Eventual Economic Disaster

Several people in my LS and I were discussing the lack of ability to introduce new gil into the economy today. After you hit level 50 the opportunities you have to actually introduce any significant amount of gil into the world is more or less nil. Sure you can do levequests and whatnot for a whopping 3-400 gil each but when you only get a few of those a day it ultimately doesnt even counterbalance repairing your gear.

between teleports, npc repairs, npc vendors, the 5% cut from the marketboard, airship costs, etc. gil is constantly being removed from the world environment without having any way to effectively replace it... eventually this is going to kill the economy.

any thoughts?

my thoughts would be for you to use the search function instead of creating your own special snowflake thread

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Originally Posted by bajaben94

Several people in my LS and I were discussing the lack of ability to introduce new gil into the economy today. After you hit level 50 the opportunities you have to actually introduce any significant amount of gil into the world is more or less nil. Sure you can do levequests and whatnot for a whopping 3-400 gil each but when you only get a few of those a day it ultimately doesnt even counterbalance repairing your gear.

between teleports, npc repairs, npc vendors, the 5% cut from the marketboard, airship costs, etc. gil is constantly being removed from the world environment without having any way to effectively replace it... eventually this is going to kill the economy.

any thoughts?

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Just a quick question... Ever played FFXI?

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Originally Posted by Taral

Just a quick question... Ever played FFXI?

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I have, economy was perfectly fine until gilsellers did their $1 per Million sale on xmas 2005.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

I have, economy was perfectly fine until gilsellers did their $1 per Million sale on xmas 2005.

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I remember that all to painfully...

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Originally Posted by Taral

Just a quick question... Ever played FFXI?

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Quick question... what's your point? I played FFXI. It had plenty of ways to introduce new gil into the economy, and with less gil sinks (airships were fixed rate, teleports didn't remove gil from the economy to name a few differences) it worked fine, it was balanced quite well I thought. You could spend time fishing and actually make a decent profit. You could craft items simply to vendor and make profit worth your time, at least until gilsellers ruined it.

FFXI is a different situation from XIV. It was designed with enough inputs to counterbalance the outputs. In FFXIV however the player base as a whole operates at a trade deficit... and we can't take out bonds from the empire to cover the difference.

Oh yeah, to the OP: you should have added your comments to this thread instead of starting your own. The search function is your friend.

SE made crafting useless and materia is useless when it gives you zero for the stats actually need. with that said mats dont fly off the MW either thanks to crafting the way it is. wow you can craft relic weapons base and thats about it.

you get equipment for free from dungeons and quest, buy GC gear theres no need for buying & selling. SE really messed up right there. MMO where NPC's dominate the economy is fail no matter what you wanna believe.

in 1.0 you had a constant cash flow from day 1 because nothing was free or easy to get and crafting actually had the best gear for most the games life and that means mats flew off the MW, in 2.0 all that went out the window.

I have to agree but I'm hoping that since the game is a whopping 1.5 weeks old there is a bit of time for adjustments to be made and things to be added. Heck they are just now getting the servers stable enough to log in. Why does it feel like everyone wants to rush and beat everything before their free trial is over. At the pace everyone is rushing to end game the economy won't matter. Everyone will be sitting in town chatting about how they have nothing to do.

Remove cost for teleporting, where does that money go anyway? With an airship it goes to the attendant at least, makes some sense, but why charge me gill to use a learned ability.

Also remove equipment repair, it's an annoyance, some call it realism, I call it lame.

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Originally Posted by SinisterJoint

my thoughts would be for you to use the search function instead of creating your own special snowflake thread

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^ someones time of the month sadly

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Originally Posted by Slickpig

Remove cost for teleporting, where does that money go anyway?

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Happy Uldah merchants, they funded the new aetherytes after the old ones broke in the Calamity and Atomos ate the rest, NPCs near them tell you about it.

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Originally Posted by indira

SE made crafting useless and materia is useless when it gives you zero for the stats actually need. with that said mats dont fly off the MW either thanks to crafting the way it is. wow you can craft relic weapons base and thats about it.

you get equipment for free from dungeons and quest, buy GC gear theres no need for buying & selling. SE really messed up right there. MMO where NPC's dominate the economy is fail no matter what you wanna believe.

in 1.0 you had a constant cash flow from day 1 because nothing was free or easy to get and crafting actually had the best gear for most the games life and that means mats flew off the MW, in 2.0 all that went out the window.

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Agreed.

