Poor FFXIV

oh poor ff14, SE is truly messing up FF these past few years,
I actually dont mind ff14. I mean yeah its hella broken, but it can be fun.

just needs like a year more work on it.

all i have to say is SE please DON'T make a ff7 remake, your will most certain screw it up and turn it into 1 long closed road, no world , crap fest like you did with ff13.

actually dont make any more FF games SE cause they are nowhere near what they used to be. :p

let those of us who remember FF for what it used to be not have its good name tarnished by some of the crap you make these days. oh you guys gotta get back to making FF13-2, FF13 AGIATO ,FF13-VS okay have fun. lol yikes!

All though this seems like a trollish post, XIII did suck in my opinion, it only made me more made when American game magazines gave it 8's and 9's saying it "cut out the jrpg riff raff", that jrpg riff raff was my favorite. Next time I'd restructure your post to be more constructive to the what you can actually add to this community that would help the game. If anyone does reply to this, they may flame you the name of the forum is kind of a flame starter.

XIII was a hit or miss with people. Alot didn't mind it, alot despised it. I feel although it was not the best ff game they made by any means it is also no where near as bad as everyone makes it sound.

And I doubt SE will stop making FF crap games, especially when they continue to sell 4-5million copys every release.

yeah i might get flamed but it was just my opinion,i miss the classic jrpg stuff aswell, i enjoy the turn based fighting system that was FF. as the french would say... Le sigh...

i think the people who played FF13 were happy with it because it was like god of war meets FF, why cant a jrpg be a freaking jrpg. i was half expecting the action sequences in FF13 you know press X to jump on monsters back,R1 to kill monster. 2 words World Map lol oh world maps how i miss you...

No offence, but Final Fantasy games were never masterpieces the likes of which the world had never seen. I see no difference between quality as the series progresses.

Yeah I think they took the complaints of some Westerner's too seriously, because those people complaining about FF's shouldn't be playing them then, that's the game, stop whining. When they made XIII they listened to a lot of whining. The world looked great, the battle system was flashy, but there was NO EXPLORATION, and not one city....lame. (at least in my opinion), so yeah XIII wasn't totally bad but everything I liked about the FF series was taken out of that game, I replayed VII because of it, and it had crappier graphics. FFIII is my favorite because you could change the classes of your party members it was like the FFXI of FFrpgs, bring some of that back, just because you have pretty graphics doesn't mean you can't give us a exploration. DONT APPLY ANYTHING FROM XIII to XIV, outside of the game engine which you already did lol. [ my message to the devs]

ff7 was very good rpg. 8 was ok 9 was decent. did not like 12-13. i would say xenogears> any rpg.

I liked FF13. It also sold over 6 million copies, so it didn't "suck" for a LOT of people... thus deserving of it's good reviews.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

I liked FF13. It also sold over 6 million copies, so it didn't "suck" for a LOT of people... thus deserving of it's good reviews.

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Just because a game sells 6 million titles does not make it good. I bought the game first week and I didn't like it, just because I bought it didn't make it a good game, it sold 6 million copies because it had "Final Fantasy" before it. I didn't call it the worst game ever, but they did cut out all the exploration until the last 20% of the game............(thats really all I can say)

Final Fantasy 13 seems to appeal to a different player base than their original player base

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Originally Posted by zaviermhigo

Just because a game sells 6 million titles does not make it good. I bought the game first week and I didn't like it, just because I bought it didn't make it a good game, it sold 6 million copies because it had "Final Fantasy" before it. I didn't call it the worst game ever, but they did cut out all the exploration until the last 20% of the game............(thats really all I can say)

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Sorry dude, crappy games don't sell 6 million copies.

Also, the "lack of exploration" argument is very, very weak. There's no exploration in the vast majority of the previous FF games either. You can "wander the world"... but it doesn't get you anywhere. It's either just a bunch of random encounters while you see the mountains, forests and deserts they used as filler, or you find the rare town/city that you're not supposed to go to yet and are locked out of all the content.

There is no exploration. The "world map" is just there to give you the illusion. What they did in FFXIII was essentially "zoom in" on the characters. So instead of having a 3rd person and "orbital" view, you just have 3rd person.

