lol SMN

I was looking forward to SMN, till i started seeing what it does. Man, what a waste. Totally dissapointed. Its a DoT class with a pet. Instead of a pet class that focus' on the pets damage. So in my opinion its basically in the same category as SMN from XI. Pet comes last.

On top of that the very few pet options available, that look stupid.

Time to retire this class.

It does feel a little strange, semantically, that SMN focuses more on spells the SMN casts, like Bio and Miasma, than summoning. You know, what with it being called summoner, and having always been about summoning and using the summon's abilities rather than having any of it's own.

well, you're qiuck to grasp thins. SMN bein a dotter+pet it's common knowledge since months

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

well, you're qiuck to grasp thins. SMN bein a dotter+pet it's common knowledge since months

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Yeah i heard all that stuff, but reading about it and finally getting your hands on it to see for yourself is different.

Feels bad man.

This SMN solo'd the last boss in haukke manor after the rest of us died while it was about 20% hp left. It was amazing.

I find summoner to be very enjoyable. Specially when tanking. Sorry it's not your cup of tea. I di agree that one feels deattached of the pet when dding. So far my favorite task as smn is tanking! Taking care of my pet while doting and dding is really fun.

I felt the same way with Monk.

Monk: 5% damage
PGL: 10% crit, 20 seconds of +20% damage. (MNKs can't use Archer abilities anymore)

So I basically leveled Pugilist to 30 so I could lose 1 CD, -10% less crit, take 10% more damage, and gain a few more skills that only really seem useful in PVP which isn't out yet.

Admittedly I should have researched the class a bit more before leveling it.. But the info was kinda hard to come by at the time.

The base class is Arcanist. I was always under the impression that the Job simply modified and specialized the base class somewhat. THM > BLM didn't offer a ton of significant change, but it did increase the focus on DPS mana drain.

Summoner, in the same vein, seems to be Arcanist with a little more focus on a pet...? Not facetious - my experience w/ SMN is a bit limited. Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by EmeraldSerenade

I felt the same way with Monk.

Monk: 5% damage
PGL: 10% crit, 20 seconds of +20% damage. (MNKs can't use Archer abilities anymore)

So I basically leveled Pugilist to 30 so I could lose 1 CD, -10% less crit, take 10% more damage, and gain a few more skills that only really seem useful in PVP which isn't out yet.

Admittedly I should have researched the class a bit more before leveling it.. But the info was kinda hard to come by at the time.

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It's always a tradeoff with classes and jobs. Sometimes classes are more optimal. Sometimes job are more optimal, though when you only have 1-2 job abilities, the job may not seem worth the tradeoff until higher levels, depending on the job/class. Fortunately you can change between them pretty freely and easily.

SMN is fine...following the lore about not being able to summon the full beings because of the aether it would take blah blah blah...It should be just like it is...a Class that has "pets" that have skills (that you can controll...sheesh what more do you want) and have skills yourself you can cast for sustain, healing, DPS, DOT...The class is fine.

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Originally Posted by Ryujin_Ketu

SMN is fine...following the lore about not being able to summon the full beings because of the aether it would take blah blah blah...It should be just like it is...a Class that has "pets" that have skills (that you can controll...sheesh what more do you want) and have skills yourself you can cast for sustain, healing, DPS, DOT...The class is fine.

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Then the lore sucks.

Out of all the final fantasy games, summoner in this game is the one that screams the most, this is not the summoner you are looking for.

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Originally Posted by atomicdeath

Then the lore sucks.

Out of all the final fantasy games, summoner in this game is the one that screams the most, this is not the summoner you are looking for.

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I don't understand what you are expecting from the class...what do you actually want?

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Originally Posted by Ryujin_Ketu

I don't understand what you are expecting from the class...what do you actually want?

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A summoner, that focus' on pet damage instead of DoT's, that can summon more than 3 pets that dont look like elementals.

He wants summoner like ff10 for example. Where you summon, and the summon is "the thing". Not just some measly support for the rest of your abilities. He wants the summoner to be ALL ABOUT PETS. Up to a point where no pets=no skills. And I dont disagree. I think a "summoner" should be all about summoning, not DoTs.

