Can the Dev explain the diffetences between Craftmanship & Magic Cft.?

I hope in later dev talks, developers can explain more in detail about craftmanship & magic craftmanship thus we could choose proper armors to wear /proper food to eat when making specific items.

If anyone of you has made some research, will you be willing to share your findings here?

I want to know the following info:

1. Usually what kind of items/parts need craftmanship more? and which need magic. cft more?

2. Is there a job preference of craftmanship or magic cft? Or the preference is only related to the item you are making?

3. Is it better to balance your craftmanship and magic cft attributes (ie to make both as high as possible) than making one of them especialy higher than the other when making most of the items?

4. When trying to bold items, is one of the attribution more important? Or it still depends on what you are making?

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Is it better to balance your craftmanship and magic cft attributes (ie to make both as high as possible) than making one of them especialy higher than the other when making most of the items?

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More in detail I would like to know:

Does a recipe use both craftmanship and magic craftmanship or only one of them.

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When trying to bold items, is one of the attribution more important? Or it still depends on what you are making?

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And where does control fit into this. It's possible to get control or craftmanship pieces at R50 but I have no idea which one to pick for what purpose.



Offtopic: Does Phantom Knights ring any bells for you Kel? Asking because of your name and people I used to know.

Go to Loadstone and chech ask the DEV's. They explained it their.

Not thoroughly enough.

Ya thats what i thought when i read it also. Thats all the info we have on it. Having the dev's give good info instead of vaig info would be nice. Not sure what Dev tag needs to be in the title but try one and see if they answer back.

With all the changes their making to the game the info may not br correct. So they might be holding off till the changes.

I agree, KUDOS!

If you guys want this information you need to make 2 things happen. Hit the "LIKE" button on the main posters page and also right a comment giving Kudos to the post.

I think is better to test them your self, that one part of the game. To be able to achieve something on your own discovery make it feels awesome.

Importance for all Classes (Grinding)

1) Control
2) Craftsmanship
3) Magic Craftsmanship

Without Control, you may progress quicker, but you are more often going to go unstable and then lose 30+ durability quickly if your Control is too low. Craftsmanship is what helps the progress move along quicker, too low of craftsmanship causes you not to get as many "Success 20%" but more "Success 11-13%". Magic Craftsmanship is for HQing products, the higher your Magic Craftsmanship the more "Quality" you gain per success. But remember, without Control & Craftsmanship, Magic Craftsmanship is a waste. Because unstables will quickly halve your quality on a Chaotic Explosion.

I don't think certain recipes are any easier with higher magic craftsmanship vs craftsmanship. I have done a lot of crafting and almost every crafting class is Rank 40 or above. I hope this information helps.

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Magic Craftsmanship is for HQing products, the higher your Magic Craftsmanship the more "Quality" you gain per success.

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HQing items is magical? It just would be nice if the developers gave some crystal clear answers. Facts, not statements about what someone "thinks" it might do.


Also recipes have a minium requirement of craftmanship and/or magic craftsmanship and/or control. Those are things that shouldn't be hidden, but should be listed in the recipe (for example in the windowthat tell you how many shards you need).

Hmm... I highly doubt about that:

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Q. What do the crafter-related attributes Craftsmanship, Magic Craftsmanhip, and Control each do?
A. Among recipes in the game, there are those for which the rate of progress and chance of success are increased by higher Craftsmanship, and those for which they are determined by Magic Craftsmanship. Control helps to reduce the occurrence of aetherial sparking (see below), and exerts its influence over both types of recipes just mentioned.
All recipes, however, have set attribute requirements. Attempting a recipe with attributes below those required will result in lessened progress and quality, even for successful actions.

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I guess it's kind of discoverable. You just have to try out recipes and guess. Is that magical? Do I use any sort of magic to craft this one? (See for example Paralyzing Dagger, Shards/Crystals/Clusters,...)
At least this is what I do and always worked.

See ya!

Ha, I never heard of Phantom Knights. ^^

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Originally Posted by KumaAkuma

Those are things that shouldn't be hidden, but should be listed in the recipe (for example in the windowthat tell you how many shards you need).

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I agree with this. It's better to list the requirements (not matter in format of exact figures, prefenrece or others) in recipe instead of just letting us guess.

It depends on the item and which tool you want to use.

The main hand tool relates to craftsmanship, while the off hand tool relates to magic craftsmanship, this is what the devs are talking about.

If you look at you tool stats you will see the main hand tool has a higher craftsmanship and the off hand tool will have higher magic craftsmanship. In regards to that each item has an "affinity" with being crafted by either the main hand tool or the off hand tool. If an item has "affinity" with the main hand tool then the main hand tool will yield high quantity (more of the item) on HQ results, the same item that has an "affinity" with the main hand tool can yeild high quality (+!,+2,+3) ny crafting with its non-0affinity tool, in this case the off hand.

