Creating a Compelling World

First off I'd just like to say that any of these changes wouldn't really be expected to happen for a while given how low on the development schedule they probably are. Even so, I still think it's important enough to talk about now, as a big part of a good MMO is a compelling world. A lot of the ideas presented are incredibly vague and are really meant more to spur change than strictly outline how it should happen. Also I know there's at least one other thread about this topic but I'd like this to be a bit more constructive. That and please forgive me for the length. D:

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Anyways, I don't believe I'm the only one right now who thinks that XIV's world is a bit... lacking. After the initial feeling of awe it became pretty apparent how empty and partially developed the world feels. The cities feel quiet and empty, especially in the case of Ul'dah which consists of seemingly nothing but massive, flat hallways and the few shops and guilds. Even the more lively cities like Limsa are only relatively so.

Moving out of the cities and into the world you're faced with seemingly endless expanses of marginally different landscapes. You'd think that each Aetheryte Node would have something unique about it, perhaps something that inspired its name. Unfortunately that's not the case and you're, most of the time, faced with the same environments. There are small pockets of unique areas or objects, the mysterious machines near Blue Fog, the strange hole north of Treespeak, a tree that pulsates light near Hyrstmill (only just the other day discovered that one), and others, but never anything substantial. Anything remotely compelling is left unexplored and, generally, isolated from the world and the things around it. There's a distinct lack of mystery and exploration at large.

Related to this is the incomplete nature of the game's Lore. Despite things that are said you never really feel that there's any story to the world, any history to it. Even the stuff that is in place isn't always accurately displayed. I mean it's mentioned at one point that the Garleans sacked Ala Mhigo 15 years ago and then 30 years ago at another. The small fragments of story that are there are so loosely connected that it's hardly even worth mentioning at all.

This was just a Tech demo, but it looked amazing and it's rather upsetting XIV's world feels less compelling than the short 40 sec clip. It doesn't as far as I'm concerned anyways.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgtZvn5c4e4

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Of course, I don't intend to just gripe about things and actually want to make a few suggestions. I know a lot of this may be restricted by development time or technical hang-ups and I don't expect any or all of them to show up. Rather, I just want to get some ideas out there.

To start, there needs to be more movement, more life in the game. NPCs going about their lives, moving from point A to B, perhaps at random times of the day. To see them shopping, selling wares, or working. Perhaps kids or animals running around, something to make the cities feel like actual cities. In the same vein, it'd also be nice to perhaps see something akin to traveling merchants, NPCs that you actually see out in the world and moving around, showing that there's actually business and trade being done. Really, just a general increase in NPC numbers and actions. This could also be extended to larger non-player driven events. What I mean by that is kind of an expansion of how airships are now. Limsa is supposedly a large port city yet it's somewhat strange that no boats EVER dock or sail from there, aside from the ferry. There are no signs of trade, no people checking cargo or loading/unloading it. I know it's a lot to ask to have so much stuff going on but even small things would do wonders for making the world feel alive. XI managed to do this too with the single Elvaan running around Ronfaure and the boy perpetually running deliveries lol. The game would also benefit from a bit more "ambiance," so to speak. Essentially wildlife, time/weather dependent events, and more fitting enemy placement. Perhaps allowing us to see the dragons that plague Ishgard or seeing sea life appear alongside the ferry (along with the water being improved on the ferry....). I don't know if there are any as of now, aside from NMs, but perhaps specific types of monsters that show up only at night or during certain weathers. They might even display unique behavior depending on the environmental conditions, like only aggroing at night or something like that (ladybugs worked that way in XI I think though aggroing during the day). There could also definitely be better placement of monsters so there's more than a single type dominating a whole area. Something to make it feel like an environment and not just a designated "spawn zone."

Though, increased NPC activity isn't the only thing. It'd be nice if we as players could also interact with the environment to a greater extent. Allowing us to sit in chairs at tables and perhaps do stuff while sitting there such as eat or drink. Perhaps even going so far as to create larger inn or tavern areas where people can gather and meet with others. Think like the opening to the game where there are adventurers all over the place, mingling and doing their own things but all in a single gathering place. The current adventurer's guilds just feel incredibly confined and unappealing really.