When I finally got in game and started wandering around, I thought the Summoner's summons were actually minions the first few times I saw them. I couldn't believe that Ifrit, Garuda, and Titan were so absolutely underwhelming in terms of visuals, scale, and ability.

I mean, Ifrit looks like a parrot, hovering lifelessly over it's caster's shoulder.

Arcanist is basically Warlock from WoW which I enjoyed a lot.

Arcanist/SMN + Pet + Chocobo = great fun

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Originally Posted by atomicdeath

A summoner, that focus' on pet damage instead of DoT's, that can summon more than 3 pets that dont look like elementals.

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The pet outdamages the player...and you can control what the pet casts/does for the ability. You can also set when and how it reacts to battle...the Summoner pets don't look like elementals...They look like mini versions of the actual Eikons...If you don't like the class, play another or at least make a post with something constructive with more in-depth information as to what you actually want.

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Originally Posted by Ryujin_Ketu

The pet outdamages the player...and you can control what the pet casts/does for the ability. You can also set when and how it reacts to battle...the Summoner pets don't look like elementals...They look like mini versions of the actual Eikons...If you don't like the class, play another or at least make a post with something constructive with more in-depth information as to what you actually want.

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We shall never see eye to eye sir.

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Originally Posted by Ryujin_Ketu

The pet outdamages the player...and you can control what the pet casts/does for the ability. You can also set when and how it reacts to battle...the Summoner pets don't look like elementals...They look like mini versions of the actual Eikons...If you don't like the class, play another or at least make a post with something constructive with more in-depth information as to what you actually want.

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The pet does maybe 30% of the players damage.

That said, I love the job.

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Originally Posted by Kevee

The pet does maybe 30% of the players damage.

That said, I love the job.

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Touche...I guess with the dots that adds some nice extra damage for the player...but Carby and the summons still wreck :p

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Originally Posted by atomicdeath

I was looking forward to SMN, till i started seeing what it does. Man, what a waste. Totally dissapointed. Its a DoT class with a pet. Instead of a pet class that focus' on the pets damage. So in my opinion its basically in the same category as SMN from XI. Pet comes last.

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One of my Mains in XI is SMN and I'm pretty damn sure my Avatars don't come last - Though guessing by what you were trying to say you last played XI in 2003.

I am kinda disappointed to Hear it sounds like arcanist with different pets. I will still level up and will form my on opinion on the job, but I was hoping that it would play off the summon. While the SMN would use abilities to enhance the summoned Eggi. Looking at the 5 SMN spells I have mixed feelings. The AoE and the enhance to the DoTs is nice, but would rather all the abilities be Eggi focused.

Arcanist main damage should be from the class. SMN main damage should be from the Eggi, Dots should have a de-buff component added while potency reduced to compensate for the de-buff. The Eggi itself should output say 60~65% of the SMN damage. That's my take. Yoshi could have done alot with this class. And maybe with feedback from us could be made better since testing was limited to internal testers and looking at how abilities had changed on other classes from beta to launch Yoshi and the Devs are listening.

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Originally Posted by Ryujin_Ketu

The pet outdamages the player...and you can control what the pet casts/does for the ability.

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I'm pretty much bad off if my pet goes down, which in some fights is almost always, as i have to move too much to get the mob dotted and pet healed. Then if i try to resummon, i get aggro. I just wish it was more responsive, and not tied to my casts and gcd. :P So many times i'll command it to do something, and it won't or will take a while. Don't really mind it's not a summoner like in older FF's, and like how it's a pet class.

I hate it though when during dungeons there needs to be burst damage, and all i can really do is dot and try to get the pet to do some.

The thing is, they wanted XIV ARR to pretty much mimic the 'standard' style MMO and in most MMOs everyone is generally universalized in damage - Having the pets more FF like would throw that out the window. Even pet classes in other MMOs are generally weak or overly powerful, very rarely is a pet class perfectly balanced. ARR's SMN was a product of being too careful and different from the sake of it - XI's SMN as of now is extremely powerful and if they took that SMN design and tweaked it for ARR's play it would have been one of the most amazing pet classes to ever grace an MMO.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

One of my Mains in XI is SMN and I'm pretty damn sure my Avatars don't come last - Though guessing by what you were trying to say you last played XI in 2003.

