It's not the GAMES FAULT people, it's the PLAYERS

Just thought I'd be the one to say this.. but when you break it all down, it's not the "Game" at fault here. The game, EG: the quests, story line, graphics and all that - work fine. Some bugs were/are present, but that's expected of any game "fresh released".


The 1017 comes from 1 overlooked thing, and only 1.
Square Enix didn't think it would be required to limit Player Creation Limits to the max population limit on each world. Ideally - no one would ever think of this, because players would log in during "their time" play, and log out/get kicked in any other game.

The release had a Population BOOM effect, servers filled up so quickly they couldn't even be monitored how fast or react in time, so some servers, like Behemoth - were completely filled, and had MORE characters created after they were full, leaving everyone to a 1017 war.

Similar effects spread to all the servers as the days went on, especially as the instant success spread and everyone bought out every copy they could.

Some servers, were LUCKY - they got locked and limited right around their population limits, so it's rare to see 1017 on them, or not at all.


Let's throw some artificial numbers in here to help.

Let's say that each world has a limit of 5,000 players. Pretty good, considering the world size and locations.

If 20,000 people made characters on 1 world - that means that, at best, 1/4 would log in and be online, if they AFK, or whatever - they wouldn't open slots for anyone else.

This means that 15,000 players (or 3 servers worth, if indeed 5k is the limit) are sitting trying to log in, getting 1017 over and over again.


Behemoth would be one of those servers, with "too many characters" created, not enough room to play.


So sure, IF they would have thought about population limits from the get-go they MIGHT have prevented this problem - but honestly, they even stated they didn't expect it to pick up in popularity this fast, in face the "new servers coming" in the "Big Maintenance" were planned for later release when the game was "expected to become popular and need them"

The real thing that angers many is how they are "working on things"


Can't find the original now and too lazy, so just copy/pasting instead of quoting, but they stated this on "AFK kicking"

""Resolving AFK Character Issues

From several users on some of our more congested Worlds, we have received requests for a feature which automatically logs out characters who are AFK for an extended period of time. We are actively looking into the implementation of such a feature, but have decided to first concentrate our efforts on increasing the number of Worlds and optimizing the Duty Finder servers.""


I'd like you to look at that last part again:
but have decided to first concentrate our efforts on increasing the number of Worlds and optimizing the Duty Finder servers.

This means instead of dealing with the maybe 1K players AFK on every server, they are instead trying to focus on New Servers and... sadly some BS IN game feature that most of us have never used, or only barely used.

But... in the reality of it, kicking 1K players means only 1K other players will join in nearly instantly with the Over-Congestion problem, and until they "AFK" long enough, they won't get kicked... etc.

The main problem is still "too many characters on one server" and AFK kicking does NOT resolve that.


Players... need to do the following:


1- Log out when not playing.
2- Consider Re-Rolling if they haven't been able to get on a server
3- Transfer to a new World (if a service ever becomes available)
4- Take time to plan out your friends joining

2 and 3 both help both the new servers become populated, and the old servers relieve congestion, and are the BEST steps, especially if a "Free Transfer" becomes available.


The server side of things, though, needs to change slightly. If the 'new servers' don't have any character limits (or aren't carefully watched while they fill up when released) they will become congested as well, never resolving the issue.


It doesn't matter if they add another 5,000 slots for players to play , most of the servers would still be FULL and 1017 to many, what matters is getting the congestion off the server all together.

Adding too many slots to a server will only bog it down, especially if no AFK program is implemented, so let's avoid that all together by being more intelligent about how to resolve this.


I, am re-rolling then deleting my main. I'd delete it now, but then I'd be locked out of the forums,and I need something to pass the time.

How about you? Are you "Man enough" to re-roll?

I'm a paying customer. I shouldn't have to do anything but click play and enjoy.

so POOR planning by SE equals the players fault?

makes sense i guess

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Originally Posted by AlienWacKo

so POOR planning by SE equals the players fault?

makes sense i guess

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Lol. /10 char.

It IS the all the players' fault. SquareEnix DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG. LEAVE SQUARENIX ALONE!

Lulz at all those that didn't actually read anything but the title, because the title was intended to troll while the post was informative.

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Originally Posted by Kissker

Lulz at all those that didn't actually read anything but the title, because the title was intended to troll while the post was informative.

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Informative is.... questionable.

