Why be a Bard over an Archer?

Bards have slightly increased stats over archers (not sure at 50, but at 41 its 11 dex), but lose access to a multitude of useful cross-class skills and a reduced number of them.

Archer/Bard XCS
Feint (LNC) 20% slow
Keen Flurry (LNC) 40% parry
Invigorate (LNC) Restore 400 TP
Blood For Blood (LNC) 20% DMG increase
Featherfoot (PGL) 25% evasion
Second Wind (PGL) Self Heal
Haymaker (PGL) 170 potency after evade 20% slow
Internal Release (PGL) 20% CRIT increase
Mantra (PGL) Increases healing received by 5% for self and party

Archer XCS
Cure (CNJ) 400 Potency heal
Stoneskin (CNJ) 10% max HP bubble
Protect (CNJ) Phy defence increase party wide
Raise (CNJ) Res
Foresight (MRD) 20% defense
Skull Sunder (MRD) Increased enmity for kite tanking
Fracture (MRD) DoT
Bloodbath (MRD) 25% dmg done is healed
Mercy Stroke (MRD) 200 potency below 20% hp nuke
Physick (ACN) 400 potency heal
Virus (ACN) Reduce target STR + DEX 15%
Eye for an Eye (ACN) 20% chance to reduce dmg 10%
Surecast (THM) No interrupt next cast
Swiftcast (THM) Instant next cast
Savage Blade (GLD) Increased enmity for kite tanking
Flash (GLD) Increased enmity for kite tanking
Convalescence (GLD) 20% increased healing received
Provoke (GLD) Increased enmity for kite tanking
Awareness (GLD) Can't be crit

From my experiences the extra DPS you gain from Marauders DoT and nuke, and the utility of being able to either tank, help heal, and party wide defensive cool downs outweighs the extremely situational abilities from Bard.

There is also the possibility of building an ARC as a ranged tank. Archer gets access to quite a few defensive CDs as well as multiple enmity skills.



PS: This 1000 character limit on posts is retarded.

Archer can't wear AF or AF2. Huge decrease in stats. Archer also can't use the relic weapon.
The MP regeneration song is very important endgame.
Bard doesn't lose any cross skill that's important for group play.

Cure: Useless for Archer's with their terrible mind stat.
Stoneskin: Useless for Archer's with their low HP.
Protect: Useless in dungeons because your protect doesn't add magic defense.
Raise: Useless in dungeons because your raise can't be used mid battle.
Foresight: dps shouldn't be getting hit period.
Skull Sunder: Why would dps want increased enmity?
Fracture: Kind of a waste of time. That dot doesn't have any synergy with your traits.
Bloodbath: This could be useful but second wind is good enough for emergency healing
Mercy Stroke: Misery's End is better because of the fast reuse time
Physick: Terrible mind etc.
Virus: Sort of useful but you should focusing on dealing damage not debuffing the enemy.
Eye for an Eye: Shouldn't be taking damage period.
Surecast: Useless.
Swiftcast: Useless.
Savage Blade: If you kite in dungeons when the tank is still alive, you're a bad player.
Flash: See above.
Convalescence: This would be useful.
Provoke: See above.
Awareness: Don't get hit and enemies can't critical you.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

Savage Blade: If you kite in dungeons when the tank is still alive, you're a bad player.

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I agree with everything but this, sometimes, tank is baddy and have no choice... our ability to move while still making use of all our abilities makes this doable/handy at times, with the exception for ranged mobs

Giving up a permanent stat boost for a group of small and inferior utility skills seems like a bad move.

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Originally Posted by Impendus

I agree with everything but this, sometimes, tank is baddy and have no choice... our ability to move while still making use of all our abilities makes this doable/handy at times, with the exception for ranged mobs

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Depending how bad the tank is, the healer may have an easier time just healing you through the damage, anyway. I mean, you do have access to some defensive cool downs. . .

At least when soloing, I've found no reason to be on my Bard as opposed to my Archer. I am level 38 right now and Foe Requiem seems to be pretty much useless even in dungeons... The MP song is the only reason to queue on my Bard, but I have accidentally queued as Archer before (because I forget to change class) and ended up saving the day by having that damn lowbie conjurer heal. lol

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Originally Posted by Merix

From my experiences the extra DPS you gain from Marauders DoT and nuke, and the utility of being able to either tank, help heal, and party wide defensive cool downs outweighs the extremely situational abilities from Bard.

There is also the possibility of building an ARC as a ranged tank. Archer gets access to quite a few defensive CDs as well as multiple enmity skills.