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I guess i meant it like SMN was used as a healer. But essentially for the most part the pet was not the reason for a party invite, unless you were needed for the BCNM's or SMN burns in korrokola tunnel (sp), or diablos refresh. Basic leveling parties was anyone else > DD SMN.

The summons we got now, if they were more like XI where they way outdamaged the summoner himself, would be superior.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

The thing is, they wanted XIV ARR to pretty much mimic the 'standard' style MMO and in most MMOs everyone is generally universalized in damage - Having the pets more FF like would throw that out the window. Even pet classes in other MMOs are generally weak or overly powerful, very rarely is a pet class perfectly balanced. ARR's SMN was a product of being too careful and different from the sake of it - XI's SMN as of now is extremely powerful and if they took that SMN design and tweaked it for ARR's play it would have been one of the most amazing pet classes to ever grace an MMO.

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Erm..."you're useful only when Astral Flow is up so you can summon Alexander and perfect Defense the raid" is not amazing, nor powerful relatively speaking.

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Originally Posted by atomicdeath

I was looking forward to SMN, till i started seeing what it does. Man, what a waste. Totally dissapointed. Its a DoT class with a pet. Instead of a pet class that focus' on the pets damage. So in my opinion its basically in the same category as SMN from XI. Pet comes last.

On top of that the very few pet options available, that look stupid.

Time to retire this class.

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Except that SMN is a million times more useful than it was in XI. This thread is bad and you should feel bad.

Pets can tank and can be cured by anybody, unlike XI where no pet can hold enmity worth a damn and can't be healed by anybody except the owner and even then only once a minute and only with certain pets.

I'll oversimplify things like you, for XI: "It's a crap class with a pet." ACN/SMN/SCH are actually powerful in this game. Did you ever feel powerful playing SMN in XI? No, you didn't, because you were rarely wanted, and when you were, it was either 1) as a backup healer and nothing else, or 2) an event that was too hard so we all played "throw pets at it til it dies."

Just because *you* don't like it, doesn't mean it's bad and should be "retired."

Oh yeah, and guess what? On SMN In XI, I can easily outdamage my pet with melee staff damage. At least that doesn't happen here and all your damage is spells and abilities, both on you and the pet.

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I am kinda disappointed to Hear it sounds like arcanist with different pets.

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Every Job in the game "sounds like the class with different stuff."

You are oversimplifying. Every job has all the abilities of the class it is based upon. The point of the jobs is to focus the class into a particular role- not to radically change the class.

What they should have done was make this class a puppet master or something else.

Like dude said above, that the pet (cant really consider it a summon) only does 30% of the overall damage, is pretty much a slap in the face to all the summoners in FF history.

Then make a decent summoner later when they figured out how to do it.

Right now its in, because they wanted to entice people back to the game and they knew people wanted summoners so they had to throw something together.

Maybe I am out of the loop a bit. Do the 5 Skills/Traits you get being a SMN not apply to your summons at all? I have not gotten to that point yet but the base classes have received their own set of Skills/Traits and then had 5 additional Skills/Traits added assigned by being the Job to focus the class into a specific niche. You got these through questing. The downside being you could not take as many traits from other Classes like you would be able to if you stayed on the Class. Did this change? Or are they handling the ARC class differently because it has two aspects (SMN and SCH) assigned to it?

This is the problem with the class > job, armory system. The jobs are just extensions of the class, meaning that a job usually doesn't change how a class is played.

Jobs only get 5 abilities apart from their class. Meaning that as a dps, a SMN will be doing much of the same thing as a ACN. This is the same for every job, MNK does the same thing as PUG, DRG same as LNC, BRD same as ARC, and BLM same as THM.

Its much harder to give each job an unique identity when the job is only separated from the class by 5 skills.

Don't like summoner should of went black mage instead. >_>

Hopefully they will make summoner more interesting to play in the future.

Summoner is better now than it was back then.

It must have been really dire, then.

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Originally Posted by YumieYumiki

Hopefully they will make summoner more interesting to play in the future.

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You really used Resurrection on a 2013 topic