I guess the question here is, is a new player base necessary. They're assuming this new playerbase A) will buy more copies, B) no new players would be attracted to the old game. (this can't be true since a lot of people buy the remade FF's on DS, and a lot of these people had never played the title previously)

Its like what they did with FFXIV, instead of going after WoW or whoever's playerbase, they first should of tried to take XI's playerbase [which they haven't actually, XI's playerbase is growing and is making people wonder what its life expectancy really is, they're adding new content to it also which will prolong it]so they could have people pay for this game, and then go after a new target. Alienation of your actual fans is a bad business strategy no matter how you cut it.

The worst thing about FFXIII wasn't the gameplay, LOL. It was the annoying, sappy, shmaltzy, sentimental drivel that they used as a basis for the story, not to mention the ridiculous final boss fight that made absolutely no sense.

And how many times can Final Fantasy characters use the expression "I was just running away" before it gets really repetetive and annoying.

Every single game there always has to be one tortured emo kid that is "just running away" and ends up facing his problems. It's retarded. It was okay when Shinji Ikari did it in Evangelion, but now that every single character has the same sob story, I'm sorry, but nobody cares anymore.

Lightning was an interesting character, hiding behind her macho facade, but did she have to spell it out for us?

The whole thing was just so laboured and contrived and it annoyed me to death. Like it actually killed me.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Sorry dude, crappy games don't sell 6 million copies.

Also, the "lack of exploration" argument is very, very weak. There's no exploration in the vast majority of the previous FF games either. You can "wander the world"... but it doesn't get you anywhere. It's either just a bunch of random encounters while you see the mountains, forests and deserts they used as filler, or you find the rare town/city that you're not supposed to go to yet and are locked out of all the content.

There is no exploration. The "world map" is just there to give you the illusion. What they did in FFXIII was essentially "zoom in" on the characters. So instead of having a 3rd person and "orbital" view, you just have 3rd person.

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I beg to differ dude, in almost every other FF title you could go inside a town, you could walk across a map area and grind mobs anywhere, you usually chose to do it outside the dungeon you needed due to mob difficulty. In XIII they treated you like an idiot...this I'll say is because they didn't give you the whole battle system right away. I would of got the freaking battle system with the first mock fight, it wasn't that difficult. There was no backtracking in that game and the only npc you could talk to was a little floating sphere. You may disagree, but there are at least 20 forums on the internet that list these same problems, and sure there are 20 forums that list you're argument, I still honestly believe at least 3 million of those sells are just "new ff omg I played all the ffs, i'll buy this one". You may not feel like XIII was that crappy but honestly I don't want to pick up another FF title if they are going to deviate from what I previously liked, that is my problem, just like its your problem if you want to keep playing them.



And this is just personal, it differs from person to person, but I agree with the previous poster who talked about the characters, I did not get emotionally attached to any of these characters. Seriously Japan, I'm black and I am tired of the racist black guy with a fro, it was ok with DBZ back in the day, it is no longer ok. I'm also tired of Hope in general, I wanted him killed off (just my opinion again, I hated his whining about his stupid mom who let go, SHE LET GO, so should hope lol)

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

I liked FF13. It also sold over 6 million copies, so it didn't "suck" for a LOT of people... thus deserving of it's good reviews.

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Just because a game sells 6 million copies dose not make it a good game, and please never make that correlation. The Final Fantasy Franchise is a gaming power house with tradition, and expectations. I am one of those people who bought Final Fantasy XIII because it was a Final Fantasy much like I'm sure the majority did. Shortly after my purchase of the Final Fantasy title I realized it was different crap from Final Fantasy XII but still crap. Square Enix has so far in my book made 3 blunders Final Fantasy X-2, XII, and XIII needles to say Im not buying Final Fantasy XIII-2, i learned my lesson.

Edit: Ever since the merger of Square and Enix to make the crap tastic team Square Enix we have not seen a good Final Fantasy outside of a few decent FF games.

Square had classics like Chrono Trigger, Chrono Cross, Secret of Mana, Seiken Densetsu 3, Xenogears, Brave Fencer Musashi, Parasite Eve, Parasite Eve 2, Saga Frontier, Romancing Saga, Vagrant Story, Kingdom Hearts, and of course FF. what the hell has Square Enix done that will be as memorable as those titles, for me that just one game Final Fantasy XI...