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Originally Posted by A5ko

Informative is.... questionable.

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Your lack of level is, questionable.

(and this will clear up those that don't know sarcasm, as he is level 50 and always got on, and probably never saw 1017)

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Originally Posted by Kissker

Your lack of level is, questionable.

(and this will clear up those that don't know sarcasm, as he is level 50 and always got on, and probably never saw 1017)

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Level 50 - Correct, Legacy Player - Right on.

Not been able to play since Phase 4....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Coconuts

It IS the all the players' fault. SquareEnix DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG. LEAVE SQUARENIX ALONE!

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We got a special one here!

I am neither going to defend or place all the blame on either side.
In my opinion, the fault of the current situation lies on both sides.

The problem stems from SE not being prepared and having enough servers and not having systems to regulate the server populations (AFK Kicker, Server Population Display, etc.).
They admitted the fault on their part and are trying to fix the problems and make up for their mistakes.
Whether what they are doing is enough is up the individual.

The problems have however been made worse by the players by doing things like logging in and leaving themselves logged in, causing server congestion and not allowing others to be able to get into the game. Whether or not this behavior is justified due to the state of things and the mistakes made by SE is again up to the individual.

So to put it simply, SE made mistakes that caused the current problems but we, the players, have helped to make it worse.

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Originally Posted by Kissker

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-J_Rq8yro-I....png-610x0.png

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Yoshi said in an interview recently that they're looking at AFK kicking if it's still necessary after this maintenance. I bet if we make enough noise they'll also give us free server migrations (eventually).

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Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

So to put it simply, SE made mistakes that caused the current problems but we, the players, have helped to make it worse.

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Yet we are the paying customers. Why shouldn't we want to log in and play?

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Originally Posted by A5ko

Level 50 - Correct, Legacy Player - Right on.

Not been able to play since Phase 4....

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Exactly the issue at hand. 1017 is just simply "too many players on one server" How exactly "adding new servers" will fix this without stating more information - is questionable at best. If they allow character transfers, then yes, if they increase population limits - then yes, but otherwise... the next move could very well be a full SE faulted thing. And not just a SE oversight and a Massive Player Overload problem

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Originally Posted by Kissker

Lulz at all those that didn't actually read anything but the title, because the title was intended to troll while the post was informative.

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regardless if it was informative or not, his whole post is about stuff that SE themselves are supposed to take into consideration IE, planning. The launch disaster itself is simply poor planning, even yoshi said that, with excuses for it though. There really is no excuse IMO. If this was where i work and i was responsible for this mess i would have been fired already! Yes this may be the norm for mmo's but that is only because if they over plan and than have to scale back it looks as though they are failing rather then optimizing. It's a lose lose situation really!

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Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

The problems have however been made worse by the players by doing things like logging in and leaving themselves logged in, causing server congestion and not allowing others to be able to get into the game. Whether or not this behavior is justified due to the state of things and the mistakes made by SE is again up to the individual.

.

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The above is still SE's fault and the result of poor planning, the above is easily taken care of in 99% of other mmo's that has a built in auto kick AFK feature. Yes i know you can script around that via macros/bots but the majority of players would have no clue how to do so. the Auto AFK kick while in of itself would not resolve the issues but would allow for more players getting there chance to play!

HOW DARE YOU PEOPLE BUY THIS PRODUCT

HOW

FUCKING

DARE

YOU

IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT FOR BUYING THE GAME THIS WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED IF YOU'D JUST KEPT YOUR DAMN MONEY TO YOURSELF IT'S ALL YOUR FAAAAAUUUULLT

I didn't read the post because I just assumed that that's ^ what it said. I also assume that OP is a virgin who lives in their mom's house and will get super butthurt that I just called them a virgin.

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So sure, IF they would have thought about population limits from the get-go they MIGHT have prevented this problem - but honestly, they even stated they didn't expect it to pick up in popularity this fast

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So what you mean is they are ignorant? Because they knew full well by the amount of pre-sales and these very same issues in Beta 4 that it was going to be a problem. They chose to ignore it and go ahead with the launch anyway instead of getting things in order before launching.

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Originally Posted by A5ko

Yet we are the paying customers. Why shouldn't we want to log in and play?

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We should want to log in and play, also we should be able to.
I never stated otherwise, I actually said that the initial cause of the problems was due to SE not being prepared which was a mistake on their end.
I also stated that because of players doing things like keeping themselves logged in while going AFK for extended periods of time, that it is making the initial problems worse.

