Why so adamant on keeping the Market Place?

I don't understand why SE is so adamant on keeping the Market Place when clearly the majority of people want it gone. I would like an answer to this question, I want to know what plans they have for it other than charging for extra retainers, maybe if they can tell us that it'll drop the whole AH vs. MP debate and we can move on but I think the only reason they're sticking with it is so they can charge extra for extra retainers in the near future.

Why so adamant about getting rid of it?

on the same note some people like it more then other options

The AH and MW systems are basically one in the same now, the MW system is only lacking 2 aspects that a general AH system has, bidding and buying from search and a delivery system.

Because it works. At launch it was pretty awful but now that it works as intended there's no need for an AH. Let the game differentiate itself from XI in just one more way.

There's no need to get rid of it to be honest, anyone that says an AH is "far superior" is just being delusional as AHs are as follows:
Walk to an NPC or Building (Wards and Retainers)
Search the item you want through categories or search by item ID (Search and Ward locations)
Bid or buy (what's currently missing)
Price history (Double edged sword.)
Money is stored on the server or sent to you (Money is given to your retainer.)

Both systems are basically one in the same at this point.

What's wrong with having choices? I like the AH system but I like the Market Place too, having both would be pretty sweet. One would end up being more needs specific I imagine.

Before the item search was implemented and refined, I also wanted an AH. Ever since the item search was implemented and refined, however, I do not.

This is because it is extremely functional and performs everything you need in terms of buying/selling/repairing.
The only thing that needs to be done now (IMO) is fixing the constant crashes of the wards which seem to happen on a day to day basis on my server (Lindblum).

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

... and a delivery system.

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The retainers act as a delivery box for you as they carry your gil when they have sold something and carry items which they have obtained when a player has sold something to them. It would be nice though to see this delivery system include ordinary deliveries from other players without actually having to trade anything.
This would then make the retainer a fully functional delivery system.

I remember in FF11 they had the AH too. I never saw anybody using bazaars when the AH was there. Do you guys remember how the AH killed all use of bazaars on every server? Man, nobody saw that one coming, did they? So why would SE even think of keeping these market wards around for easier searching of bazaars when clearly nobody will ever use them once they finally release the AHs?

(In case you didn't notice, this post was steeped in sarcasm)

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Originally Posted by Mack

I don't understand why SE is so adamant on keeping the Market Place when clearly the majority of people want it gone. I would like an answer to this question, I want to know what plans they have for it other than charging for extra retainers, maybe if they can tell us that it'll drop the whole AH vs. MP debate and we can move on but I think the only reason they're sticking with it is so they can charge extra for extra retainers in the near future.

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First of all, game development isn't a democratic process. "the majority of people" don't necessarily know what's good for the game, even when that majority actually exists (which is debatable in this case).

Secondly, the market wards work very well now. There's no reason, to get rid of a system and include a completely new one if the first system works well, especially in a game that needs a LOT of work in other areas.

1. The system as it is currently prevents harassment for players when they put items up for sale.
2. It doesn't have an arbitrary "Wait 7 days" mechanic to buy the item or fight over the item.
3. Blind Auctions are a waste of time, Why stand around bid fighting with a blank door to be told "bid refused for an hour because someone put up the blind auction well over what the history suggests for that item.
4. History. It was abused constantly by RMT's. They'd buy up all the items for a certain item they could then resell them to themselves over and over until they got the history to look like the item was worth more or less then normal, then profit off it.
5. The Search Feature Works.
6. Marketwards actually take less time to use now then an AH did in XI in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

The AH and MW systems are basically one in the same now, the MW system is only lacking 2 aspects that a general AH system has, bidding and buying from search and a delivery system.

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In this case you're still saying the AH is more convenient. For me, it has nothing to do with convenience or that I hate the MW so much I wanna see it gone, and it has more to do with why? They're basically overhauling the game so why not the MW, its not like an AH is gonna take the longest to setup and you all know that people will always complain about no AH - there's new topics everywhere popping up on this subject, "Is there an AH yet?" for some people it matters, so since the MW is "exactly" like an AH but less convenient, why not make it an AH? I just wanna know why they're holding on so dearly.