Actually, in every past FF free roaming was a mirage. You could roam around, but you were very dependent to the veicles you had in that moment. that's mean, until you get airship, it's a fake free roaming sice you can't go truly everywhere.
In most western rpg instead, you could go everywhere from the beginning, if you can survive :P

Btw, the hell is this topic for ? <_<

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Originally Posted by Bled

Just because a game sells 6 million copies dose not make it a good game, and please never make that correlation. The Final Fantasy Franchise is a gaming power house with tradition, and expectations. I am one of those people who bought Final Fantasy XIII because it was a Final Fantasy much like I'm sure the majority did. Shortly after my purchase of the Final Fantasy title I realized it was different crap from Final Fantasy XII but still crap. Square Enix has so far in my book made 3 blunders Final Fantasy X-2, XII, and XIII needles to say Im not buying Final Fantasy XIII-2, i learned my lesson.

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true strike. exactly what I was trying to say. Square enix has not made a good FF title in my opinon, Squaresoft on the other hand has. FFX was the last squaresoft rpg, and FFXI was the last squaresoft FF title. After XI, everything is square enix. I don't hate enix actually (dragon warrior monster I and II are some of my favorite, I can't put my finger on why the merge would effect it at all, I just noticed that the good games were made under squaresoft in my opinion.

I was rather disapointed with FFXIII. Ok, the graphics were top notch, but that doesn't make up for lack of story-line.

Also, the whole Linear thing has never worked for me in regards to FF games. It didnt work with FFX, STILL didnt work with FFXIII. There was a major lack of side-quests. The ones they offered were repetative and gave nothing extra to any aspect of the game.

On the plus side, the music was nice, and they had an interesting twist on the fighting system which kept it fast paced and enjoyable.

I truely hope the FF series gets back in touch with its roots.

Kimiko x

The FFXIV fail launch is the best thing that has ever happened to SE, they now see how outdated they were becoming, they have halted launches on all of there upcoming titles to review the game and to see if they can improve it. They have started giving feedback and listening to there fan/player base, hell they have created official forums for us to voice our opinions on!!

Hopefully FFXIV can get better its going to be a long road to recovery but they are basically redesigning an entire game graphics aside. Good Luck SE.

My thing is, they were assuming the old FF titles were outdated, and I'm not sure if they really were, its just the gaming world has opened up to these "casual" gamers, which some of them aren't casual, they are just spammers, and they want instant gratification in gaming, and I personally don't want this. They need to branch out more, make classic FF titles like III and IV (like they are doing on ds, but spread to other consoles), and give spammers what they need to, but don't advertise the typically jrpg as being for spammer, and vice versa. Western rpgs aren't even what they used to be in the story line department, look at Dragon Age I to II, these are both new and II was a huge downgrade as far as storyline went, leaving such an open ended finale to the game which seemed like you need an addon just to summarize everything. Mass effect 1 to mass effect 2 was streamlined. The move between JRPG and WRPG is streamlining, some of you may like it, but honestly I don't have ALL the time in the world, I go to college weekdays and work weekends, but when I do have a free day I would like to spend the whole day gaming and NOT FINISH THE GAME. I treat rpgs like a good book, i never want them to end, but I could finish the average rpg in a day or two now a days. FFXIII I couldn't but not for the right reasons, plus they gave you an achievement just for walking I felt.

TROLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

TROLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I want image support on these forums so i can post this:

http://gentoo-blog.de/wp-content/upl...-the-troll.jpg

Too be fair, I did say this was a troll topic, but then again FF does need to add a forums almost for why they're loyal fan base is not happy with their games lately. On that note, we should end this forum, for the dev's because it detracts from dev's reading actually good suggestions.

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Originally Posted by zaviermhigo

Too be fair, I did say this was a troll topic, but then again FF does need to add a forums almost for why they're loyal fan base is not happy with their games lately. On that note, we should end this forum, for the dev's because it detracts from dev's reading actually good suggestions.

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O i am sure they are not reading this lol.

FFXIII was by no means a crappy game. It was a graphic masterpiece with skilled and capable people working on it. A fantastic game. It just sucked as a final fantasy.
More than Final Fantasy i would have called it "Eccentric Soap Fantasy"...

