Warrior as off tanks

I think that regardless of what you have as a main tank, each raid group should use a warrior as an offtank. Not because they are inferior (I have no clue as to if they are good/bad as main tanks, being a paladin and all), but because in single mob situations, from what I can tell, warriors can actually put out decent dps when out of tank stance. On my paladin I feel like I hit bosses like a wet noodle in sword oath when I'm not tanking. Outside of being a stunbot on hm ifrit, I think having at least one warrior in the raid will be hugely beneficial.

Thoughts/comments?

I Main a warrior and i do agree here. If there is need for two tanks and the other is a PLD, then i will let him do his thing till i need to step in to give him a break. I can tank alone perfectly fine, but if theres a PLD they should be "Main Tank" only for the reason that Warriors can do dmg when 2 tanks are not necessary. Lets face it a PLD not tanking is more or less worthless.

Your post makes sense but it does mean that Paladins will be in less demand than warriors in raids if you only need to bring one Paladin. Looks like I'd better level for a Warrior as well as a Paladin.

This is useful and I agree,I will definitely take this and apply it to my game play.

Problem with a WAR DPSing is that they tend to take all the hate with their most power rotations.

You'd have to have a really good PLD that knows when to use Provoke to keep up with hate build up.

Good thing is that the healers shouldn't be getting any hate.

I sense a rebalancing coming soon to PLD, as it is now PLD's are imba on 90% of the circumstances. WAR is just better in all aspects, more DPS, more HP, better at holding multiple aggro.

WAR is more DPS, more HP, better at *AOE aggro.

...but doesn't the pally still take less damage on single target over the course of long fights? (I'm asking not stating.. I don't know the current theory-crafting)

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Originally Posted by Myrthele

WAR is more DPS, more HP, better at *AOE aggro.

...but doesn't the pally still take less damage on single target over the course of long fights? (I'm asking not stating.. I don't know the current theory-crafting)

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Yes but the difference is miniscule compared to the disadvantages. Thats why i said PLD needs rebalancing.

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Originally Posted by Myrthele

...but doesn't the pally still take less damage on single target over the course of long fights?

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PAL takes less damage, but the two require a similar level of healing thanks to the Mara self heals.

As to whether there needs to be some degree of rebalancing, I'm not entirely sure. I haven't done any kind of side-by-side comparison (though every healer I run with tells me that I'm infinitely better than the PALs they've run with, though that might just be a level and/or player thing).

No offense, but the lot of you have no idea what you're talking about.

Level and experience both jobs in actual endgame content, all of it, before you make such bold claims.

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Originally Posted by Kal-El

Problem with a WAR DPSing is that they tend to take all the hate with their most power rotations.

You'd have to have a really good PLD that knows when to use Provoke to keep up with hate build up.

Good thing is that the healers shouldn't be getting any hate.

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Wat. Single target, I've competed/won single target against wars in lvl 50 8 mans. If they aren't in their tank stance (which doubles enmity) then they would have no chance of keeping aggro off me. If you look at the single target abilities of each class, the main combos for each are just about the same. If they aren't in tank stance, they shouldn't be able to pull aggro off a real tank.

I think people are judging Warrior and Paladin too much prior to the Raids. Raids are going to be the true end game and are going to bring multiple aspects to each boss encounter. Right now Warriors are better all around, yes, but that's because of the current state of the game. The Primals aren't hitting hard enough to where Paladins are in a real need. Are Paladins bad? No way. Paladins are great are sustaining themselves along with taking bigger hits. Warriors are better AoE Tanks are better tanks for when bit damage is about to come out (because of their HP Increase/Steal abilities.)

When more end game does come out I believe we are going to see a lot of Paladin single tanking with Warrior swapping in when the boss is about to do big AoE or Single target damage. I also think we are going to see fights where Warrior is going to be the best bet as a main tank and Paladin off tanking single adds and what not.

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Originally Posted by Kal-El

Problem with a WAR DPSing is that they tend to take all the hate with their most power rotations.

You'd have to have a really good PLD that knows when to use Provoke to keep up with hate build up.

Good thing is that the healers shouldn't be getting any hate.

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If a Warrior isn't tanking they shouldn't be using Skull Sunder > Butcher's Block to do damage. They should be using Maim > Storm's Eye/Storm's Path (as needed for HP). I personally only use Skull Sunder > Butcher's Block to maintain #2 on the hate list when not tanking just in case.

I read in an interview from the developers (Yoshi-P I think to be specific), he mentioned making tanks more attractive to players to level, which could mean both tanks getting additional "buffs" (for soloing) (as we all know both jobs can sufficiently tank all the content just fine how it is currently). Now I don't have a pld leveled beyond 15, but Plds do have a "dps" type stance where auto attack is increased. Maybe (and I'm actually kinda hoping for this), they'll add more to that stance and give the Warrior one as well that's essentially the opposite of defiance. Where it's increased damage, with a health penalty and still gives the wraith buff (to use the abilities that use it)?

Don't get me wrong, I *Love* my warrior, and I'm very happy where my job is right now, but if they were to do this, I could see adding this type of thing into the game could allow the tanks to do dps when there's not a need for 2 tanks in one fight (but the raid still requires 2 in other fights) without gimping the raid dps.

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Originally Posted by Shyle

I read in an interview from the developers (Yoshi-P I think to be specific), he mentioned making tanks more attractive to players to level, which could mean both tanks getting additional "buffs" (for soloing) (as we all know both jobs can sufficiently tank all the content just fine how it is currently). Now I don't have a pld leveled beyond 15, but Plds do have a "dps" type stance where auto attack is increased. Maybe (and I'm actually kinda hoping for this), they'll add more to that stance and give the Warrior one as well that's essentially the opposite of defiance. Where it's increased damage, with a health penalty and still gives the wraith buff (to use the abilities that use it)?

Don't get me wrong, I *Love* my warrior, and I'm very happy where my job is right now, but if they were to do this, I could see adding this type of thing into the game could allow the tanks to do dps when there's not a need for 2 tanks in one fight (but the raid still requires 2 in other fights) without gimping the raid dps.

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I could see them easily adding in a more dps dependent version of the war tanking buff but on the possible second Mrd class job. Maybe call the job Berserker and the stance give +25% health {same as original} -20% defense {replaces the +emnity and dmg reduction portion} and the ability to build wrath stacks.

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Originally Posted by Cocytus

I could see them easily adding in a more dps dependent version of the war tanking buff but on the possible second Mrd class job. Maybe call the job Berserker and the stance give +25% health {same as original} -20% defense {replaces the +emnity and dmg reduction portion} and the ability to build wrath stacks.

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Don't see why they would make a second class to maruader still use wrath stacks... I'd hope they would put more thought into it and make the class more unique.

is that possible with one character?