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Originally Posted by Mack

They're basically overhauling the game so why not the MW

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Because "overhauling the game" takes a lot of resources, and it's silly to use even more resources to create a whole new system in place of one that works well just because some people are so morbidly attached to a system present in other games that they cannot even fathom the viability of an altrnative?

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Originally Posted by Cendres

What's wrong with having choices? I like the AH system but I like the Market Place too, having both would be pretty sweet. One would end up being more needs specific I imagine.

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I don't think they can live together in harmony. I'm afraid that if both existed, one would eventually squeeze the other to death. The way the wards are now, as others have said, it's almost exactly what an AH would be, so there is little need to have them both. For these reasons, I believe that one or the other is the way to go.

then why want to replace MW with AH when MW is doing fine and all? maybe can make a central MW? or linked MW? O_O that would be pretty awesome lol

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

1. The system as it is currently prevents harassment for players when they put items up for sale.

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Because it hides their names? Its not like its hard coded into every AH that the player's name must show up, not a good enough excuse.

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2. It doesn't have an arbitrary "Wait 7 days" mechanic to buy the item or fight over the item.

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What?? explain, I don't remember having to wait 7 days for anything.

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3. Blind Auctions are a waste of time, Why stand around bid fighting with a blank door to be told "bid refused for an hour because someone put up the blind auction well over what the history suggests for that item.

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But running from retainer to retainer to another ward to retainer to another ward is time well spent?

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4. History. It was abused constantly by RMT's. They'd buy up all the items for a certain item they could then resell them to themselves over and over until they got the history to look like the item was worth more or less then normal, then profit off it.

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This I can see as legitimate but FFXIV has done many things to stop RMTs and have forgotten the playerbase. Look at Gathering for instance, its done the way it is to prevent botting, they also put a limit on it (i.e., can't gather any items after your pool has run out)...but what about the players who really enjoy fishing for instance? its stupid "preventing RMT" by punishing the playerbase. All I'm saying is there must be a better way than this.

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5. The Search Feature Works.

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It works but it will always be less convenient and you will always be walking into a zombie fest....nothing cool about and from our perspective nothing better about it than AH.

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6. Marketwards actually take less time to use now then an AH did in XI in my opinion.

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How so?

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Originally Posted by Mack

But running from retainer to retainer to another ward to retainer to another ward is time well spent?

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You mean running to THE retainer that has the item you want because you took the time to make note of the name and ward the retainer is in. Looking for a big pink star isn't hard.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Because "overhauling the game" takes a lot of resources, and it's silly to use even more resources to create a whole new system in place of one that works well just because some people are so morbidly attached to a system present in other games that they cannot even fathom the viability of an altrnative?

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How is it any different than what they're doing now? the reason I started this topic is because they're constantly working on improving the MW, meaning they already have resources associated with it - it doesn't take a 100 people to code an AH.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

You mean running to THE retainer that has the item you want because you took the time to make note of the name and ward the retainer is in. Looking for a big pink star isn't hard.

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Right, and when I want another item I have to run to the door, search for it, warp, run to another retainer. Do you want me to fill all the in betweens for you? why are you getting so upset here, I'm asking a simple question that SE still hasn't answered and its because the answer is "we want more money from you".

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Originally Posted by Mack

How is it any different than what they're doing now? the reason I started this topic is because they're constantly working on improving the MW, meaning they already have resources associated with it - it doesn't take a 100 people to code an AH.

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First of all, you don't know what kind of resources are needed to code and test an AH. Secondly, it's normally much easier,less resources-intensive, not to mention smarter to improve over pre-existing systems that work well, instead of scrapping them and just creating new ones from scratch.

It's an elementary notion, really.

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Originally Posted by Mack

Right, and when I want another item I have to run to the door, search for it, warp, run to another retainer. Do you want me to fill all the in betweens for you? why are you getting so upset here, I'm asking a simple question that SE still hasn't answered and its because the answer is "we want more money from you".