Really though, one of the biggest changes I'd like to see would be making the world more unique. Adding in landmarks or, at the very least, making the Aetheryte Nodes actually unique. Doing something with all the springs in the towns or the random wells and openings you see strewn across the land. Speaking of towns, perhaps also making them useful. Hubs with their own aetherytes and generally places where people would actually want to go. In general more unique areas and more interesting landmarks and locales. Expanding the cities to encompass residential areas to an extent and more "fluff" areas so the cities don't all seem like places designed solely for adventurers.

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These are only the few things I can think of right now. I know a lot of them are either impractical or, generally, not worth the effort, but there needs to be an expansion and filling of the world. It has no real depth, life, or charm to it like Vana'diel did in XI. It definitely can look amazing and beautiful, especially Limsa during certain times of day, but that doesn't make it any less devoid of life. Anyways, I ask that you all please support changes like this if you feel the same, as well as making your own suggestions as to what can be done! Credit goes to several of my ls mates too for some of these ideas.

Finally, I leave you all with this. Hopefully it can make up for my ineloquence and show a bit of what I think XIV is missing. It's not entirely comparable considering it includes a lot of XI's expansions, but I personally think you'd be hard pressed to make something similar given XIV's current state. FFXI was a truly beautiful game. :x

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iesY1XssACM

I agree with everything you said :) After watching that last video all the memories of playing FFXI came back and i remember how alive Vanadiel was, it truly was a living breathing world.

100% agree with everything you've said. FFXIV was a huge disappointment to me in terms of the scenery. All of the areas are way too big and repetitive. Everywhere I've gone everything just seems so dead. It amazes me how a game that comes out in this day and age isn't even a small fraction as good as FFXI's scenery was when it came out. I honestly watched those scenery videos before XIV was release and became excited to see what XIV had in store. I'm not even sure disappointment is a big enough word to describe how I feel about the landscape and scenery of FFXIV. All of this graphic potential and nothing was done with it.


EDIT: I urge people to reply to this thread. It is very important they know how we feel about the general scenery in this game. Some may feel it's negligible but scenery is a very important part of an MMO. Even more important than some of the things they are changing now because it stimulates and enhances the experience. I don't even think many realize how much it would improve the game for everyone. It is something they can and should add and improve on, and it seems we only get the attention needed when a thread has a lot of replies.

Yes, sometimes in cutscrenes we see npc moving around and traffic on the streets, but then when the quest is over it's the same dead-ish world again. I do hope lifelyness will be added.

Very well said, and thanks for reminding me about that video.

The amount of detail in Vanadiel was astounding

Great post!

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Originally Posted by Kazimir

100% agree with everything you've said. FFXIV was a huge disappointment to me in terms of the scenery. All of the areas are way too big and repetitive. Everywhere I've gone everything just seems so dead. It amazes me how a game that comes out in this day and age isn't even a small fraction as good as FFXI's scenery was when it came out. I honestly watched those scenery videos before XIV was release and became excited to see what XIV had in store. I'm not even sure disappointment is a big enough word to describe how I feel about the landscape and scenery of FFXIV. All of this graphic potential and nothing was done with it.


EDIT: I urge people to reply to this thread. It is very important they know how we feel about the general scenery in this game. Some may feel it's negligible but scenery is a very important part of an MMO. Even more important than some of the things they are changing now because it stimulates and enhances the experience. I don't even think many realize how much it would improve the game for everyone. It is something they can and should add and improve on, and it seems we only get the attention needed when a thread has a lot of replies.

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Totally agree. The current areas are great ideas in general, but they really need lots of small effects to flesh them out. Also some of the buildings in the areas should at least lead to different places, or maybe even mini dungeons. There are alot of wells/sewer grates scattered across La Noscea, that seem like they would be potential entrances to a lower cave area underground. There is also the case of the random caves around La Noscea that are just completely empty aside from one or two enemies.

