Setting Cure on PLD

Is there any point? It costs 133 MP and only cure like 200 hp, would we be better of setting something else? And Whats the point of Paladin if it doesn't get its own cure.

I see Cure as a very optional luxury throughout the GLD/PLD lifespan. Unlike some MMOs where some tanks spam heals on themselves as part of their threat generation, Paladin here is very much a sword-and-board pure melee. Ironically, Warrior/Marauder is designed as the self healing tank now.

Personally I've found next to no use for Cure. If you're low on health solo and spam cure on yourself you'll often end up taking more damage over the 2 second cast than Cure actually heals. The only use I found was soloing single mobs far above my level, as Cure Spam would eventually outheal a mob's DPS and heal to full after using 90% of my mana. The only time you can really use Cure in groups is during periods where you arent being attacked (or possibly weaving it in during slow boss cast times) but it always felt the time/mana is better spent on flash or damage.

Obviously in most other games Paladin = Tank/Healer hybrid. Here I guess they just went for noble protector with a shield.

I have Cure set, almost exclusively for soloing. Sometimes i'll be out doing some quests or a fate and I get in over my head a bit. Convalescence + Second Wind + Cure a few times and i'm good to go. I also sometimes throw a few heals on my chocobo if he's taking aoe damage during fates and I don't want him to die.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BlueMage

A lot of people say "PLD uses CNJ abilities for soloing." but aren't jobs supposed to be for partying and CLASSES (GLA, MRD, LNC, etc can equip abilities from CNJ or any class) for soloing? And PLD doesn't even get any kind of buff to it's healing, so its about as effective as a GLA or MRD or LNC with Cure equipped.

---

Correct. I don't actually have Cure set when i'm in PLD. I have it set when i'm out and about on GLD. For some reason I read the tread as GLD and not PLD. :P

A lot of people say "PLD uses CNJ abilities for soloing." but aren't jobs supposed to be for partying and CLASSES (GLA, MRD, LNC, etc can equip abilities from CNJ or any class) for soloing? And PLD doesn't even get any kind of buff to it's healing, so its about as effective as a GLA or MRD or LNC with Cure equipped.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sapphidia

Obviously in most other games Paladin = Tank/Healer hybrid. Here I guess they just went for noble protector with a shield.

---

Let's also keep in mind that in JP the job is called ナイト, or Knight.

I am actually a big fan of having cure on my hotbar but I half agree with the statement that it is a luxury/supplementary but it is still very useful. I think the main problem is people look Cure by itself and go "Man 200 health... that's tiny." and ignore it. But if you look at Cure taking into account all of GLD/PLD's skills you'll soon see that peasily 200hp can go a long way.

The reason it works is mitigation.

Lets say for some reason you have something hitting you for 500 damage. That 200 hp doesn't seem worth it. But lets say you pop up Shield Oath. Well that 500 damage becomes 400 damage. And your 200 hp cure is still 200 hp. Pop Rampart and that 500 damage becomes 300 damage. Pop Sentinel and that 500 damage is all the way down to 200 damage. Pop both Sentinel and Rampart... well you see where this is going.

With PLD it is not about making your cures big it is about making your enemy's damage small. I've always compared PLD and WAR as a sports car and a family sedan. And in this case if 'heals' were gas, WAR is a bit of a gas guzzler while PLD is much more fuel efficient. So that 200hp really goes a long way if you use it wisely.

If you're taking enough damage to pop one or two of your cooldowns you might as well make the most of the mitigation and toss in a heal or two (if you already have more than enough hate that is.) Also sometimes that small heal is just enough to put you back in your healer's 'safe zone' so where they would take the time to heal you twice they get a free round to play with. I really like how balanced it is, with mitigation its strong enough to be effective but you can't abuse it because you don't want to have 0 MP and then need to flash.

PLD's cure is very much about the finesse of tanking. Sometimes victory is not won by grand efforts but the culmination of very well executed small ones.

