Are tanks/heals broken? Or am I just unlucky?

Maybe I am unlucky, but I seem to frequently be having to summon yellow carby and tank AND heal for most groups.

In all but two of the groups I have been in, the tanks and heals have died, both on bosses and minor trash.

I'm wondering if there's something wrong here, are the tanks underpowered, or are healers? I'm really quite confused, because I shouldn't be tanking, healing, AND DPSing in every dungeon. Now and then with a newbie heal/tank or someone who was bad? Yes, I'd understand that.

..But every one of them?

I'm only lvl 28, does this get better later on? Is it only because tanks/heals have no clue what they're doing this early into the game?

I'm losing the ability to tank/heal/dps at the same time the higher level I get, so I'm dreading higher levels.

EDIT:
Okay people clearly aren't comprehending what I mean by me tanking/healing.
I don't just decide "well gee I'm gonna try to tank/heal", I only do one or the other if the tank/heal dies; if both die, I become both. I don't just go into a dungeon with the mindset that I'm an offtank/heal?? Seriously guys come on.

because you, as an Arcanist, are just that awesome?? i havent the foggiest and have never been out tanked by a yellow carby unless of course the idiot pulls before i do..

I tank as a marauder and every party i have been in so far as only praised me thus.

Lol, I love being a dps/heal/tank at the same time as ACN! Its awesome! Though, its usually in all dps dungeon parties...

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Originally Posted by Amyas

Lol, I love being a dps/healer/tank at the same time! Its awesome! Though, its usually in all dps dungeon parties...

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Lmfao well I don't mind it, it was fun for a while when tank and heal died, but I'm noticing as I creep toward lvl 30 my ability to sustain both carby, me, and other dps is uh.. decreasing, rapidly. : P So I doubt I'll be able to soon. I fear for my repair bill.

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Originally Posted by Ketsufuma

because you, as an Arcanist, are just that awesome?? i havent the foggiest and have never been out tanked by a yellow carby unless of course the idiot pulls before i do..

I tank as a marauder and every party i have been in so far as only praised me thus.

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Eesh. This makes me think I just keep getting bad groups then.

I can't talk about tanks 1st hand, but healing isn't broken on CNJ. Might just be bad players trying to jump up the DF queue by going as a class they aren't experienced/good with. Being an all in 1 class is an odd experience though (ran Tam Tara as a ARN with 2 other ARN and a THM).

I must admit that as im going through the story I felt like a juggernaut until dungeons like BrayFlox where I got my ass handed to me so much. Even with the newest gear, food, etc. It seems that for a tank to tank a dungeon best it better if he is near or at the cap for the dungeon and not just barly matching the level requirements. Other wise GL on beating it.

Tanking is pretty easy pre lvl 35. When u hit Sunken temple of Quarn, it gets a bit tricky since they input mechanics that completely baffled me my first time. Everyone should understand there is a learning curve since everyone is new. Ask for tips and learn it and it gets fairly easier.

I been playing MMO's a long time so tanking is simple and what i like doing. But i understand where new tanks can struggle, just wait a few for people to get better or guide your grp if you know your way around.

remember one day i fighted ifrit. at the start, i over-agro by 2 fire II which made me be a tank , then healer died by inferno , then i become a healer by using ARN healing spell ,until ifrit down

very interesting, lol

I'm not sure about the state of healing, because I'm a little out of practice, but it seems to me that there's more of a delay when using actions in this game. Because of this, heals need to be started a bit earlier than one might think. I could see how this would be troublesome to new or less experienced healers. Most of the tanks I've gotten have struggled with keeping aggro, which could also cause difficulties for healers. When I pull aggro from heals, it's hard to resist the urge to heal myself after being hit, and it takes a bit of trust that the tank will be able to pull the mob(s) off of me if I just stop casting for a while. I could see how healers might struggle to get used to these nuances when they first start grouping.

