You don't need to know how to play well

There are plenty of posts out there asking for challenge, end-game content or any other such thing.

Challenge means a lot of different things from having to solo using excellent strategy and gear, to coordinate attacks in small parties or to bring together a large number of players.

I'm not even really talking about any of those things in this post.

In FFXIV right now, you don't need to know how to play your class at all. You level up in behest and in guild leves, which is fine, but during those leves you don't need do do anything more than auto-attack. If you wanted to make things go a little faster you could throw in some weapon skills, but there's usually one best option there. The result is that most players go from 1-50 only needing two buttons.

A sad example of this is that from rank 1 to 50 there's a very good chance that a gladiator will never have tanked a mob. They might have gotten hit, but the person getting hit rarely matters in behest or leves.

I know there's a combat overhaul coming and I'm excited about that. I'm also VERY excited about the use of the words 'job system.' Yoshi-p has also said that classes/jobs will be made more unique. All of this is good, but I also want to bring attention to a simple fact about the way we level/rank up now -

A large part of the problem with class/job uniqueness and the FF feel of the game is that most of what we have RIGHT NOW is not being used. The encounters themselves are lacking. Overhauling combat will not change the way behest and guild leves are played. If all of the classes/jobs are made more unique that's great, but if we're relying on auto-attack plus one weapon skill to get through the battles nothing meaningful has changed. SE has said that we won't be able to win with just auto-attack, and that's a good start (as right now basic attacks can win a leve or behest battle), but we need to know that strategic use of all of our abilities will be meaningful, if not necessary to winning a battle.

I think these forums just got /zoz


In all seriousness though, I completely agree with said OP. I can imagine that a lot of people are getting excited (read: cautiously optimistic) about the upcoming addition of the job system, but having class identity and definite roles in parties wont mean jack diddly if the combat mechanics of leves and behest are RADICALLY changed. Im hoping (and begging) that SE have taken this into consideration and that improved battle mechanics and the job system are introduced simultaneously.

I agree with what is being said by the OP. This game needs to be more difficult. Currently you can beat it with auto-attack.

Yeah I also hope the combat system revamp also adjusts mob difficulty so that mobs aren't a complete joke.

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Originally Posted by Majidah

I agree with what is being said by the OP. This game needs to be more difficult. Currently you can beat it with auto-attack.

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You can beat the NMs and stronger normal monsters with juat normal attacks, no skills or heals? Pretty amazing...I would love a video for personal reference.

NM's aren't very difficult either, the entire combat system sucks.

The battle system does not suck as it is, however I welcome changes because I'm not afraid of them. I trust the dev team to put out something great.

That being said, there does need to be a lot more difficulty in the content. If something is difficult and you can't win by just using normal attacks it will force you to learn your job properly. Once the battle changes, enmity recalculations and endgame content hit we'll hopefully see more of this.

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Originally Posted by Zozor

I know there's a combat overhaul coming and I'm excited about that. I'm also VERY excited about the use of the words 'job system.' Yoshi-p has also said that classes/jobs will be made more unique. All of this is good, but I also want to bring attention to a simple fact about the way we level/rank up now

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You said it yourself, they've said it multiple times. They know the combat is borked right now and are fixing it, why open a whole new topic to say something so redundant? Seriously.

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Originally Posted by Colino

You said it yourself, they've said it multiple times. They know the combat is borked right now and are fixing it, why open a whole new topic to say something so redundant? Seriously.

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I started the thread because a combat overhaul isn't going to do anything about leve/behest.

We have a tonne of abilities we don't use right now. If they change the nature of those but leves and behest don't change then we're not going to see a meaningful difference in play style.

I think the lack of exp loss as a death penalty is partly the reason too.

Half of the time I think I'm probably doing too high lvl leves as I keep dying all the time but it isn't really changing the rate at which I gain new levels especially now after the recent harder mobs give more xp change.

Sorry that I'm talking about xp as sp. I think I'm just too old-skool for this or any of the modern rgps =(

Can we please get a dev post on this one ^_^

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Originally Posted by Zozor

In FFXIV right now, you don't need to know how to play your class at all. You level up in behest and in guild leves, which is fine, but during those leves you don't need do do anything more than auto-attack.

If all of the classes/jobs are made more unique that's great, but if we're relying on auto-attack plus one weapon skill to get through the battles nothing meaningful has changed.

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What auto attack?

This game definitely needs to be harder but... LOL I really don't get the people that goes from 1 to 50 with normal attacks, what's the point of playing if you're choosing the most boring way of doing it? :D I mean, you CAN do it since the game is this easy, but what's the point? I play to have fun, not to smash my 1 button...

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Originally Posted by Zozor

A sad example of this is that from rank 1 to 50 there's a very good chance that a gladiator will never have tanked a mob. They might have gotten hit, but the person getting hit rarely matters in behest or leves.

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One of the reasons for this is because everything is too damn easy, and requires no challenge due to the fact, that you can only fight stuff 10 ranks higher than you, max before SP gain is capped. I touched on this in an earlier post.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-How-to-Fix-it

this is completely accurate, most people never learn to play thier jobs on the current system of sp gains. 10 level max difference, and behest on too weak mobs.
Then they think combat has no depth, mostly because they never have to play right, and never see what enemies can do, also they basically all stay at one leve area.
Combat changes are irrelevant if nothing requires people to use thier skills, previous sp system you got sp for fighting higher level stuff and doing actions that counted, so it was fine to have easy stuff, but now you get the most sp, fighting things which you can probably solo. and in a group die before you can pull out a weapon.

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Originally Posted by Physic

previous sp system you got sp for fighting higher level stuff and doing actions that counted,

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Well, not really. We just had spam casting cure I and sacrifice I, as well as using worthless TP moves just because they had a status effect proc that would add more SP.

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Originally Posted by Zozor

I started the thread because a combat overhaul isn't going to do anything about leve/behest.

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And you know that how?

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We have a tonne of abilities we don't use right now. If they change the nature of those but leves and behest don't change then we're not going to see a meaningful difference in play style.

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While I would welcome an higher level of challenge (but in ALL mmorpgs truly challenging content always comes down the lines, when the combat system is solidified), there IS quite a big difference in efficency between people that use most of their skills with a good degree of ability, and those that spam 1 1 1 1 1.
This not to mention that I'd very much like to see a group doing raptors where the tank doesn't use at least some of his tanking abilities. The casters are gonna be dead every 2 minutes.
Killing more efficently -> Sizable advantage. It's quite simple.

the previous SP system sucked but made me a lot more active and on my toes

The previous sp system did suck, but sometimes I think getting sp for the actions you do is the only fair way to get sp, will it work in this game ...probably not...I mean we all tried it and hated getting 400 sp for one mob and 0 sp for the next for no random reason. Some people didn't even play then and don't remember the "dark ages of XIV", we're only in the middle ages now, hoping to see renaissance sometime in future.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

And you know that how?

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Well, it's a reasonable assumption, considering that the problem with easy leve mobs has more to do with the 10 rank dlvl cap.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-How-to-Fix-it

Naturally we're all hoping that the overhaul fixes all of this stuff. It's possible that it will - but this may make some of the issues a little clearer. The clearer the issues are the more likely they are to be resolved.