What's odd is DoL/H classes are an FFXIV uniqueness and have the potential to be some of the most interesting content in the game.

Instead Square Enix treats them like the runt of the litter. Insane amount of wasted potential here.

I don't see how this has been brought up so many times and noone really mentioned the most important part.....

SE want the economy to drain a bit. Thats why they removed a decimal from 1.0 currency base. They want to even out the gil as much as they can (obv hoarders will be an anomaly) and then I assume they will bring in gil with a patch (increasing quests, dungeon drops, dailies, increase guildleves or a combination) which will easily allow them a soft reset on the economy without a total crash or wipe.

I agree earning money is hard, quests give little fates next to none, and next to the cost of travel repairs and teleports you lose much of it really really fast.

vendoring old items and mats give hardly anything at all.

I am struggling to keep mine over 10k atm.

Easy fix would be up the reward from fates, and vendoring goods.

The game is new so balancing will be something that happens over time.
But atm it is an issue.

I reached 50 last week..enjoyed the story and fate climb tremendously. Tried raising my gathering classes but by lvl 22 the mind numbing boredom just killed me, and that was using leves', same goes with crafting, got 17 alch and 20 gsm then crashed and burned. Next, tried several dungeons using the duty finder which guarantee's 1 or 2 members are noobs which = wipes, which = high repairs. Anyways I could see my gil steadily going down. So here I am at end game, don't like crafting, don't like gathering, and can't afford to dungeon or teleport. I took a couple days off to recharge but I'm at a standstill and wont be logging in until they either add dailies to supplement our gil or eliminate repair costs. Don't see either happening any time soon so I prolly won't be subbing. Ah well...still got my moneys worth with the betas etc.

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Originally Posted by slam9000

I reached 50 last week..enjoyed the story and fate climb tremendously. Tried raising my gathering classes but by lvl 22 the mind numbing boredom just killed me, and that was using leves', same goes with crafting, got 17 alch and 20 gsm then crashed and burned. Next, tried several dungeons using the duty finder which guarantee's 1 or 2 members are noobs which = wipes, which = high repairs. Anyways I could see my gil steadily going down. So here I am at end game, don't like crafting, don't like gathering, and can't afford to dungeon or teleport. I took a couple days off to recharge but I'm at a standstill and wont be logging in until they either add dailies to supplement our gil or eliminate repair costs. Don't see either happening any time soon so I prolly won't be subbing. Ah well...still got my moneys worth with the betas etc.

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The thing that hurts the most is. . . . Yoshi listens to this ppl. . . .

Yoshida mentioned on the beta forums about introducing daily quests, those could be the supply of gil.

Guys have faith that they will be adding boatloads of content. I'm not saying this in a negative way but do realize that they had to rush the development quite a bit. I think they did a fine job but at the same time they had to get a functioning game out the door as quick as possible. Now that the game is out, revenue will start flowing again and the devs will be able to breath and address all these issues and then some. The game will evolve and be great, at least for those with more than 30 days patience.

I don't understand where these threads keep coming from, I know I'm not exactly "endgame" yet but I do have about 150k just from doing quests. I accept the allagan rewards because I rarely need the items thanks to dungeon crawls, and I honestly make more and more every day. I do complete almost all of the side quests in every area the main storyline takes me. Did you start off with a lot like I am approaching endgame and then spend it all once you got there?

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

I have, economy was perfectly fine until gilsellers did their $1 per Million sale on xmas 2005.

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This one remembers this extremely well, knew quite a few who bought millions and banked it even after SE did the mass banning, that single event screwed the economy for years.

It seems to me like the crafting jobs really got neglected from 1.0 to ARR.

It seemed as though the community relied on Crafters to make the best gear in 1.0.
In ARR it seems not so needed, and borderline a waste of time.

perhaps im missing something, but all my gears are currently quest rewards, Dungeon drops, or Company Seals equipment.
there seems to be little or now reason to utilize Crafted gear.

perhaps this will change as the game matures?

Currently a Lv 34 Scholar.

Agreed on the uselesness of crafted gear.

I'm a lvl 50 weaver and I just cant find any gear i could craft for a profit, the only thing I can do is craft materials that other weavers use to lvl up.
The red rewards from dungeons make crafted gear completely useless and who's going to spend any gil on buying something with materia before lvl 50? Whatever you buy would be outdated in a couple hours.

on the plus side, this system ensures that gil buying is practically meaningless since sources of great gear and materials are abundant.

i think this is more of a case of people not getting used to the idea of not carrying millions of currency. the fact that all you need is a few thousand gil is probably hard to get for some people.