I'm not sure if alot of these points or buildings in the area are just spots that are crucial to certain story missions, and maybe certain areas dont seem as lively as they should because of lack of beast tribe activity (camp fires, monuments, vehicles, etc) but something really needs to be done. I'm sure some of this will be remedied once they drastically increase the world enemy population, which I guess is going to be in patch within the very near future, but adding different small effects and perhaps even more plant life or stone structures would also help.

Wasnt there something in one of Yoshida's letters, talking about making more separate zone lines in order to work on this? Personally, I think the extremely large zone size could be at fault here.

I completely agree with everything in this thread! This is my biggest problem with FFXIV.

The ferry ride between Thanalan and Limsa could use some sprucing up too to be honest. Aside from the intense lack of landmarks or things to see, the water is horrendously unconvincing. There's no illusion of movement and it's really disorienting. There could also stand to be a bit more to do or perhaps even a shop on board for fishing like in XI.

That all kind of ties into making the zones more unique. Really there needs to be something that differentiates the various sections of a region. Western Thanalan, Southern Thanalan, etc. all need to be a bit more unique. There are some landmarks you'll see only in those areas but nothing to really make you think "I'm in this part of Thanalan."

I think it'd also be nice to have a few larger camps here and there with more than just the facilities NPC and a single guard. That kinda fits in with the suggestion of making towns Aetheryte points though.

Key phrase I guess is, "More variety!"

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Their biggest problem is they don't apply what little lore they have. In gridania, there is this invisible threat called wood sin and then the somewhat abusive protectors called elementals. Considering how terrified the entire city was on them you'd think the elementals themselves would seem threatening. They arent. They are tiny little fairy things, just ordinary mobs. Eventually they become easily killable. The story makes them sound like all powerful gods and you'd think with that strange agreement they would be passive and un-attack-able in gridania. No threat. Then the woodsin. I don't see any wild lings or people who look afflicted, at all. In gridania. They talk about them all the time but I dont see any crazy people except the poachers down in the cellars. No threat again. The garleans "oh my they are attacking and patrolling the area!". What Garleans. I don't see any outside, I dont see any gates being pounded on. Just in the cutscenes. No threat. The forest is apparently deadly. I don't see any vines comming out to attack me. Its just annoyingly labyrinth like. Maybe some of the monsters would be the "threat" but Uldah has those and I don't see the pugilist guild getting their undies in a twist about the terrifying desert. The forest, is about as deadly as my grandmother during her nap time. Once again, No threat. This made the storyline hard to believe and the entire town seem like a large group of cultists. It was uncomfortable going through for a storyline, at least for me. But its my fault for choosing that one. Point being. I don't see caravans being raided in Uldah, or pirates in the open seas attack the ferry in limsa (if that's what those stories entail I haven't gone through those). Point being, not only are the stories hard to get into when they barely apply to the world around them, but the areas themselves just seem like areas instead of places. Atleast in Sarutabaruta the towers were applicable later on through the stories. The beast men were there and they were the threat. In the past there were monsters attacking since it was a WAR. If there is this threat, where is it?. There arent even any potholes or burnt down trees or resemblance of garleans being there. That is all. /end angry rant.

I agree, the story elements are so disconnected from the game at large. The life and story you see in the cutscenes (even then it can be a bit hard to follow) ends when the cutscene does. All the lore that's built up doesn't seem to apply during normal gameplay. As you mentioned, for the forest being so sacred and the constant threat of upsetting the wood, we seem to be able to quite freely run through it and do whatever we please. Kill anything, do anything.

The same goes too for the apparent beastmen threat. Unless the beastmen are a secret society they're the most non-existent immediate threat I've ever seen. The world's danger isn't very apparent and the lore is so... "other," that it doesn't feel like it's even really part of the game.

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Originally Posted by Focant

I agree, the story elements are so disconnected from the game at large. The life and story you see in the cutscenes (even then it can be a bit hard to follow) ends when the cutscene does. All the lore that's built up doesn't seem to apply during normal gameplay. As you mentioned, for the forest being so sacred and the constant threat of upsetting the wood, we seem to be able to quite freely run through it and do whatever we please. Kill anything, do anything.