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With the item search feature in place now I can buy an entire set of gear for any class in less than 10 minutes. I don't see a problem with the system as it is now. Sure it may not take tons of resources to develop but the fact of the matter is that team could be working on something else instead of replacing a fully functional system.

I kinda like the retainer system. I wouldn't be against an AH for Ishgard though.

They will most likely implement an AH, but they need to fix the other main aspects of the game first and also introduce a mailing system before they even think of giving us an AH. Unless you buy an item and it goes straight to your inventory.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Because it works. At launch it was pretty awful but now that it works as intended there's no need for an AH. Let the game differentiate itself from XI in just one more way.

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This isn't to be "different", if it wants to be different it has to be better and FFXIV obviously hasn't been considering the lash back it got - I'm sure you witnessed what everyone else has seen happen to the game too. I don't mind the game being different but if its to prevent RMT at the cost of the players' fun then no thanks, and considering that the player base in this game now is about 25% RMT I'd say they haven't done a good job nor would they ever be able to get rid of them because they will always find a way. You want to prevent them, ban people for buying gil, do not put artificial road blocks in front of everything because all that does is harms the players.

There is only 1 disadvantage to the current system

and that is that wards can only hold so many retainers so eventualy they will all fill which can get annoying, but thats a bridge to cross when we get there

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Originally Posted by Arcell

With the item search feature in place now I can buy an entire set of gear for any class in less than 10 minutes. I don't see a problem with the system as it is now. Sure it may not take tons of resources to develop but the fact of the matter is that team could be working on something else instead of replacing a fully functional system.

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But again I'll say, "that team" isn't working on something else, they have a portion of the team working on improving the wards meaning they already allocated resources to it which tells me they don't plan on putting in an AH, my question is: why not?

I just want to be clear, I don't care if they put on in or not, but I just want to know why not, and if the reason is RMT then its a stupid one.

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Originally Posted by Mack

considering that the player base in this game now is about 25% RMT I'd say they haven't done a good job nor would they ever be able to get rid of them because they will always find a way.

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I'd really love to see your source on those numbers. No seriously, I'd actually really like to see that data.

"works well" is an exaggeration.

It definitely works well compared to nothing at all, that much is true. If the only choice is between this and nothing, I obviously choose the wards. But it does not work well compared to a global AH with a price history. Compared to that, it's merely a passable under-fill.

Also the RMT witch hunt isn't better or worse off with this setup. I should think they're vested interest in earning a living will allow them to manage either way.

I also don't see how they would solve a fluctuation in numbers given that the PS3 release will bring with it a pretty significant increase in players. I dunno, it just doesn't make sense to me. Plus, with an AH, your items are automatically placed in the right category with no penalty "for placing your retainer in the wrong wards" which is through no fault of your own really when you have so much crap to sell. The AH clearly still has an advantage, and until SE tells us why they are sticking to retainers, the AH will always have an advantage because this is as good as MW get. And the reason isn't because they wanna stop RMT and its not because they wanna be different.

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Originally Posted by Mack

Right, and when I want another item I have to run to the door, search for it, warp, run to another retainer. Do you want me to fill all the in betweens for you? why are you getting so upset here, I'm asking a simple question that SE still hasn't answered and its because the answer is "we want more money from you".

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You do know with an AH I have to collapse and expand categories when I'm browsing if I didn't know the search ID, right? If I'm in armor category, I have to switch to the weapons category and expand if it's well organized, which is no different than running a few seconds to the door and researching and remarking retainers.

People overglorify any of the AH systems MMOs use.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

You do know with an AH I have to collapse and expand categories when I'm browsing if I didn't know the search ID, right? If I'm in armor category, I have to switch to the weapons category and expand if it's well organized, which is no different than running a few seconds to the door and researching and remarking retainers.

People overglorify any of the AH systems MMOs use.

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And you don't have to collapse and expand bazaars? come up with something better.

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Originally Posted by Mack

And you don't have to collapse and expand bazaars? come up with something better.

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Your entire point was the current setup isn't better than what AHs offer, therefore it is you that have to come up with something better when comparing the systems, because all you're comparing is what both system actually employ.

Where is the poll that says the majority wants an AH?

