About DoL/DoH SP.

I have been wondering this for awhile now, and I am suprised it hasnt been brought up but...
Why do DoL and DoH get random SP for each successful craft/gather attempt?

For DoW/DoM it is Your rank vs enemy rank = set SP (Unless you have people hitting the un-engageable.
For DoH it is Your Rank Vs recipe rank = Sp +/- 1 to 80 or so.
For DoL it is Your Ranv Vs Node grade = SP +/- 1-6 or so.

....Why?

Can any any Devs (Or yoshi-p) say why this is, what determines a DoL/DoH SP gain, and if it will be changed someday?

(and please dont say this is another anti-RMT measure ><)

DoL SP is more like... half of what you should be earning unless you have sweat of brow active. (notice how physical exp earned is somewhere close to 2x of the SP you earn on every job except DoL jobs) :/ And it's capped at around 300 sp

(screams of badly thought out anti-RMT measures to me) :P

As for the varying sp in crafting I always thought it had to do with durability/remainder and quality.

I have actually had the sp gains give the highest amounts with 1 dur less, and less with 60 dur left. It is just plain random. It needs to be one set number, your rank vs recipe rank. Same with DoL.

Yeah, it would be nice to not have to low-ball my estimates of sp/synth to get an idea of how much I should gather before I start. . .

SP gained on a crafter is lightly dependent on finishing quality. Lightly enough to not be worth bolding on a grind synth, but heavy enough to confuse you severely. Took me FOREVER to finally realize the connection between the low quality variation found in grinding and the low variation in sp gained. It wasn't until I started trying to HQ high-level things that gave me SP that I put two and two together, because those synths are all over the place in terms of finishing quality due to luck.

SP gained on a gatherer, I think, Is dependent on the level of the item you gather. Not sure. I try not to pay attention to the 80-90 sp I get a swing because it hurts.

I agree with peregrine, DoH sp seems to change depending on durability and quality. Not too sure about DoL though, I havn't noticed a pattern

True. But why does it have to be that way. they changed DoM/DoW SP to stop being random a long time ago, DoL/DoH should follow suite

Why does it even matter? It will average out to a specific number and if SE were to change it chances are they'd either use that average or they'd use a lower figure. They changed it for battle classes because the randomness was based on per action not per mob. The crafting equivalent would be having a chance at getting 80 SP for each standard you use and sometimes getting none for a grind synth.

I just tested those theories:

38 qual/67 dur = 313 sp
31 qual/54 dur = 340 sp
64 qual/87 dur = 334 sp
35 qual/57 dur = 309 sp
40 qual/74 dur = 289!sp
29 qual/63 dur = 313 sp
32 qual/58 dur = 294 sp

Analyzing those, you can see that sp gains are dependent on on nothing but the /random.
And it does matter. theres no reason for sp to be randomized.

For DoL it is based on the level of what/where you are gathering. With a fudge (random) factor. At fishing 25 I get about 2X the SP in grade 4 waters than grade 3. Can't reliably find grade 4 fish schools to test on so this is open water.

As for DoH, I find levequest rewards are based on quality and durability at finish. Quality is weighted far more heavily than durability and the random factor seems to be in play but of minor influence. I believe I see a slight weighting toward quality in grinding for SPs, but the random factor here is at least as strong as any weighting, perhaps stronger.

Reika, that is a classic example on an inadequate statistical sample. You need ... IDK going to go with 500 tests and a spreadsheet minimum.

You need to see that 500 times to see that it is cleary just random and not based on anything? That one little test proved my point pretty well.

Dol have it by far the worst. miner and botanist do not even have grade 6 nodes to work with for those last levels and you get aproximatly 250 shots of "Good" sp per day while that might sound like a decent amount, not so much when your looking at 120 sp at best. with doh, yea it might be random but you can ball park your estimated sp gain per synth.

I think what they might be going for in putting DoL/DoH on /random is to simulate how a given area doesn't just have only level XX mobs in it.

For DoH, anyway, you pick a recipe, let's say level 20, and you grind that recipe 100 times. When you go out into the field as a DoW/M, the enemies have a level range. You're not just fighting level 20s, though they're could be a good amount of them around. Usually the levels fluctuate slightly +/- 1 or 2 levels. This randomizes SP a bit. I mean, granted, you could specifically *only* go after whatever level you're aiming for, but the added travel and search time isn't going to make it worthwhile.

I could be giving SE more credit than they deserve, though, I'm just trying to guess at a logical thought process. I'd be perfectly content with static SP gains on DoH/DoL. The less /random there is, the happier I am (usually).

I'm with Xenor, what would changing this accomplish? They would for sure just give us the average if they fixed SP so in the end it would be like nothing changed.