The same goes too for the apparent beastmen threat. Unless the beastmen are a secret society they're the most non-existent immediate threat I've ever seen. The world's danger isn't very apparent and the lore is so... "other," that it doesn't feel like it's even really part of the game.

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They are kind of homeless to. Sorta meandering about in place we cant really see them. Secret, and homeless. How could you Squex! Ixali Bob has a wife and 4 chicks!

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Originally Posted by Altaeiu

They are kind of homeless to. Sorta meandering about in place we cant really see them. Secret, and homeless. How could you Squex! Ixali Bob has a wife and 4 chicks!

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Honestly I didn't even know what an Ixali was until R30 Story Mission. Hell i didn't even know they existed, where as in FFXI you knew about the beastmen, they were there, you encountered them on a regular basis. IMHO i think i should have encountered at least 1 beastmen before hitting the R30 mark ^^;

When I get on the ferry, I see so many boarding in the cinematic scene but when it ends it's just me and the driver all alone on the boat usually. The airships in 11 often had passengers around which would feel more casual then an empty boat that had images of people boarding. It doesn't help how the water looks like motionless and shallow either. Only when there is a thunderstorm on the boat does it look attractive at all.

I won't say there is none in terms of environmental effects because I have walked the entire world and seen some stuff out of the ordinary at least. None of it can be interacted with but you will notice it goes on when looking closely.

Some minor stuff I happen to notice around the world are things like:

Mining carts traveling across the tracks and railways on the roof of Nanawa Mines.
Small frogs hopping around the rocks of Mun-Tuy Cellars.
Amazing huge waterfalls in Coerthas that disappear in the foggy weather and mist.
Fast flowing grade 10 rivers, looking very realistic with small rocks in them creating water lee effects.
Beautiful lily like flowers glowing at night in the small ponds around Five Hangs or Camp Tranquil.
Climbing the hills to the top points of Central Thanalan and viewing Ul'dah while a blazing sandstorm travels across (below you and not in front of you) looks amazing with the sun setting behind.
There are a lot of shrines and stuff but nothing really moving unless a lamp flicker or incense burning.

I just want more of stuff like this that makes the world seem less motionless. The towns are feeling very stationary beside players for sure. As for lore area names I read in game somewhere about Mistbeard (Mistbeard Cove) being some famous pirate around Limsa and Nanawa (Nanawa Mines) was someone related to the miners guild who discovered minerals and such in there. The name sounds very lalafell like so I wouldn't doubt it since the miner story has so many lalafell.

Yes to more beastmen too, haven't seen enough even though they sound like there should be many of them living somewhere in the world.

Very thoughtful and well-written post. You've done a great job of distinguishing between pretty scenery -- which I think this game has -- and a world that's alive -- which Eorzea arguably lacks.

As Hotorori and others have pointed out, there are some of those little touches in FFIXV. Skeletons spawn at night around Camp Cedarwood (or at least they used to; haven't checked in a while). Some incap moves make the mobs look different -- you can break off an aldgoat's horns; you can break a coblyn's shell, you can knock off a skeleton's head, etc. And there are some areas that have neat little touches -- the bridge across an apparently bottomless canyon in Coerthas, the apparently abandoned houses in Coerthas, the glowing tree in the Black Shroud (youtube link).

So some of those touches are there. But the fact that the details are kind of limited in number contributes to the feeling that the game was rushed to release before being fully fleshed out.

Also, you mentioned beastmen tribes. They were included in Yoshi-P's letters as something that will be implemented in the future. Link 1 and link 2. So that's something that they appear to be working on.

Maybe one of the best threads I've seen thus far......
Many threads that deal with this topic... this one, however needs to be sent to the Devs as a how-to for making Eorzea real

I only disagree with one part of it....

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Originally Posted by Focant

These are only the few things I can think of right now. I know a lot of them are either impractical or, generally, not worth the effort, but there needs to be an expansion and filling of the world.

