Monster Combat Behaviour

I am a little bit surprised that so little people have voiced their opinions about monster combat mechanics, I can't say they are terrible as of now, but I think a lot of improvement is needed. Here are my three biggest concerns:-

1) All mobs have ranged attack and that really grinds my gears. It's very annoying and unrealistic when a squirrel spits or hurls a seed at me after I taunt it.

2) Mobs are reluctant to move out of their spawn territory? I Taunt a Maidenbug from outside of its little spawn enclave and it just wouldn't chase after me. I did something similar to a bat a long while ago and it would just run back and forth between hitting me and returning to its spawn point, regening in the process (I don't know if this has been fixed now).

3) Most mobs I've encountered so far only had one skill move which they use every 10 seconds or so, and I must say it's getting duller and duller as I level.

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Originally Posted by ambrosia

I am a little bit surprised that so little people have voiced their opinions about monster combat mechanics, I can't say they are terrible as of now, but I think a lot of improvement is needed. Here are my three biggest concerns:-

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People don't complain about that probably because rank-and-file monster combat behavioir is actually quite a lot more varied and advanced than the market's average (and probably one of the best if not the best of the market overall). 99% of the mobs have quite varied attacks and skills, reactive skills, and more advanced features than normal rank and file mobs in most if not all other MMORPGs.
This not to mention the absolutely lovely feature that bigger monsters have, that allows them to fight with all their limbs (and tail) without necessarily turning in place.

The real problem is in the lack of monster variety, not in the way they behave, which is better than what I've seen more or less anywhere else.

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3) Most mobs I've encountered so far only had one skill move which they use every 10 seconds or so, and I must say it's getting duller and duller as I level.

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Actually most mobs have at least two skill (different in effect, Area of effect and directional vector) that they use not on a timer, but when they reach the required TP. They can be in fact be stopped or slowed down by draining their TP. Many mobs also have reactive moves (funguar's poison cloud if they're hit when they're in a certain stance, or raptors' tail swipe if someone stands behind them) or original combat patterns (like the teleport/lighnings shown by gnats for instance).

As far as monster behaviour goes, I would like to see two things:

A) Better pathing algorithms, to make crowd-control more streamlined and easier (simpler to control and predict monster movement). Right now the monster's pathing makes... no sense most of the time.

B) Monster group behaviour. Something like the behaviour of Shikaree sisters in XI but more fleshed out and for more encounters.

I assume the closer you get to 50 you will see more variety so maybe things will get better in due time. But as I type I am killing Maidenbugs that would only use Spoil on me time after time, Djiggas only do Mortal Mist. Looking back at the past 20 odd levels, I only see puks do backflips, moles dig, etc. So 1-2 skill moves per monster race is the norm from my observation.

For those of you who've played XI, I'd say the average mob had 3-4 skills. Sorry for making that dreaded comparison again but XI was just that good.

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Originally Posted by ambrosia

I am a little bit surprised that so little people have voiced their opinions about monster combat mechanics, I can't say they are terrible as of now, but I think a lot of improvement is needed. Here are my three biggest concerns:-

1) All mobs have ranged attack and that really grinds my gears. It's very annoying and unrealistic when a squirrel spits or hurls a seed at me after I taunt it.

2) Mobs are reluctant to move out of their spawn territory? I Taunt a Maidenbug from outside of its little spawn enclave and it just wouldn't chase after me. I did something similar to a bat a long while ago and it would just run back and forth between hitting me and returning to its spawn point, regening in the process (I don't know if this has been fixed now).

3) Most mobs I've encountered so far only had one skill move which they use every 10 seconds or so, and I must say it's getting duller and duller as I level.

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1) every mob have a ranged attack to counter kiting strategy. Related to point 2

2)every mob have a kind of territory, where they return when they move too far away. This against kiting too, and to permit a succesful flee. If a mob bounce to you and spawning zone just come closer, that bug is already solved.

3)as abriael said, mobs have more tp moves after first levels. Vary from family to family however (crabs of every level don't have any tp move)

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Originally Posted by ambrosia

I assume the closer you get to 50 you will see more variety so maybe things will get better in due time. But as I type I am killing Maidenbugs that would only use Spoil on me time after time, Djiggas only do Mortal Mist. Looking back at the past 20 odd levels, I only see puks do backflips, moles dig, etc. So 1-2 skill moves per monster race is the norm from my observation.