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Originally Posted by Martyr

I think what they might be going for in putting DoL/DoH on /random is to simulate how a given area doesn't just have only level XX mobs in it.

For DoH, anyway, you pick a recipe, let's say level 20, and you grind that recipe 100 times. When you go out into the field as a DoW/M, the enemies have a level range. You're not just fighting level 20s, though they're could be a good amount of them around. Usually the levels fluctuate slightly +/- 1 or 2 levels. This randomizes SP a bit. I mean, granted, you could specifically *only* go after whatever level you're aiming for, but the added travel and search time isn't going to make it worthwhile.

I could be giving SE more credit than they deserve, though, I'm just trying to guess at a logical thought process. I'd be perfectly content with static SP gains on DoH/DoL. The less /random there is, the happier I am (usually).

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If the recipie didnt have just one rank I would agree with that..

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Originally Posted by Zephy

I'm with Xenor, what would changing this accomplish? They would for sure just give us the average if they fixed SP so in the end it would be like nothing changed.

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IF you think pessimistically. They need to raise crafting sp a bit anyways, since we cant link or share in DoH. So if it does change, they should give the max SP instead of the average.

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Originally Posted by Reika

If the recipie didnt have just one rank I would agree with that..

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This is why I think the thought process works. Since recipes *do* only have one static rank, they have to simulate the random +/- range somewhere, so they do it with the SP.

But, like I said earlier, random = fail. I'd much rather be inundated with information and dig through that to find what I need then have to play stupid guessing games due to sets of arbitrary random ranges.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reika

If the recipie didnt have just one rank I would agree with that..



IF you think pessimistically. They need to raise crafting sp a bit anyways, since we cant link or share in DoH. So if it does change, they should give the max SP instead of the average.

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Every post you make seems to follow the same theme.

"I want want want this and that for as little effort as possible".

Let's face it, you won't be happy until one synth takes you from rank 1 to 50.

There he goes.. assuming i am the only one that crafts in this game. Dont try to turn the post into a finger-pointing hateful flame fest please.

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Originally Posted by Xenor

Every post you make seems to follow the same theme.

"I want want want this and that for as little effort as possible".

Let's face it, you won't be happy until one synth takes you from rank 1 to 50.

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First off, the main idea of the post is that crafting SP should be static based on your rank vs. the synth's rank, so that it's more in line with DoW/M.

Second, people are free to express ideas that they think will allow the game to be better. FFXIV is in a constant state of flux right now. Pretty much anything and everything can be changed, so it's better to have a wide range of ideas to pick from in order to build the best possible game.

I know they're planning on making crafting a lot easier, at least from 1-20. I crafted a lot when I first started, but that burned me out quick, so I stopped. Might pick it up again once they make some changes. I'd like a raise in SP as well, but, honestly, who doesn't? Crafting is pretty tedious at the moment. If they revamped the system so that it was actually fun, I probably wouldn't mind doing it hours on end to gain a single rank.

However, with this:

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Originally Posted by Reika

They need to raise crafting sp a bit anyways, since we cant link or share in DoH. So if it does change, they should give the max SP instead of the average.

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I think you're on to something. Not with the SP, but with linking DoH leves. Wonder why we can't? I think it would be pretty awesome to levelink with crafting.

I think if they allowed that it would go a long way in making crafting and gathering more fun.

Hell, adding a behest-like option to crafting and gathering would be awesome as well, and not too big of a stretch, especially with companies. I'm sure some NPC or another could shout from some of the camps that they have a shortage of some sort of item (DoH) or material (DoL) that they're willing to pay crafters/gatherers to make or find.

Thats one of the things. DoW/M can share SP from their leves, and share sp from monsters killed in the field to rank up. DoL can share leves but it is kind of awkward to do so, as you dont get SP from someone else's gathering, so theres really no point in it except to get someone else some leve completion gil. DoH/L are all by themselves. Solo SP all the way, which sucks a lot. I hope their future crafting updates involves some teamwork aspects to rank up faster, like crafting groups or something.

Ah and i made a suggestion in a thread about crafting behests at least. DoL behests would be nice too. It was on the line of camp behests. Crafters could repair the equipment of npc's that are defending the camp against an encroaching monster horde. Like After each wave of enemies, the soldiers would wait for repairs , "My sword broke during that encounter, fix it for me you crafter" or something much cooler. and you would fix it, gain sp, and he would go back to battle when the next wave comes. More NPC's for more people, and the longer they could keep fighting the more diverse your crafters are (For a set amount of time). Also repair defensive structures like walls, doors, etc. But now that I think about it, there are various landmarks in the field that are totally unoccupied that could be used for this. like the towers around La Noscea, Or the mini-fortreses in Coerthas. They would make excellent crafter-behest areas. And since we are coming upon Grand Companies and the threat of the Empire, the behests could be against the empire instead of monsters too.