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Originally Posted by Kissker

Just thought I'd be the one to say this.. but when you break it all down, it's not the "Game" at fault here. The game, EG: the quests, story line, graphics and all that - work fine. Some bugs were/are present, but that's expected of any game "fresh released".


The 1017 comes from 1 overlooked thing, and only 1.
Square Enix didn't think it would be required to limit Player Creation Limits to the max population limit on each world. Ideally - no one would ever think of this, because players would log in during "their time" play, and log out/get kicked in any other game.

The release had a Population BOOM effect, servers filled up so quickly they couldn't even be monitored how fast or react in time, so some servers, like Behemoth - were completely filled, and had MORE characters created after they were full, leaving everyone to a 1017 war.

Similar effects spread to all the servers as the days went on, especially as the instant success spread and everyone bought out every copy they could.

Some servers, were LUCKY - they got locked and limited right around their population limits, so it's rare to see 1017 on them, or not at all.


Let's throw some artificial numbers in here to help.

Let's say that each world has a limit of 5,000 players. Pretty good, considering the world size and locations.

If 20,000 people made characters on 1 world - that means that, at best, 1/4 would log in and be online, if they AFK, or whatever - they wouldn't open slots for anyone else.

This means that 15,000 players (or 3 servers worth, if indeed 5k is the limit) are sitting trying to log in, getting 1017 over and over again.


Behemoth would be one of those servers, with "too many characters" created, not enough room to play.


So sure, IF they would have thought about population limits from the get-go they MIGHT have prevented this problem - but honestly, they even stated they didn't expect it to pick up in popularity this fast, in face the "new servers coming" in the "Big Maintenance" were planned for later release when the game was "expected to become popular and need them"

The real thing that angers many is how they are "working on things"


Can't find the original now and too lazy, so just copy/pasting instead of quoting, but they stated this on "AFK kicking"

""Resolving AFK Character Issues

From several users on some of our more congested Worlds, we have received requests for a feature which automatically logs out characters who are AFK for an extended period of time. We are actively looking into the implementation of such a feature, but have decided to first concentrate our efforts on increasing the number of Worlds and optimizing the Duty Finder servers.""


I'd like you to look at that last part again:
but have decided to first concentrate our efforts on increasing the number of Worlds and optimizing the Duty Finder servers.

This means instead of dealing with the maybe 1K players AFK on every server, they are instead trying to focus on New Servers and... sadly some BS IN game feature that most of us have never used, or only barely used.

But... in the reality of it, kicking 1K players means only 1K other players will join in nearly instantly with the Over-Congestion problem, and until they "AFK" long enough, they won't get kicked... etc.

The main problem is still "too many characters on one server" and AFK kicking does NOT resolve that.


Players... need to do the following:


1- Log out when not playing.
2- Consider Re-Rolling if they haven't been able to get on a server
3- Transfer to a new World (if a service ever becomes available)
4- Take time to plan out your friends joining

2 and 3 both help both the new servers become populated, and the old servers relieve congestion, and are the BEST steps, especially if a "Free Transfer" becomes available.


The server side of things, though, needs to change slightly. If the 'new servers' don't have any character limits (or aren't carefully watched while they fill up when released) they will become congested as well, never resolving the issue.


It doesn't matter if they add another 5,000 slots for players to play , most of the servers would still be FULL and 1017 to many, what matters is getting the congestion off the server all together.

Adding too many slots to a server will only bog it down, especially if no AFK program is implemented, so let's avoid that all together by being more intelligent about how to resolve this.


I, am re-rolling then deleting my main. I'd delete it now, but then I'd be locked out of the forums,and I need something to pass the time.

How about you? Are you "Man enough" to re-roll?

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lol its both parties falt SE for lack of support and players for loggin in and not playing

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Originally Posted by AlienWacKo

The above is still SE's fault and the result of poor planning, the above is easily taken care of in 99% of other mmo's that has a built in auto kick AFK feature. Yes i know you can script around that via macros/bots but the majority of players would have no clue how to do so. the Auto AFK kick while in of itself would not resolve the issues but would allow for more players getting there chance to play!

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Again, I explicitly stated this in my initial reply and said almost exactly what you are saying.