They really need to add some level 50 leves that give you say 1,000 gil per completion or something because currently the 495gil per quest is a tad too low and boring as hell, especially with the repair costs being a bit higher than normal. The money sink in the game is going to kill off the economy in the game is no one has the ability to make gil after level 50, apart from selling materials or items, but players who bought those things will soon be in the same position.

Adding gil from each mob you kill (depending on level)
Adding a gil reward for completing a Duty Finder
Adding new level 50 levequests

Also remove the damn damage cost when doing gathering/crafting.

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Originally Posted by M0xie

I don't understand where these threads keep coming from, I know I'm not exactly "endgame" yet but I do have about 150k just from doing quests. I accept the allagan rewards because I rarely need the items thanks to dungeon crawls, and I honestly make more and more every day. I do complete almost all of the side quests in every area the main storyline takes me. Did you start off with a lot like I am approaching endgame and then spend it all once you got there?

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You missed the point of the threads, yes we all have that sort of money, I infact had 300k when i hit 50, but after that there is only sinks, after you do all your quests there is no way to generate gil for the economy....unless you count the shitty dungeon drops and PQ rewards... I dont.

Upon hitting 50, you will not generate much gil, you will spend what you have on repairs and teleporting, if you're lucky, you will break even.

From what I have heard from many legacy players. A good amount of them brought tons of gil over from 1.0. SE is most likely waiting for that to die down a bit and be sunk, before introducing any meaningful ways of making new gil

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Originally Posted by rocco1986

From what I have heard from many legacy players. A good amount of them brought tons of gil over from 1.0. SE is most likely waiting for that to die down a bit and be sunk, before introducing any meaningful ways of making new gil

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I think you're right. They decimated legacy players' gil and also reduced NPC prices to 1/10th of what they originally were. There was obviously too much gil floating around in 1.0. I think they will be watching the economy closely though, to make sure it doesn't implode as the OP suggested.

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Originally Posted by Quesse

Agreed.

What's odd is DoL/H classes are an FFXIV uniqueness and have the potential to be some of the most interesting content in the game.

Instead Square Enix treats them like the runt of the litter. Insane amount of wasted potential here.

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Thats probably because letting crafters and gatherers stranglehold the economy and player progression is not exactly fun for those who aren't playing the markets or simply don't enjoy crafting.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

I have, economy was perfectly fine until gilsellers did their $1 per Million sale on xmas 2005.

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And you conveniently forgot that what led to it was stupid things like "WTH you don't have a scorpion harness/haubergeon +1 and dual sniper rings +1 and a 3 stacks of sole sushi +1?!?!?!? /kick", which meant that to stay up to par you were either farming beehive chips ad nauseum or getting your gil from less than legitimate means.

The game's focus on rarity and several other boneheaded decisions by XI's devs only made gil sellers that much more prosperous.

You want gold sinks that will take even more money out of the economy? Imagine how many now are trying to save up on gil and stuff to buy a house? amount of gill to buy a medium house? apparently 3 times the amount of leveling a class to 50. I'm not sure if that's doing the minimal amount of quests or perhaps getting nothing but the gil reward when the option appears. Right now I've heard people getting up to 350k from the main story line alone. so for a medium house, is that roughly 1.05 million gil? and for a large house, it could be 6 times for a leveled character. well over 2 million gil. For legacy players it's probably nothing, still a drop in the bucket from when they played years ago. but once that money is gone, it's gone. and there will probably be a lot less gil running around servers. I know I'll blow my cash getting some form of housing.

It was easy enough to get it this time, but when you had quests that gave you 5k gold in one sitting, and chains with similar rewards, you get 20k gold in less then a half hour. doing leves at level 50. let's see... if you get 550 gil say for doing a leve, and doing it in reasonable time. if you have 100 leves fully to spend, thats going to be... 55k...wow. That really doesn't seem like a lot for all that effort. and there is an achievement for earning 10 million gil through leves?! how long does SE expect people to mindlessly grind these leve quests, especially when eventually it'll run out, and the refresh rate will be back to 3 per 12 hours. Let's do the math. if you were to start off at 0 leves, and you only got 6 leves a day due to the cycle, to reach 10 million gil, it would take you 3,030 days to reach, at level 50 no less. Unless there are leves I haven't gotten to yet (so I've only seen leves of 45) then thats way, way to long to try and grind for gil. thats 8 bloody years.