I'm not denying there is a lot of people who want it, but I haven't seen an actual count. The only mention it had that I know of was in Player Poll the 1st, where it came in second for what people would like to see implimented first, after more story/quests. But that was before the search function was implimented.

I hope SE doesn't read this and think AH is a big concern. The MW work fine right now, there are a million things they need to fix first, XI did not have an AH its first year lol, and people sold stuff on bazaars, but that was like the first MW we had. They can fix so much more crap before even considering an AH

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Originally Posted by Chezen

Where is the poll that says the majority wants an AH?

I'm not denying there is a lot of people who want it, but I haven't seen an actual count. The only mention it had that I know of was in Player Poll the 1st, where it came in second for what people would like to see implimented first, after more story/quests. But that was before the search function was implimented.

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The first poll, AH was literally on the lowest point, people rather have seen the game redone than have an AH.

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Originally Posted by Chezen

Where is the poll that says the majority wants an AH?

I'm not denying there is a lot of people who want it, but I haven't seen an actual count. The only mention it had that I know of was in Player Poll the 1st, where it came in second for what people would like to see implimented first, after more story/quests. But that was before the search function was implimented.

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That's the one. Second place only because the game needed and still needs more content.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Your entire point was the current setup isn't better than what AHs offer, therefore it is you that have to come up with something better when comparing the systems, because all you're comparing is what both system actually employ.

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So you agree that your reason was crap? I have come up with something better, in fact my entire argument is pretty solid, go ahead and read it its spread out in the entire topic now. Again, SE hasn't told us why they're sticking to retainers and people are trying their hardest to justify them. AH's may not be better by a lot from the MW, I agree, but they're still better nonetheless so unless retainers have some otherworldly use to them I would still like an answer from SE.

I know I'm in for a lashing here, but can I turn around the original topic for a second?

Why so adamant on replacing the Market Wards with an Auction House? Is it that much of a hassle? Is an AH so much better? Like it or not, they're on pretty equal footing. They both have advantages over the other. Some people will always prefer one over the other. What's the point in this continued argument?

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Originally Posted by Mack

So you agree that your reason was crap? I have come up with something better, in fact my entire argument is pretty solid,

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Considering that your entire argument is based on a "majority" for which you have no numbers (and very possibly doesn't exists) and on the fact that you personally like an AH more than Market Wards, i see no solidity there.

This without mentioning that while there's absolutely no function of an AH that cannot be implemented in the market wards, there are several areas of the market wards that cannot be implemented in a classic AH system (visual shopping and impulse purchases are two prominent ones).

The fact that an AH works well on SOME other games (not all games have one, and there are several alternatives that work very well in other games), doesn't make it the only viable system. It's that simple.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Because "overhauling the game" takes a lot of resources, and it's silly to use even more resources to create a whole new system in place of one that works well just because some people are so morbidly attached to a system present in other games that they cannot even fathom the viability of an altrnative?

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Bolded is what I feel is the real issue with a large portion of the people clamoring for an AH.

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Originally Posted by Mack

So you agree that your reason was crap?

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So in other words, you have no true reasoning for wanting the MW gone. You didn't come up with something better as your line of logic was that the AH cuts out the need to travel between retainers, which is what you get when you "read between the lines", yet with an AH you have to travel between categories to find what you want unless you know the specific search ID that you better hope and pray the database ID is the same as the in-game ID they want you to use for searching.

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Originally Posted by BlaiseLallaise

I know I'm in for a lashing here, but can I turn around the original topic for a second?

Why so adamant on replacing the Market Wards with an Auction House? Is it that much of a hassle? Is an AH so much better? Like it or not, they're on pretty equal footing. They both have advantages over the other. Some people will always prefer one over the other. What's the point in this continued argument?

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No lashing, I would hope we can all have a normal conversation. To answer your question, I'll say it again, I'm not here trying to get an AH implemented, I want to know why they're so adamant to sticking to MW. There are no benefits for a MW over an AH, atleast not anything that can't itself be coded into an AH (and the convenience of not having to run all over the place with the AH gives it the edge) unless I'm missing something here?