I keep it on my bar for a couple of reasons.. there isn't much else to go with and it's definitely useful when your party has just eaten an AOE and your WHM needs a couple of seconds to get everyone back up. Spamming self cure in this situation helps.

I don't really understand the argument that "you take as much/more damage in the time to cast than you get from the heal."

Whether you're casting cure or not, you're taking that damage anyway. So your choice becomes on between generating enmity and/or doing damage, using cool downs, or healing yourself during that window of time.

I can understand an argument being made that the damage / enmity is more valuable than the heal and I would typically agree. But, me being only level 21, I've been in situations a few times where tossing a cure or two on myself has made me much more comfortable and less concerned with dying.

In a situation where you have no enmity concern, either don't have cool downs available or are saving them for a harder hitting pull, and are taking spike damage that heal becomes the most attractive action. This situation has come up for me personally on a few trash pulls of 3 enemies.

Personally so far I have not felt the need to take up a spot for cure over a defensive cool down as GLD, but I'm only lvl 25. Time will tell as content progresses however. But none of the instances so far have made me feel the need to use it. Even 3+ trash mob pull and a decent healer and the cool downs are sufficient. I did get all the defensive cool downs from PUG, LNC, and MRD so that I could maximize my mitigation. As a GLD I find I'd rather build the aggro and trust my healer to do their jobs :)

I mainly use it for soloing, since in party I hardly get the chance/need to use cure - except a boss fight with phase shift etc where I may throw cure on myself. What I did find enjoyable was throwing a heal while soloing / exploring on lower levels if I notice it :3

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NarcissitInChains

Personally so far I have not felt the need to take up a spot for cure over a defensive cool down as GLD, but I'm only lvl 25. Time will tell as content progresses however. But none of the instances so far have made me feel the need to use it. Even 3+ trash mob pull and a decent healer and the cool downs are sufficient. I did get all the defensive cool downs from PUG, LNC, and MRD so that I could maximize my mitigation. As a GLD I find I'd rather build the aggro and trust my healer to do their jobs :)

---

As GLD you have an awesome selection of cross class skills so I can easily see how one could happily ignore Cure forever.

As a PLD your cross class skills are god awful to the point where in a group situation there's no point slotting anything except Bloodbath and Foresight... so you may as well also stick cure on your bar because... well just because.

Do GLD/PLD start using more MP? I've checked PLD abilities and none seem to use MP. Why give us a whole MP bar when we only use it on the seldom used Flash? I feel like with a competent healer, there's no point in Curing myself. I can generate more threat through the combo.

No, he's right, we have little MP. That said, even Flash won't consume all of it alone.

I've personally grown attached to the idea of supplementing capped stats with MND.

DEX is overgrown by block rate.
STR is overgrown by shield protection, spirits within, and shield oath.

VIT is the only contender, providing a little more health for slightly more survivability.

But more survivability than a PLD equipped for Cure? I think not. It is not difficult to gear for cure, simply using meldable gear alone is going to provide upwards of 80 MND, if you take it seriously. Criticals and convalescence can be rewarding, you just need to realize IT IS situational, it is not designed for more than 1 or 2 quick cures at any given moment. I like having shield bash handy for interruptions, I prefer to always have used convalescence, hinting at the real situational effort of this troupe.

Now you're going to call me out here. ~20 slots of material is a long way from a fully VIT capped PLD, and you would be correct. But you're wrong, when I say, that a missing 30 VIT (the skill points) is going to make a large difference, not when I have 80 points of MND OR VIT at any given moment.

I am putting all of my skill points into MND. To put it simply, 1 cure can make the difference in battle. For VIT to make a difference, 1 Cure already has.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rajah

Now you're going to call me out here. ~20 slots of material is a long way from a fully VIT capped PLD, and you would be correct. But you're wrong, when I say, that a missing 30 VIT (the skill points) is going to make a large difference, not when I have 80 points of MND OR VIT at any given moment.