Also, talking of copies sold is ridiculous. I can't even estimate how many people every year waste their time to go and watch fireworks. Fireworks are generally regarded as something pretty and good to watch. Flashy colors. Deafening explosions.
It's obvious that when you spend a bunch of millions into a single game, it will be pretty, it will be exotic, it will be a spectacle to behold. Millions will buy it just to see the shiny graphics and argue about it with friends. Especially when it has the hype of such a famous game company all around it.

However that's not what i buy(bought) Square games for. Fireworks don't interest me. I want something deep, i want a good writer spilling his mind on the players for 80 hours through metaphors and under the pretense of a videogame with flawed characters. The story must have a meaning, it must carry emotion. The story, not the characters.

Soap Opera: about characters and their feelings. Relies on Empathy: character cries, you feel sad. Catharsis.
Final Fantasy: characters are devices to tell a story, which is itself a device to touch the player both emotionally and intellectually. Relies on stimulation. On actual fantasy.

Many have played Final Fantasy without giving it much thought, but a fan who was touched by the series won't be easily tricked by soap operas with a "Final Fantasy" logo stuck on them.

I didn't feel sorry for Cloud or pitied Squall. Zidane was simply annoying. They weren't charismatic at all. The roles they and the accompanying casts played however always conveyed greater truths and held subjective meanings to the players. I love the characters because i love the roles they represent, not the amount of whining they do. Final Fantasy is about the world it represents and not some overdone sentimental drama. It's about the meaning of going through it.

FFXIII had all the right ingredients, most of which way better than its predecessors, yet it lacked the fundamental emotion you can't bind to a single person or sterotype, it lacked the "final" in final fantasy, that feeling of total immersion, it lacked truth, it lacked meaning beyond that of being a cool show with charismatic characters. It was a cool game, but a bad final fantasy.

My argument is all over the place, but a book could be written about it without making it clear. Those who want to understand will understand.

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Originally Posted by Kirith

FFXIII was by no means a crappy game. It was a graphic masterpiece with skilled and capable people working on it. A fantastic game. It just sucked as a final fantasy.
More than Final Fantasy i would have called it "Eccentric Soap Fantasy"...

Also, talking of copies sold is ridiculous. I can't even estimate how many people every year waste their time to go and watch fireworks. Fireworks are generally regarded as something pretty and good to watch. Flashy colors. Deafening explosions.
It's obvious that when you spend a bunch of millions into a single game, it will be pretty, it will be exotic, it will be a spectacle to behold. Millions will buy it just to see the shiny graphics and argue about it with friends. Especially when it has the hype of such a famous game company all around it.

However that's not what i buy(bought) Square games for. Fireworks don't interest me. I want something deep, i want a good writer spilling his mind on the players for 80 hours through metaphors and under the pretense of a videogame with flawed characters. The story must have a meaning, it must carry emotion. The story, not the characters.

Soap Opera: about characters and their feelings. Relies on Empathy: character cries, you feel sad. Catharsis.
Final Fantasy: characters are devices to tell a story, which is itself a device to touch the player both emotionally and intellectually. Relies on stimulation. On actual fantasy.

Many have played Final Fantasy without giving it much thought, but a fan who was touched by the series won't be easily tricked by soap operas with a "Final Fantasy" logo stuck on them.

I didn't feel sorry for Cloud or pitied Squall. Gidan was simply annoying. They weren't charismatic at all. The roles they and the accompanying casts played however always conveyed greater truths and held subjective meanings to the players. I love the characters because i love the roles they represent, not the amount of whining they do. Final Fantasy is about the world it represents and not some overdone sentimental drama. It's about the meaning of going through it.

FFXIII had all the right ingredients, most of which way better than its predecessors, yet it lacked the fundamental emotion you can't bind to a single person or sterotype, it lacked the "final" in final fantasy, that feeling of total immersion, it lacked truth, it lacked meaning beyond that of being a cool show with charismatic characters. It was a cool game, but a bad final fantasy.

My argument is all over the place, but a book could be written about it without making it clear. Those who want to understand will understand.