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There was nothing impractical or not worth about your suggestions... in fact, I find these things necessary for an immersing game experience

From a previous thread

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Originally Posted by Rydin

Give me...
NPC's that walk around...
Guards that do the rounds outside Ul'dah...
Chocobo carriages that traverse the roads out in the fields....
doesn't even have to be highly interactive or anything... just make them move and do stuff.... talk to each other... make one run out of the Alchemist guild screaming with his hair on fire.... Anything.. everything..

GIVE THE NPC'S SOME LIFE

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;_; we need more funny characters!

I think the game could benefit from some more effects like high grass or fogy areas or at least fog covered ground. Also there could be special quests that happen randomly, like a traveling merchant asking for protection on the road or a scout needing help returning to his camp.

But I am playing the game while I write this and one of the things that is disappointing me as I write is how lifeless the water is. I am looking over the ocean and it's just a flat surface. You think it would be easy enough to make some wave meshes to have moving through their flat plain of water to give it some motion and some animations for crashing into the rocks. That would be awesome.

Also I have to agree with the camps needing to show some reason as to why they have their name. I'm near camp Bloodshore and I think it would be easy enough to change the grass texture to a red moss or something and have that be where the name came from. Camps and other such places need a reason for their name to add to the life of the game.

Also (as something that would be cool but I doubt they would ever add to the game) I wish the seasons would change. And with it not only did the world look different but paths changed. Like in the winter the water would freeze over and give access to certain places you couldn't reach in the summer but the ice would also block off several places, so that exploring changed with the seasons. Also the way NPCs and mobs acted changed, like marmots may hibernate or certain enemies become aggressive during certain times of the year. Or NPCs harvesting and gathering crops and food for the coming winter season. And with the changing seasons they add new types of weather, because two or three types of weather per area is not very realistic but if they added more weather types (like fog, snow, large storms, blizzards etc.)as well as seasonal changes the game would have a very believable world that had a good flow and feel to it.

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Originally Posted by RemnantWolf

But I am playing the game while I write this and one of the things that is disappointing me as I write is how lifeless the water is. I am looking over the ocean and it's just a flat surface. You think it would be easy enough to make some wave meshes to have moving through their flat plain of water to give it some motion and some animations for crashing into the rocks. That would be awesome.

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This is interesting. When I see the ocean, it's definitely not flat. There are waves everywhere, and they roll up onto beaches, etc. Is it possible you're playing with lowered visual settings?

Just as an example of waves on water, in another thread, somebody posted this screenshot with waves on a smaller body of water.

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p...1302329265.jpg

Here are a couple more pictures of waves on water from the same thread:

http://i.imgur.com/uXXgP.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/rgFL8.jpg

http://www.otherworldonline.net/stuf...screens/01.jpg

http://www.otherworldonline.net/stuf...screens/04.jpg

http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/1058/marycielo.jpg

Does water look different to you? If so, it may be because of your settings, maybe?

By the way, if you folks haven't seen the screenshots thread yet, I highly suggest you check it out. Some good stuff there.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...eenshot-Thread

even on lowered visual settings the water is kind of pathetic..

that video that had FFXI scenary.....pretty much puts FFXIV to shame. excuse me but, WTF HAPPENED?! It's like Tanaka was just like "guys, don't put that much effort into it. it's a Final Fantasy game, fanboys will buy it no matter what".
Yeah. See where that got you. You got demoted.

I agree that the game world is lacking in life, and movement, and just about everything you have said.

But one thing that really bothers me is how bright the game is. I feel that a higher contrast between light and dark, and day and night would benefit the game. I can be deep underground and there will be light, coming out of nowhere. Now I don't think that the game should be so dark that you can't see, but when the only time I really notice it is night is when I look at the sky, something is wrong.

Now personally I would like to see the game get quite a bit darker, and the characters are then given lanterns, or torches to see (mages use their stave, that would be cool) that they can pull out or put away at will. Now the light should not be hindering, but enough for some atmosphere, and how cool would it be to see lanterns in the distance, campfires city lights. The contrast between light and darkness helps bring atmosphere to the world as well as adds to the beauty of the game, you did a great job with lighting with torches and campfires, now the world needs some darkness to show it off.

Things like light can only be appreciated if compared to their opposite, and we don't have much darkness.