From my original reply.
"The problem stems from SE not being prepared and having enough servers and not having systems to regulate the server populations (AFK Kicker, Server Population Display, etc.)."

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Originally Posted by AlienWacKo

so POOR planning by SE equals the players fault?

makes sense i guess

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LOL yeah the idea that they have no clue about how many electronic sales they've made.

Alright so I tried to go back and read the post, but my eyes glazed over about halfway through from all of the apologism and excuse-making and haughty undeserved moral superiority, so I'm just going to pretend that the post stopped at:

The 1017 comes from 1 overlooked thing, and only 1.
Square Enix didn't think.

Nailed it.

@Kuan-_-Ti_

That was the point.



To all others who seemed to have fail the INT check let me spell it out for you:

The Threads name was designed to pull you in, it's a troll name. The actual content actually targets both sides, SE for failure to anticipate a successful launch of a popular game (I guess they expected it to bomb like the original) and player fault for being self-centered.


Those that think I am upset, I am sorry you aren't worth stressing out over.

To the one targeting me trying to insult me, I haven't been a "virgin" as you put it in over 15 years, and I am probably old enough to be your mother :P

Just because you live in the basement of your parents house, doesn't mean everyone does.

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Originally Posted by zombifiers

Alright so I tried to go back and read the post, but my eyes glazed over about halfway through from all of the apologism and excuse-making and haughty undeserved moral superiority, so I'm just going to pretend that the post stopped at:

The 1017 comes from 1 overlooked thing, and only 1.
Square Enix didn't think.

Nailed it.

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Glad someone paid attention to my careful wording ^.^

I have 3 hidden messages in the post just by omitting some "useless information" and "repeated text"

you found 1.

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Originally Posted by Kissker

Glad someone paid attention to my careful wording ^.^

I have 3 hidden messages in the post just by omitting some "useless information" and "repeated text"

you found 1.

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Oh man don't tell me that, I'm just neurotic enough to actually go looking.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kuan-_-Ti_

lol its both parties falt SE for lack of support and players for loggin in and not playing

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The lack of capacity is what worsened the AFK problem. So the root cause still goes back to SE, not the players.

I'm probably one of SE's biggest supporters (without being a "white knight"), but even "white knights" have to admit that Fernehalwed blogged "We're gonna need a lot more servers" back when world count was 45 and Yoshi-P broke the news that beta applications had reached 1M in June. Our current setup would be straining under the number of beta applicants announced back in late April (580,000).

I still think the decision to add capacity today was the right choice, rather than to suffer under worsening 1017s for a week or two more, with new game sales stopped, waiting for a rushed AFK system to be put into place. (Besides, I want the AFK kicker to involve combat and death (in-game, of course). *whistles angelically*)

Lulz, there might actually be more - I over typed and if you really look hard, you might find a ton of little things in there, like rearranging words or using every 3erd word or other crazy stuff. I only intentionally put in 3 though. Lol.

The biggest, major, most important one though - you already found.

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Originally Posted by Kissker

Lulz, there might actually be more - I over typed and if you really look hard, you might find a ton of little things in there, like rearranging words or using every 3erd word or other crazy stuff. I only intentionally put in 3 though. Lol.

The biggest, major, most important one though - you already found.

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http://www.zwolanerd.com/blog/wp-con.../leosquint.png

You win this round OP. I am actually going to do this at work later tonight.

Damn it all.

Kissker,
I read your thread and got what you were saying and all, and if you see my reply we are pretty much in agreement.

However, the intentional "trolling" title is going to lead to people reading the title and nothing else and coming into the thread and posting knee-jerk reactions.
Sometimes when wanting people to approach something, like this thread, in a certain way, it's initial presentation (i.e. the title) should reflect that.

I feel that many of the points you make are valid and it would be a shame for people not to get what you are saying because all they register is the title.

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Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

Kissker,
I read your thread and got what you were saying and all, and if you see my reply we are pretty much in agreement.

However, the intentional "trolling" title is going to lead to people reading the title and nothing else and coming into the thread and posting knee-jerk reactions.
Sometimes when wanting people to approach something, like this thread, in a certain way, it's initial presentation (i.e. the title) should reflect that.

I feel that many of the points you make are valid and it would be a shame for people not to get what you are saying because all they register is the title.