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I felt your post got the point across, and i agree for the most part.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Sorry dude, crappy games don't sell 6 million copies.

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Just like crappy movies don't bring in millions of dollars.... unless they're made by Michael Bay.

I'd like to point out, again actually. That FF13 follows the Final Fantasy Formula pretty well. As it was established in FF2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9. The only ones it deviates from are 1, 3, 10, 11, and 12.

1. Player is introduces to either the main character by themselves or a group of friends who the main character is a part of, all the other members get sidelined eventually by other main characters.

2. The player learns about the main character while going through a storyline that is very narrow, the game guides them along the way to a specific point and very little exploration is needed if at all possible. If there is a world map it isn't accessable yet, or it is and most of the rest of the world is blocked off or the monsters are too strong.

3. After advancing into the story, it splits and you take control of a different party for a short amount of time following an alternate event at the same time as an event you already witnessed.

4. Eventually all the parties come together and the ultimate Big Bad is revealed. The whole party engages the big bad and has a huge revelation that causes everyone to question what they are fighting for and who they are.

5a. Characters are now dumped into a world where the transportation is completely unlocked and for most purposes they can go anywhere in the game except storybased areas that have become locked down.

5b. The characters eventually get either Teleported to an alternate reality, end up on the moon/twin planet, or ceremoniously dumped onto open worldmap with the ability to explore the whole thing.

6. Once there they have to gather up a bunch of stuff, or are forced to experience things that make them change their minds about who they are once again. The Big Bad might come taunt them, or The groups possibly temporarily separate one last time and a party member might leave the game as being playable forever (Not just Aerith, Shadow can do it too, so do a lot of people from 2-4-5).

7. After the crisis in the party is over the party heads to the final dungeons, explores it and fights the big bad one last time. After defeating the big bad the party finds out more truths about what really has been happening, everything is attempted to be explained.

I had fun with FFXIII.
People forgot that this wasnt even and JRPG, it was an action game, they told everyone but it seems most people just hear what they want to.
And i woner how many FFs were so bad that people scream "FF is dying"...how many FFs were that bad?...
I personally didnt like FXII but thats it, i dont understand why you want the same Game over and over, or do you want EA like Games every year with little to no changes...or CoDs?
Nostalgic is what kills the games nowadays.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

I'd like to point out, again actually. That FF13 follows the Final Fantasy Formula pretty well. As it was established in FF2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9. The only ones it deviates from are 1, 3, 10, 11, and 12.

1. Player is introduces to either the main character by themselves or a group of friends who the main character is a part of, all the other members get sidelined eventually by other main characters.

2. The player learns about the main character while going through a storyline that is very narrow, the game guides them along the way to a specific point and very little exploration is needed if at all possible. If there is a world map it isn't accessable yet, or it is and most of the rest of the world is blocked off or the monsters are too strong.

3. After advancing into the story, it splits and you take control of a different party for a short amount of time following an alternate event at the same time as an event you already witnessed.

4. Eventually all the parties come together and the ultimate Big Bad is revealed. The whole party engages the big bad and has a huge revelation that causes everyone to question what they are fighting for and who they are.

5a. Characters are now dumped into a world where the transportation is completely unlocked and for most purposes they can go anywhere in the game except storybased areas that have become locked down.

5b. The characters eventually get either Teleported to an alternate reality, end up on the moon/twin planet, or ceremoniously dumped onto open worldmap with the ability to explore the whole thing.

6. Once there they have to gather up a bunch of stuff, or are forced to experience things that make them change their minds about who they are once again. The Big Bad might come taunt them, or The groups possibly temporarily separate one last time and a party member might leave the game as being playable forever (Not just Aerith, Shadow can do it too, so do a lot of people from 2-4-5).

7. After the crisis in the party is over the party heads to the final dungeons, explores it and fights the big bad one last time. After defeating the big bad the party finds out more truths about what really has been happening, everything is attempted to be explained.

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FF formula =/= just storyline
FF formula = Recurring elements such as plot themes, character names, and game mechanics

Edit: If your referring to just FF storyline formula you need to specify but i believe you got it right on the money in a general outline.