this is a gear score game if your gear sucks you suck. some times in 8 man partys with two WHM's heals wont keeps up with the damage there taking if the tanks are too soft.
you have no choice but to have atleast AF or colbalt armor when you hit level cap other wise you going to be soft. you have no chioce but to keep your gear up to date by level.

i wish SE didnt take this route should of stayed with some kinda skill to win vs needing a certain amount of DEF or DPS to win a fight, as a DD or mage your basicly 1-2 shots on a boss then your dead, on lv50 ifrit you either have a SMN or BLM to LB the nails or your dead, unless you guys are gimped you'll cut it close.

As a GLD/PLD tank in my opinion, tanks don't seem to have enough enmity/threat, I didn't have a hard time holding aggro but it certainly wasn't easy doing it until I got to 40PLD and got the Shield Oath stance that increases enmity. Now I have no problem at all.

Also they really need to fix provoke, it's pretty much useless, it hardly ever pulls aggro.

You are probably just unlucky.

But I don't think that taking over the roles of others is going to do them (or you) any good in the long run. Take a bit of time to give them hints and you'll see that most of the time things will improve. I've done multiple dungeon runs where the tank didn't pull enough, and every time simply asking them (politely, mind you) the situation greatly improved and we got through the dungeon just fine.

Also, as I healer I can tell you that when the tank fails to do its job it suddenly gets a lot harder. I've been through runs where I never had to heal anyone but the tank. But if the tank doesn't pull enough you suddenly find yourself healing everyone including yourself (because the mobs don't like characters who use healing spells all the time), and I can promise you that you will die in the long run if that happens.

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Originally Posted by indira

i wish SE didnt take this route should of stayed with some kinda skill to win vs needing a certain amount of DEF or DPS to win a fight, as a DD or mage your basicly 1-2 shots on a boss then your dead, on lv50 ifrit you either have a SMN or BLM to LB the nails or your dead, unless you guys are gimped you'll cut it close.

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It needs to be a balance between gear level and skill in my opinion. I enjoy the difficulty level but it is distressing to meet so many people in DF that don't prepare or understand basic tactics like get out of the red spots (don't stand in the fire! ;p) CC when possible etc.

First of all, tell us your build, did you go for int or mind? mind increase healing power while int increase your dps. If you go full int of course your heal will suck. Furthermore, arc and scholar heal suck,period. You need to control your pet to heal and you cant do so if you are already casting your heal. at lv 30, white mage can heal for 400 hp a tick while full mind arc heal only 200 hp. I have been running with CNJ and their heal is fine even with just white (ques) gear. Tank are fine, provoke is instant mob grab but since people want easy mode that why they only use it once in a fight. A good tank will always spam it when it go off cooldown and NO dps could ever take aggro from you.

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Originally Posted by Alice_89th

You are probably just unlucky.

But I don't think that taking over the roles of others is going to do them (or you) any good in the long run.
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I don't "Take over" roles. I summon my tanking carby when both tank and heal fail to stay alive so I don't suffer damages. Or one or the other, if tank dies, carby tanks. If heal dies, I heal. Why should I and the remaining party need to wipe just because the tank and heal dunno what they're doing/can't keep up?

I've noticed suggesting tanks "not stand in the fire" results in angry tanks, too... As well as healers who just spam heal. If you tell them how to do it, in my experience, I get backlash and kicked (luckily this game doesn't yet have a kick function). They get defensive.

So... I'm kinda unsure what to do when these situations rise other than take over where I can when they die.

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Originally Posted by Sterob

First of all, tell us your build, did you go for int or mind? mind increase healing power while int increase your dps. If you go full int of course your heal will suck. Furthermore, arc and scholar heal suck,period. You need to control your pet to heal and you cant do so if you are already casting your heal. at lv 30, white mage can heal for 400 hp a tick while full mind arc heal only 200 hp. I have been running with CNJ and their heal is fine even with just white (ques) gear. Tank are fine, provoke is instant mob grab but since people want easy mode that why they only use it once in a fight. A good tank will always spam it when it go off cooldown and NO dps could ever take aggro from you.