If you dont know if the item has affinity with which tool, you can make an educated guess. I will use alchemy as an example since its my highest craft. As an alchemist I use an alembic (main hand) and mortar/pestle (off hand). If I think about making glue in real life it would logically be made by an alembic, you take the materials and boil them down until left with a sticky substance, so the item has affinity with the main hand, which means that this item will produce high yield on main hand and high quality with off hand. Take the item sleeping powder, its made from belladonna leaves, logically in real life you would use a mortar/pestle to grind down the leaves until your left with a fine powder...sleeping powder, so this items affinity is with off hand tool, which means off hand tool will produce high yield, main hand will produce high quality.

This is what the devs are referring to by some items use craftsmanship and some use magic craftsmanship.

As far as choosing the right gear this girl said it well:

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Originally Posted by AuctionGirl

Importance for all Classes (Grinding)

1) Control
2) Craftsmanship
3) Magic Craftsmanship

Without Control, you may progress quicker, but you are more often going to go unstable and then lose 30+ durability quickly if your Control is too low. Craftsmanship is what helps the progress move along quicker, too low of craftsmanship causes you not to get as many "Success 20%" but more "Success 11-13%". Magic Craftsmanship is for HQing products, the higher your Magic Craftsmanship the more "Quality" you gain per success. But remember, without Control & Craftsmanship, Magic Craftsmanship is a waste. Because unstables will quickly halve your quality on a Chaotic Explosion.

I don't think certain recipes are any easier with higher magic craftsmanship vs craftsmanship. I have done a lot of crafting and almost every crafting class is Rank 40 or above. I hope this information helps.

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Hopefully that will clear some things up

Your theory about real life relation makes sense to a point but doesn't hold true for all. There's no real world way to turn fish into crystals. You don't construct a bow with a saw. They have stated that the difference between main and offhand is how they handle HQ.

Does the stats of the off hand affect synths even when you are not using it?

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Your theory about real life relation makes sense to a point but doesn't hold true for all. There's no real world way to turn fish into crystals.You don't construct a bow with a saw.

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True it doesnt work all the time but I did say to make an educated GUESS

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They have stated that the difference between main and offhand is how they handle HQ.

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Isn't that what I just said, I explained the difference between items affinity with main and off hand weapons and how that relates to weather you get high yield or high quality

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Does the stats of the off hand affect synths even when you are not using it?

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By equipping a off hand tool, you can see it does NOT add any points to your total craft/ magic craft as seen in the attribute window, because of this it is my opinion that you only get the benefits from the tool you are using for that particular synth, otherwise it wouldn't matter which tool you used.

Well materials can yield + or larger quantity. Finished items (gear) can only yield + for HQ. I don't think the recipes have a main/offhand affinity per recipe.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Well materials can yield + or larger quantity. Finished items (gear) can only yield + for HQ. I don't think the recipes have a main/offhand affinity per recipe.

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Ok take carpentry for example. Say you want to make a bow. You have a saw for your main hand tool, and a hammer/chisel as a off hand tool. Let's make an educated guess and say a bow would more likely be made using hammer/chisel. That means the items affinity is with the off hand tool, and high quality (+1,+2,+3) would be achieved with the main hand tool. It makes sense

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Originally Posted by AuctionGirl

Importance for all Classes (Grinding)

1) Control
2) Craftsmanship
3) Magic Craftsmanship

Without Control, you may progress quicker, but you are more often going to go unstable and then lose 30+ durability quickly if your Control is too low. Craftsmanship is what helps the progress move along quicker, too low of craftsmanship causes you not to get as many "Success 20%" but more "Success 11-13%". Magic Craftsmanship is for HQing products, the higher your Magic Craftsmanship the more "Quality" you gain per success. But remember, without Control & Craftsmanship, Magic Craftsmanship is a waste. Because unstables will quickly halve your quality on a Chaotic Explosion.

I don't think certain recipes are any easier with higher magic craftsmanship vs craftsmanship. I have done a lot of crafting and almost every crafting class is Rank 40 or above. I hope this information helps.

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Magic Craftsmanship works exactly like Craftsmanship, it depends on the recipe as to which is used. Qualtiy gain is dependent on your attributes and the tool used.

I am surprised you got to rank 40 without ever noticing this...Hell, SE themselves explained this much. >_>

And Obei, both hands can yield high quality for finished items and Toxic Powder uses Craftsmanship...so logically you would use the main hand unless doing it for items.

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Originally Posted by MonsieurVerde

Magic Craftsmanship works exactly like Craftsmanship, it depends on the recipe as to which is used. Qualtiy gain is dependent on your attributes and the tool used.