For those of you who've played XI, I'd say the average mob had 3-4 skills. Sorry for making that dreaded comparison again but XI was just that good.

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I played XI. A lot, and while it had more monster variety (after several years of development, since the initial vriety was very low), rank and file mob behavioir was actually less varied and complex than that of FFXIV. Quite a lot less.

It's normal that low rank mobs have a less complex behavioir (in average, as there are plenty exceptions), and it was like that even in FFXI.

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

1) every mob have a ranged attack to counter kiting strategy. Related to point 2

2)every mob have a kind of territory, where they return when they move too far away. This against kiting too, and to permit a succesful flee. If a mob bounce to you and spawning zone just come closer, that bug is already solved.

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1) I realized kiting kiting no longer works with this game on day one, but there's no good rationale for abolishing it in the first place, it was a good challenge and a skillful aspect of the game. OK, even if they are going to abolish it, they should've done better rather than give everything the ability to hurl projectiles.

The initial development team kept making these poor thought-out solutions to tweak things that didn't matter, in the end they either bring out more problems or lead to poor gameplay. My two cents anyway.

2) That bouncing thing is fixed I guess, but the territory problem is still apparent. I taunted a maidenbug from like 5 yalms away and it's standing still staring me in the face because I'm standing outside its cave.

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Originally Posted by ambrosia

1) I realized kiting kiting no longer works with this game on day one, but there's no good rationale for abolishing it in the first place, it was a good challenge and a skillful aspect of the game. OK, even if they are going to abolish it, they should've done better rather than give everything the ability to hurl projectiles.

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It made balancing and designing content hard.

As long as SE doesn't have insanely boring AI (Monster will use X-move every 10% life, or Mob will do X at low health)

All i'm saying is, i hope monsters actions are used a bit more randomly, but not completely. Some kind of good AI system for tough fights. Yea, newb monsters will be predictable, but for the love of God SE, make the NM fights a real challenge.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

It made balancing and designing content hard.

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Add a strong regen, mix in other aggroing mobs nearby, faster mob walking speed? When we are talking about kiting only a small number of high-level mobs were concerned. They had a host of solutions, instead they chose to give everything ranged attack and that affect gaming experience across all levels.

Kiting allowed players to rest during a fight that they should never have been resting in. So SE implemented a way to prevent it to a degree. It makes fights more challenging because you can't tell your paladin to run away so your white mages can rest their MP to heal him.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

Kiting allowed players to rest during a fight that they should never have been resting in. So SE implemented a way to prevent it to a degree. It makes fights more challenging because you can't tell your paladin to run away so your white mages can rest their MP to heal him.

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Don't mages just disengage now to regain MP? And it's less challenging now if anything else because mobs will lose interest in chasing you easily I thought.

Kiting was actually the most challenging aspect of XI if you asked me, doing things with 3 people that usually required 18.

In sum, the ranged attack thing or the variety of mob skills aren't enough to make this game bad, they are just things that I think need to be ironed out. Thanks guys for all your input.

What's wrong with kiting? o.O

EDIT: I mean kiting just to grind, not to kill NM, that's something totally different.

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Originally Posted by ambrosia

Add a strong regen, mix in other aggroing mobs nearby, faster mob walking speed? When we are talking about kiting only a small number of high-level mobs were concerned. They had a host of solutions, instead they chose to give everything ranged attack and that affect gaming experience across all levels.

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Whatever, really. They are going to tune down the power of the attacks. It's as good as anything. If you just want to run away you can, but if you want to kite the mob will keep pounding on you until you die.

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Originally Posted by ambrosia

1) I realized kiting kiting no longer works with this game on day one, but there's no good rationale for abolishing it in the first place

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Besides the fact that it looks absolutely retarded?

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Besides the fact that it looks absolutely retarded?

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Kiting with a ranged class can be quite fun

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Originally Posted by Alcide

Kiting with a ranged class can be quite fun

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And still look absolutely retarded. "hey, look at that archer doing the crayfish dance!" :D