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Not me that's having the issue, though, I meant the other party members that constantly die. ):
I intend to go SMN.

I find when ACN tries to take on all of those roles it is detrimental to the team as a whole. ACN not focusing in one target, causes too much aggro, more than the tank/tank carby can handle, waking THM/BLM sleeps, and in general causing chaos. It is like a system where each person needs to contribute equally.

That being said, If your Tank/Healer additional DPS aren't taking on their load however, any amount of additional roles ACN (or anyone tries to take on) is not going to be successful. Before you start the dungeon work on a strategy with your team, find out what page everyone is on, it takes maybe a minute or two. Then you can decide who is most comfortable leading, will there be sleeping, should you pop your DoT's prior to sleeps and so forth, so you know where you stand as ACN and where you will be focusing. There is not just one strategy per se, there is a multitude of strategy and it is the beauty of the teamwork with those who are willing to communicate and have a good time.

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Originally Posted by Reibees

In all but two of the groups I have been in, the tanks and heals have died, both on bosses and minor trash.

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If anyone dies on trash you should leave the group immediately. That should never happen, ever, period, no exceptions.

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Originally Posted by Reibees

I'm wondering if there's something wrong here, are the tanks underpowered, or are healers? I'm really quite confused, because I shouldn't be tanking, healing, AND DPSing in every dungeon. Now and then with a newbie heal/tank or someone who was bad? Yes, I'd understand that.

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It's not the classes. Up until the level 32+ dungeons you can do them one-handed while eating pizza rolls, watching cat videos on Youtube and chatting on Teamspeak. You don't even need to pay attention. You've just been getting unlucky and getting assigned mentally disabled party members. Only thing you can do is buy a rabbit's foot or join a free company.

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Originally Posted by mermade

I find when ACN tries to take on all of those roles it is detrimental to the team as a whole.
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I'm not just going and randomly tanking/healing when they're still alive. I don't just send off carby mid-tank pull and agro the other half.

Idk why people are reading it as that.

I don't touch healing spells or yellow carby -UNTIL- one or the other die. In which case I take over the role (or both if both die). Because why should the whole party die for one member's mistakes.
I've done fine so far; I ended up having carby tank most dungeon bosses with little issue.. soloing them, sometimes, too. So saying it isn't going to be successful is a bit strange to say, because I can manage it just fine when the tank/heal keel over. Unless you mean people who randomly try to tank with carby or heal when the tank/heal are still up - then yes, there'd certainly be a myriad of issues following.

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Originally Posted by Reibees

Unless you mean people who randomly try to tank with carby or heal when the tank/heal are still up - then yes, there'd certainly be a myriad of issues following.

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Mhm, speaking in general when that happens and how it can cause issues.

You are likely unlucky in most situations. I'd say 75% of my dungeon experiences are pretty rough, a lot of players are still learning, and communication at the beginning of the dungeon is important for the success of it to see what everyone's goals are and how you can strategize. The earlier dungeons there is a chance you may make it alive, if everyone dies. I had a situation as THM where the healer and Tank died when the other DPS d/c'd and was able to stay alive managing mobs with sleeps, but thats not always possible. In higher difficulty instances it might be harder to manage. Hopefully at that point you are with people who have gained more skill with experience!

Gl & Hf ^-^

If anything i would have to say healing might be a bit weak. I tank every dungeon i do and have no problems holding aggro. However, in most of my groups i get dangerously close to dying(even against trash mobs) and have to throw down defensive cooldowns and use a potion just to prolong my life. At the end of the day though, nothing is stoppign anyone from putting a mob to sleep to take away some of the damage. I would rather have to think about fights before engaging them than make dungeons brainless like they are wow(excluding raid content of course)