I am putting all of my skill points into MND. To put it simply, 1 cure can make the difference in battle. For VIT to make a difference, 1 Cure already has.

---

I'm sorry to seem rude, but that is such a silly argument. VIT has such a higher return than MND does for a Paladin. That being said, those 30 points probably won't make or break you but I'd rather have an extra ~500 health than the extra MND. Putting those 30 points into MND is very foolish. It's on a par with casters using those points for STR.

this is random lol but the heavy armor looks so dumb, i got rid of it right away. haha, ok have a nice day.

I thought the PLD only received cross class skills from Marauder and Conjurer?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dreamslave

I thought the PLD only received cross class skills from Marauder and Conjurer?

---

Pretty much, from what I've seen at least.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Karti

Pretty much, from what I've seen at least.

---

Yea, thats what I thought. But some of these people are saying they get pugilist and lancer cooldowns....what the heck.

Cure saved my life more then once especially with convalesce up. Work with it a bit especially om bosses when can afford to do nothing for half thw battle and still hold hate.

For me, cure has been there to give me peace of mind. In the event a healer dies and the boss is almost dead, I can pop a potion and use cure to get me up to last far along enough to DPS the boss down.

It's not like we have a ton of great options to begin with. I find it useful for soloing, so it stays on my hotbar.

Paired up with Convalescence, it can be a nice addition to a healer's cure after taking a lot of damage. It might not do a lot, but if you have acquired a solid grasp on enmity (keeping enmity is a higher priority to healing oneself) and you take a big hit, it can be helpful. It's definitely not something I go to, and I very rarely use it when solo, but it has a niche use that can just make things a little easier on the healer. Especially when said healer is low on MP and can't use an Ether yet (due to recast time).

So what would be better.... Cure or Bloodbath? I would assume cure?!?

Is it really a paladin if you cant cure yourself? What happened to the cure from 1.0 that would cure a party member and you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dreamslave

Yea, thats what I thought. But some of these people are saying they get pugilist and lancer cooldowns....what the heck.

---

Eh, maybe they're talking about when they are Gladiators. I used to (and still miss it) have Haymaker on my hotbar. But now all I can add is Cure, Protect, and Raise. :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rajah

No, he's right, we have little MP. That said, even Flash won't consume all of it alone.

I've personally grown attached to the idea of supplementing capped stats with MND.

DEX is overgrown by block rate.
STR is overgrown by shield protection, spirits within, and shield oath.

VIT is the only contender, providing a little more health for slightly more survivability.

But more survivability than a PLD equipped for Cure? I think not. It is not difficult to gear for cure, simply using meldable gear alone is going to provide upwards of 80 MND, if you take it seriously. Criticals and convalescence can be rewarding, you just need to realize IT IS situational, it is not designed for more than 1 or 2 quick cures at any given moment. I like having shield bash handy for interruptions, I prefer to always have used convalescence, hinting at the real situational effort of this troupe.

---

I was thinking about this a while ago and i wondered if adding additional det is the better way to go and if there's some way to tell how much more hp you'd get per point of det than mnd at lv50. If it's the same, then adding the two stats in places where i can spare wouldn't be a bad thing especially when nearing stat caps.

and bloodbath but I always keep a hi-potion hot-keyed incase my healer gets lazy and doesn't notice my health dropped below 50%.

Feels like cure is there mostly for Flavor reasons they anything else. Sure it occasionally helps but Pld gets cure mostly because thats the expectation. Personally I would like to see Pld get a self cure buff attacted to a trait or one/both the Oaths.

Well here's another cure question:

If i had 30 det would i get the same amount of self heals as 30mind? Right now my cures in limsa are between 114 and 118 or 119 but hit 120 with +1 det but i assume maybe there's something else at play or possibly i didn't do enough healing to see a 120 come out of the quick base healing test i just did. Now if there were some sort of auto crit skill that applied to magic that gld/pld can use then that'd be great.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nama

Feels like cure is there mostly for Flavor reasons they anything else. Sure it occasionally helps but Pld gets cure mostly because thats the expectation. Personally I would like to see Pld get a self cure buff attacted to a trait or one/both the Oaths.