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Everyone is entitled to their own stupidity and ignorance, those that strive to become better learn from it - and tend to read deeper into a thread then just the title.
(that's a compliment to all of you who actually read the body and had something intelligent to say)

The title draws attention, as it's designed to. What people do , is what they do. It wouldn't matter if it was better titled or not - in fact the "best titles" usually get ignored unless stickied. Just sad, but it's how forums work.

First of all, loved the thread, Well done.

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Originally Posted by ArkhamNative

I'm probably one of SE's biggest supporters (without being a "white knight"), but even "white knights" have to admit that Fernehalwed blogged "We're gonna need a lot more servers" back when world count was 45 and Yoshi-P broke the news that beta applications had reached 1M in June. Our current setup would be straining under the number of beta applicants announced back in late April (580,000).

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What some people assume, is that the dev team has the ability to draw from Square's resources by themselves. Just from reading this poster's comments; it would appear that Yoshi was aware. It's much more likely that the person, or persons, in charge of finances did not want to put up the considerable money it would take to upgrade the systems. On what they saw at that time, as a gamble. I'm not making excuses for Square, just illuminating a possible reason.

People can still be upset, even upset with Square, but I don't believe that the Dev team would have made these decisions by themselves.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kissker

This means instead of dealing with the maybe 1K players AFK on every server, they are instead trying to focus on New Servers and... sadly some BS IN game feature that most of us have never used, or only barely used.

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I love how you say the Duty Finder is BS and something you never used when I know you used it for atleast 3 or 4 solo quest and 2 or 3 group dungeons. At level 19 so don't try to say its not needed because if it wasn't for it you wouldn't be able to do most of your story or class quests.

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Originally Posted by wolfrikku

I love how you say the Duty Finder is BS and something you never used when I know you used it for atleast 3 or 4 solo quest and 2 or 3 group dungeons. At level 19 so don't try to say its not needed because if it wasn't for it you wouldn't be able to do most of your story or class quests.

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actually I've used it 2x to be honest,(group dungeons only) and didn't really have any issues with it at all. The rest of my levels are simply ... questing and hunter log. Also secondary class was being worked on, so I could jump to Paladin.

but no, didn't really use it at all, and haven't been able to log in, in 4 days or so... so.. won't use it on this toon again.. ever. (re-rolling onto new server)

Plenty of things to do besides "sit and wait"

You people need to stop "White Knighting" SE they messed up and thats just the facts. I love Final Fantasy but SE is know for not planning things out.

!. Not having a real Que System that every other game has.

2. Not having a AFK kicking system that every other game has.

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Originally Posted by Kissker

actually I've used it 2x to be honest,(group dungeons only) and didn't really have any issues with it at all. The rest of my levels are simply ... questing and hunter log. Also secondary class was being worked on, so I could jump to Paladin.

but no, didn't really use it at all, and haven't been able to log in, in 4 days or so... so.. won't use it on this toon again.. ever. (re-rolling onto new server)

Plenty of things to do besides "sit and wait"

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So you mean to tell me you didn't do any of the solo quest for story or class? Because those go thought the dutyfinder to get you the solo instance. Which I know you had to atleast do the story otherwise you would have never made it into the dutyfinder for the instances.

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Originally Posted by Kissker

actually I've used it 2x to be honest,(group dungeons only) and didn't really have any issues with it at all. The rest of my levels are simply ... questing and hunter log. Also secondary class was being worked on, so I could jump to Paladin.

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The "Duty Finder" is the term for the bridge between the open world and any instancing you do. This applies to group or solo content. You are thinking of it as just some LFG tool, but this is incorrect.

When you hit level 10 and your class quest throws you into a private instance, the duty finder is what put you there. When you hit level 10 in the story quest I believe it is the same way. Hell, when you start the game and are in your own private world for the first 10 minutes of gameplay, it is because the duty finder put you there.

When there were problems with the duty finder server, character progression was literally halted. You could grind levels, but you couldn't progress your story. This also meant that many quest hubs would be empty for you as their quests are typically activated once you complete or unlock a corresponding story section. For example, you will not have quests in Camp Dragonhead until you do the story quest that sends you to Camp Dragonhead. This problem was just made worse around lvl15 because not only did you have to be able to connect to the duty finder yourself which was near impossible, but you needed 4 others to be matched with you who also had no problems. If you could not accomplish this by sheer luck, you would have no quests to do even if you did grind past the hiccup.

You used the duty finder a lot without knowing it.