Storyline for the most part ends up being a group of people fighting a great evil, while exploring the characters inner struggles. Now just because a FF follows this theme still does not guarantee a good story, much like FF XII which attempted to follow this formula but followed it to the bare minimum thus inducing a snooze fest.

FF13 has the reoccurring plot themes, character names, and game mechanics. It also has Chocobos, Tonberries and Cactaurs.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

FF13 has the reoccurring plot themes, character names, and game mechanics. It also has Chocobos, Tonberries and Cactaurs.

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I edited my last post so im not sure if you saw it before posting but like i said above. Just because a FF follows this theme still does not guarantee a good story, much like FF XII which attempted to follow this formula but followed it to the bare minimum thus inducing a snooze fest.

Square Enix is using the right equation to make a Final Fantasy but they are inserting all the wrong variables.

x= plot themes
y= Character names
z= Mechanics

FF formula:

X+Y+Z=21
FF7
13+2+6=21
FF8
3+1+17=21
FF13
4+2+8=21 ????

rianshima, can you explain what you mean by "let's remember what FF used to be like".
i've played all of them expect for X-2, and tbh, i didn't see any flaws within the games.
FF is still what it used to be to be.
just with better graphics and a different story & gameplay with every game.
FF has been around for over 20 years now, and in total there are 14 games with pre/sequels and spin-offs,
if the games allways stay the same, just with a different story setting i think the games would have been long forgotten.

what i like about FF so much, and why i still buy it, is that none of them feel alike, while still wearing the same name.
of course, you can't allways expect top quality.
teams that used to work on older, or more sucessful titles don't allways work on newer titles.
but, that's the same with every game i think.

FFXIV is no exception.
while there are some flaws in the gameplay mechanics, it still offers what every other FF does.
and honestly, i think it has its good points aswell that currently this game is undergoing so many changes to make it more enjoyable.
after all our feedback is valuable, and this might lead to changes that some are really looking forward to.

don't hate the devs for trying something new, atleast they still show the interset in trying new things, and not just repeat what has worked once.

In all theres over 50+ pierces of media (not including drawn artwork and music) with some tie to the name Final Fantasy, even if its just cameo characters like Erghiez.

Zavier you make good posts but they need spaces. Please paragraph, wot not fun to read. But continue :)

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let those of us who remember FF for what it used to be not have its good name tarnished by some of the crap you make these days. oh you guys gotta get back to making FF13-2, FF13 AGIATO ,FF13-VS okay have fun. lol yikes!

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And let those of us who aren't so damn thick headed and still enjoy FF for what it is, still enjoy FF.

On it's worst day, FF title games are still better than any other game out there. Except this one, which I still like a lot.

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Originally Posted by zaviermhigo

Just because a game sells 6 million titles does not make it good. I bought the game first week and I didn't like it, just because I bought it didn't make it a good game, it sold 6 million copies because it had "Final Fantasy" before it. I didn't call it the worst game ever, but they did cut out all the exploration until the last 20% of the game............(thats really all I can say)

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Honey bee, when games suck they don't sell a lot because word of mouth gets around and it will prevent sales. People seen streams, gotten info and etc on FFXIII a quarter of a year before it released to the west, it wouldn't have sold well in the west if it truly did bomb as a game.

Linearity in itself isn't a bad thing because people forget every FF game is linear till GENERALLY around the last half of the game, because you're typically "following a trail" and can rarely divert from that path due to invisible plot walls...FFXIII just had literal walls.

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let those of us who remember FF for what it used to be not have its good name tarnished by some of the crap you make these days. oh you guys gotta get back to making FF13-2, FF13 AGIATO ,FF13-VS okay have fun. lol yikes!

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I've been playing Final Fantasy longer then most people have been alive. I was about 6 years old when FF1 came out and I was enthralled. I thought it was great fun going around stabbing goblins.

I've followed it and Square pretty hardcore since then. I've played numbers and numbers of their great games, and some of their not so great games.

The only FF I have ever had a problem with was FF8. Because Squall Dies.

Well not that he dies specifically I could care less about that. But more because the whole game just twisted and contorted till you couldn't understand what was happening. Then you saw pictures of Squall with no face. NO FACE.


Haunted my dreams for weeks.


Anyway. Final Fantasy is still my favorite game series, but Nier.... Nier is my favorite game of all time.