---

I miss Holy Succor (targeted heal for ~1kHP, if you cast it on another player, the PLD themselves recovered 1/2 the HP they just healed said player for). I am expecting and hoping that we will get this back at some future level once the cap is raised. Preferably Lv55, but as long as it is at some point. Anything that is at least a better heal than Cure is (200-250HP is a little meh, though it has saved me vs Garuda (story version) when my healer was low on MP; I was miles ahead in hate, so I spammed a good few cures to ease the stress whilst the last few %HP were take down).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fyreus

Well here's another cure question:

If i had 30 det would i get the same amount of self heals as 30mind? Right now my cures in limsa are between 114 and 118 or 119 but hit 120 with +1 det but i assume maybe there's something else at play or possibly i didn't do enough healing to see a 120 come out of the quick base healing test i just did. Now if there were some sort of auto crit skill that applied to magic that gld/pld can use then that'd be great.

---

The increase from Determination is much, much smaller than the increase from the same amount of Mind, and this is very similar when it comes to damage dealt. In short: Weapon damage (physical or magical as appropriate) is stronger per point than STR (for physical) or MND (for healing) per point, which itself is stronger than Determination per point.

What the exact ratios would be, I can't say, but it is Weapon Magic Damage > Mind > Determination for healing (as it is for physical damage with appropriate changes included).

A Gladiator/Paladin's Cure can crit, and I'm sure that Crit hit rate affects this chance, so there is always that possibility. It's hardly reliable, though. Although, on Gladiator, you can set Critical hit rate buffs like Straight Shot and Internal Release, which I think could make Cure crit more often. You'd have to play around with the idea and see. It's purely speculation on my part at the moment.

Cure is very useful in my opinion. It's saved me many times, and I've even been able to finish out a boss fight when my healer died; Sunken Temple 1st boss, healer was killed by Doom with boss at 1/2 health and I self-cured my way through it.

You're never at a loss for MP, shallow though our pool is, because you don't ever need to spam Flash. The MP just sits there, so trade it for some HP from time to time. It's not a lot, but every bit counts and 2 cures from you is roughly 1 Physic or 2/3 a CNJ/WHM Cure.

I honestly miss Holy Succor, but as people already said, you use cure with a bunch of -dmg% abilities and conv to refill your hp up.

I honestly wish Spirits within worked like inner beast though...

Why does nobody mention Stoneskin?

Stoneskin is better than Cure. At 10% of your max HP, Stoneskin should be blocking 450-550 damage. It's more MP efficient than Cure especially at higher health levels and it has no MND dependency. Stoneskin casts just as fast as Cure in this game with zero recast. This isn't FFXI or 1.23.

In situations where you are actually in danger of dying, a WHM will always cast Cure or Regen. You shouldn't need to worry about your Stoneskin overlapping with theirs. Stoneskin stacks with SCH shields too.

Cure is a nice little thing to have on hand, as someone else said stoneskin may be better for self survivability, but then that's not as useful if you have a WHM giving graniteskin. (kro: I'm not clear does WHM stoneskin and PLD stoneskin stack?)

A baddie example of cure being useful though, we were on the last boss of Stone Vigil, and things got a little out of hand (a dps stood in front of the dragon and got one shot fairly early on and I didn't have opportunity to rez him) so the fight was taking longer than it should. My pocket tank saw that I was a bit overwhelmed with the long fight and aoe dmg, threw me a couple heals so that I could get back on track.

So cure not so much for keeping yourself alive since you may get interrupted anyways, but for easing a bad situation.

That's another thing with Stoneskin, it's more a before the fight thing, because its cast time is pretty long, I find as WHM I get interrupted if something's hitting me while I use it.