PS: This 1000 character limit on posts is retarded.

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you are so laughable wrong its not even funny

Why?

Why you ask?

FOR THE FANCY DRESS OF COURSE! D:

And even for the simple fact that an archer in endgame must be a bard to do his job properly. <3

Just no. I really hope nobody reads this and gets ideas. There are enough gimp archers/bards out there.

I think now with the Lancer sub and Pugilist sub, the Bard has more damage potential than it did before with the Conjurer sub.

Rain of Death has been the big one for me. It reduces the enemy's damage by 10%. You're helping the tank take less damage, indirectly helping the healer conserve MP and take less enmity, delaying the time you will need to put on the Mage's Ballad, which in turn, allows you to maintain 100% damage instead of 80%, making the battle end just a little quicker. And the battle ending quicker conserves everyone's TP and MP just a little. Even more TP conserved if Quick Nock procs.

I've actually been hearing from my Free Company members that every so often they'll pick up a pug that's playing archer over bard. This really is a thing. I sure as heck don't get it.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

Archer can't wear AF or AF2. Huge decrease in stats. Archer also can't use the relic weapon.
The MP regeneration song is very important endgame.
Bard doesn't lose any cross skill that's important for group play.

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What level are relic/af/af2?

If they're 50 only, I'd say 30-49 as archer is the way to go...

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Originally Posted by mjk

What level are relic/af/af2?

If they're 50 only, I'd say 30-49 as archer is the way to go...

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for levelling sure. when i level i stay in arcanist so i get a 5th dot and protect from cnj while still having access to a tanking pet combined with chocobo dps companion.

in a dungeon you are being a selfish prick if you aren't bard, especially if you are the only archer. too many fights where toggling mana song can be make-or-break for all but the most organized pre-maded groups. the only thing you are giving up is a cross class heal - which shouldnt matter given the base mind stat of archer and your tiny mana pool - and a damaging limit break. you don't need a damaging limit break. monks/lancers/thm/summoner have them and you can only fire off one every couple of minutes.

Why teh person a couple posts above says lancer? isnt the secondary class pugilist?

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Originally Posted by Happybandido

Why teh person a couple posts above says lancer? isnt the secondary class pugilist?

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yes but bards have access to pug and lacer skills only (ofc not including archer)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mjk

What level are relic/af/af2?

If they're 50 only, I'd say 30-49 as archer is the way to go...

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Normal AF is better than any non endgame archer clothing and you can get 4 pieces of that at 45. There's no reason not to be a Bard at 45+

im still wondering if i go bard or just pure archer... as far i understand bard is for group play and arch is for solo play. i may be wrong. but heck ill try to go full archer..

still dont know what to do how to be bard or what so ever.

Bard is the new Red Mage people will want you endgame for refresh refresh refresh!

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Originally Posted by Ironfistmonkey

Bard is the new Red Mage people will want you endgame for refresh refresh refresh!

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"I need a bard here!"
"Coming!"
"Bard, mana!"
"Right on my way!"
"Bard LB3 Please"
"Omgomgomg!"

Always on the run, always on the spot, the fanciest job on FFXIV: The Bard, only for you <3


*Campaign for the safeguards of shiny Bards*

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Originally Posted by Ironfistmonkey

Bard is the new Red Mage people will want you endgame for refresh refresh refresh!

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You mean bard is going to be the new bard.

1-45 = Archer
45-50 = Bard

Sure, some of the utility skills from cross class can be useful whilst levelling as an Archer, but at the end of the day, Bard is significantly better once you get AF armor and the AOE skills.

Let's clarify a bit.

Solo 1-44 --> Archer - You'll get barely any use out of bard songs solo, and the difference in base stats is fairly low. You'll get far more use out of additional xCS.

Solo 45+ --> Bard - once you get AF gear, the stat difference will out-weigh the xCS you give up.

Light Party 1-29 --> Archer - Even if you're above 30, if you do a dungeon that level caps you below 30 then there is absolutely no advantage to Bard as you won't be able to sing.

Light Party 30-39 --> Situational. In quite a few mid level dungeons, MP still doesn't really become an issue. Use your judgement. If you have a Paladin tank and two mages, you're probably going to be more use to them as bard. If you've got a Warrior tank and another physical dps and a White Mage, then it's doubtful that you'll need Mage's Ballad and Foe Requiem won't do much either.

Light Party 40+ --> Pretty much Bard is going to be better for any situation.