I am surprised you got to rank 40 without ever noticing this...Hell, SE themselves explained this much. >_>

And Obei, both hands can yield high quality for finished items and Toxic Powder uses Craftsmanship...so logically you would use the main hand unless doing it for items.

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Not according to any of the data I've collected

SE explained what?

Whats toxic powder, Ive never heard of this, you mean poison powder?

MonsieurVerde, you are correct in some of what you said. SE wrote the help page you are talking about in October 2010, and if you played since the beginning, you would know that Crafting has been changed a few times. In the very beginning it was so easy to do anything, it was more what tool you had in your hand vs what you were crafting. Since they patched it I believe in the November patch, its a little different.

This is my Theory (What affects success in ranking order most important to least important)...

1) Your Rank vs Item Rank (You can do up to 9 ranks below to synth an item, granted 9 ranks below your success sucks, Each rank closer you increase that success rate)
2) Main Hand/Off Hand Vs Items Preferred Tool (What I mean by this, is its easier to make an item that you produce more quantity than it is to make an item that produces HQs, this is IF your control/craftmanship and magic craftsmanship are the same for both, which they never really are)
3) Moon Phase (Some moon phases are easier to success and some are easier to HQ)
4) Control vs Item Required Control (The closer you are to this, the less unstables you will get)
5) Craftsmanship vs Item Required Craftsmanship (If you have less than the required amount, you just get lower % on success, this only affects success in the fact it takes more successful turns to advance to 100%, but if you have enough control and other items in your favor, you will success just fine)
6) Magic Craftsmanship (This helps success also, but very minimally, this mostly helps Quality go up on successes, for those that don't believe me, please test this out, my results show this)

I do agree with some of those posts, but the crafting system is not as advanced as you may think, its actually very simple.

No matter how high your Stats Vs Items stats, how perfect moon phase is etc.. you never go above 99% success, there is always a chance to fail. In fact, the game will MAKE you fail if your success % for the last X synths > what you should be at. So expect to fail, you can never be 100% success when synthesizing items above your rank. Below, it can be 99% success.

My Character Profile

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Originally Posted by AuctionGirl

MonsieurVerde, you are correct in some of what you said. SE wrote the help page you are talking about in October 2010, and if you played since the beginning, you would know that Crafting has been changed a few times. In the very beginning it was so easy to do anything, it was more what tool you had in your hand vs what you were crafting. Since they patched it I believe in the November patch, its a little different.

This is my Theory (What affects success in ranking order most important to least important)...

1) Your Rank vs Item Rank (You can do up to 9 ranks below to synth an item, granted 9 ranks below your success sucks, Each rank closer you increase that success rate)
2) Main Hand/Off Hand Vs Items Preferred Tool (What I mean by this, is its easier to make an item that you produce more quantity than it is to make an item that produces HQs, this is IF your control/craftmanship and magic craftsmanship are the same for both, which they never really are)
3) Moon Phase (Some moon phases are easier to success and some are easier to HQ)
4) Control vs Item Required Control (The closer you are to this, the less unstables you will get)
5) Craftsmanship vs Item Required Craftsmanship (If you have less than the required amount, you just get lower % on success, this only affects success in the fact it takes more successful turns to advance to 100%, but if you have enough control and other items in your favor, you will success just fine)
6) Magic Craftsmanship (This helps success also, but very minimally, this mostly helps Quality go up on successes, for those that don't believe me, please test this out, my results show this)

I do agree with some of those posts, but the crafting system is not as advanced as you may think, its actually very simple.

No matter how high your Stats Vs Items stats, how perfect moon phase is etc.. you never go above 99% success, there is always a chance to fail. In fact, the game will MAKE you fail if your success % for the last X synths > what you should be at. So expect to fail, you can never be 100% success when synthesizing items above your rank. Below, it can be 99% success.

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This is good theory, the data I've collected supports this. Thanks for your post.

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Q. What do the crafter-related attributes Craftsmanship, Magic Craftsmanhip, and Control each do?
A. Among recipes in the game, there are those for which the rate of progress and chance of success are increased by higher Craftsmanship, and those for which they are determined by Magic Craftsmanship. Control helps to reduce the occurrence of aetherial sparking (see below), and exerts its influence over both types of recipes just mentioned.

All recipes, however, have set attribute requirements. Attempting a recipe with attributes below those required will result in lessened progress and quality, even for successful actions.

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Source: http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...f271d7a0a84d5f

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Discipline of the Hand
The effect of attributes on synthesis is limited. When attempting to craft a high-quality item, however, the likelihood of success increases as the attribute most closely associated with the tool being used rises. As the attributes associated with the main and off hand tools of each class are different, players may wish to give careful consideration to the class on which they wish to focus. A list showing the attributes related with the main and off hand tools of each class can be found below.

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Source: http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...5e1bf4ab725f29

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Q. What type of attributes and stats are best for crafting classes?

