --> "head" --> "people looking to trade head gear" --> (listing of people that want to trade their head gear)
Jane Doe finds the section of people trying to trade their "Joker Hats".
"Joker Hat" for "Black Boots" and 30,000gil
"Joker Hat" for "Gold helm"
"Joker hat" for "Glitter Coatee"
Jane Doe has a "glitter Coattee" she is willing to trade for a "Joker hat".
Jane Doe makes trade.
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Retainer Bazzars...
I do like the idea of having a bazzar mule but i don't think our main Buy/Sell/Trade system should be set up the way it is at the moment.
I'd say combine all market wards and increase capacity (to get rid of zoning).
Increase Bazzar size (maybe to full inventory).
Allow only one retainer to bazzar at a time (to prevent retainer cluttering).
Keep the item search feature.
I know theres flaws in this section of my post, feel free to comment.
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RMT...
Unfortunately, the more convenient and functional a Buy/Sell/Trade system is, the more RMT thrive. I suggest that when it comes time for a "grand accomplishment" or something the equivalent of FFXI's Relic weapons, SE should makes accomplishing the qest require battles, guild marks, missions, and other things that do not require gil rather than a shopping frenzy that requires gil to obtain the items needed for a relic or whatever SE can think of for a "grand accomplishment".
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That's about all i can think of at the moment. Again, feel free to comment, agree, disagree, or point out flaws.
Thank You for reading~ ^ w ^)v -
04-26-2011, 03:50 PMDavorokVery good ideas but this one is my Favorite.Quote:
3: Be able to navigate an organized Buy/Sell/Trade menu (Armor fitters, Lower Tailors Row, Middle Tailors Row, Upper Tailors Row, and Jewelers Row's "Crown" and "Eye wear" Should be combined into a "Gear/Armor" category with the sub categories head,body,hands,wrist,waist,legs,feet) The rest of the current menu organization is fine (tanners section, woodcutters section, etc.)
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04-26-2011, 11:31 PMBlaiseLallaise
Already discussed to death, but I'll add my opinions.
1. 5% is not enough of a cost to push people towards entering the wards themselves. If the tax was higher, or they had to go to some other location to pick up the delivered goods, then I might be for this idea.
2. Agreed
3. Agreed
4. I always saw the price history as a feature needed in FFXI because the current sale prices were not known. Having removed that factor, I now see no point in having a history.
5. Agreed
6. I don't feel this is necessary. Primarily because it's not too hard to remember a retainer name for the 30 seconds it takes to go from the search counter to their location.
7. Linking is good, but it won't alleviate the problems with Ul'dah's wards. It'll just congest the resulting common wards, leading to the same problem.
8. Personally, I think that's a bit too convenient. However, maybe have an NPC that, for a fee, can 'deliver' items to your retainer. That meaning, you pay some gil and then you literally see your retainer's inventory interface (upon selecting one, of course). This would add yet another needed gil sink.
9. I disagree. That's just a bit too convenient. Even in the hamlets. The hamlets do need to offer players a reason to visit, but not that. A retainer bell, sure, but not a wards interface. -
04-27-2011, 01:26 PMArivessHuh. I'd rather see names, though. What I've seen in FFXI's price history a lot is someone trying to manipulate the prices by constantly buying and selling an item by themselves or with a mule or two, and it really irritates me. It's usually pretty easy to spot with names, though, because even they have multiple mules, it looks something like:Quote:
Originally Posted by Davorok
Player A sells --> Player B buys
Player B sells --> Player C buys
Player C sells --> Player A buys
And so on in a cycle. Without names, you'd never be able to tell. -
04-28-2011, 12:54 AMAngryNixonI agree completely. Names should be shown so that, in the instances where someone decides to play the monopolist and attempt some sort of price manipulation however fleeting, those who do it without stealth will be immediately evident.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arivess
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04-28-2011, 03:39 AMRentahamsterYes. Agreed wholeheartedly.Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryNixon
An open history that goes back at least a year is a good thing. Transparency helps. -
04-28-2011, 04:28 AMAngryNixonQuoted for (Truth of Forests)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rentahamster