A.
Attributes themselves have little influence over the progression of an actual act of synthesis. The higher the stats on the tool being used to craft, however, the easier it will be for the Quality value of the synthesized item to increase. Though results vary from recipe to recipe, a higher Quality value means that a synthesis attempt is more likely to produce either a high-quality item,* or a high-quantity yield.

Also, as the primary and secondary tool stats are different for each Disciple of the Hand class (see list below), it is important to focus on those associated with the class that you most wish to develop.**

* High-quality item names end in a numeral, such as +1 or +2, and possess higher stats than their normal-quality counterparts.
** Allotted bonus points can be reset and reassigned from the Point Allotment interface.

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Source: http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...54e0866aa89b46

This is all that SE has officially stated as far as main/offhand and stats go. Officially, there is no correlation between the logical tool to use and success or quality. Some recipes use craftsmanship, others use magic craftsmanship. At this time we really don't know which use which or what crafting disciplines favor which.

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Q. What do the crafter-related attributes Craftsmanship, Magic Craftsmanhip, and Control each do?
A. Among recipes in the game, there are those for which the rate of progress and chance of success are increased by higher Craftsmanship, and those for which they are determined by Magic Craftsmanship. Control helps to reduce the occurrence of aetherial sparking (see below), and exerts its influence over both types of recipes just mentioned.

All recipes, however, have set attribute requirements. Attempting a recipe with attributes below those required will result in lessened progress and quality, even for successful actions.
Source: http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...f271d7a0a84d5f

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You are quoting OLD code/help, there have been many patches that changed how this worked.

About the stats, yes they play a role, but very minimally. I have tested this extensively and found that keeping my all my stats at minimum 80, keeps me just fine with almost every job, yes I once had 140 INT for alchemy and I get same success rates as having 80, so its not like going WAY above will help, but maybe having 10 INT might hurt you, I have not tested that part of it.

To keep crafting simple, please refer to my first post.

Control > Craftsmanship > magic craftsmanship

Try to keep the best clothing you can that gets ALL those stats in there, the coatee's and other items with no control but a lot of craftsmanship are not as good as they appear to be. Always equip the best tool (giving the most stats, control being most important) And you will have the highest success rates you can.

Hope this helps anyone who is confused about crafting.

Agree that this needs to be explained, they need to have stats requirements in the recipe IMO.

If you are under the text goes red if you are over it goes green.

Add text for all the required crafting stats and dex,str,vit,mnd,int,pie if they are applicable.

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Originally Posted by AuctionGirl

You are quoting OLD code/help, there have been many patches that changed how this worked.

About the stats, yes they play a role, but very minimally. I have tested this extensively and found that keeping my all my stats at minimum 80, keeps me just fine with almost every job, yes I once had 140 INT for alchemy and I get same success rates as having 80, so its not like going WAY above will help, but maybe having 10 INT might hurt you, I have not tested that part of it.

To keep crafting simple, please refer to my first post.

Control > Craftsmanship > magic craftsmanship

Try to keep the best clothing you can that gets ALL those stats in there, the coatee's and other items with no control but a lot of craftsmanship are not as good as they appear to be. Always equip the best tool (giving the most stats, control being most important) And you will have the highest success rates you can.

Hope this helps anyone who is confused about crafting.

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Attributes play a role in how much quality you gain based on the tool you are using, nothing more. Moon phase has no effect on crafting, never did. Magic Craftsmanship works like craftsmanship for the recipes that use it, this has not changed and is in accordance with what SE said. Control affects aetherial sparking, nothing more. You would benefit from Short Gloves over Half Gloves if the recipe uses Craftsmanship. Unless you are already at a wall. Control is pointless unless you are going for a High Quality since if you are even trying to do that you will have a high level tool and a high level which means you won't need bonus craft/m craft.

@Jinko, no recipe requires a base amount of any physical attribute. Some require a certain amount of Craft/M.craft if you don't want to watch your stuff blow up or progress slowly.

Lots of bad information in this topic.
Go by what the developers have said, which has been posted. Don't go by what most people say. They're just talking.

Magic craftsmanship does not increase quality or HQ rates. It increases success rates and % completion rates for crafts aspected to magic craftsmanship.

Control does not decrease the likelihood of instability, except to decrease the rate of aetherial sparking progression. Aetherial sparking increases instability rates via higher likelihood of failure. If you're not sparking, control isn't doing anything for your instability rate unless you would otherwise be sparking right now if it weren't for control.

Element aspect has nothing to do with the crafting system until proven otherwise. Primary statistics play very limited role in HQ rates, via slight increase in quality gain. 100 STR versus 20 str on a blacksmith sword of quality: 105...each of those setups has exactly the same HQ rate because the quality is the same.

Sad, but true until proven otherwise because that's what the devs said.