Version 1.0 left a lot of open doors behind. Characters that we were told were important are gone, mysteries begun were never solved, and some old stories seem to have been stripped and rebuilt for A Realm Reborn. This leaves Square Enix with a few options when it comes to these instances.
If SE were to do either of the latter, we should make it easier on them by making broadly focused, clearly labeled threads and using those to come up with the questions required to close the book on that section. If Ferne drops by on a quiet day and wants to close some old chapters, he can; if there are answers coming in ARR, he can let us know; or, he can take our notes back to the Lore Lead and say, "Hey, I've got a list of things we can use to flesh out some sidequests!" I propose we just use the names of the story arcs as thread titles and SOMEWHERE in that thread (preferably the OP) keep a list of the at-present-unknown.
- Tell us to forget it happened.
- Let Ferne answer the unanswered in the forums at his leisure
- Use unfinished lore from 1.0 quests as the background for ARR sidequests
[Version 1.0] Lominsan Introduction
[Version 1.0] Path of the Twelve Arc
[Version 1.0] Alchemist Arc
Etc. Etc.
I'll continue logging all the lore we lost over at GE, starting with the easiest cases to close. Perhaps we may get some answers yet?
Tips for Threads Based on Version 1.0
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08-23-2013, 02:59 PMAnonymooseTips for Threads Based on Version 1.0
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08-23-2013, 03:08 PMNoloeTazier
Very much agree Moose. Hopefully they already have most of our unanswered questions at the top of a list somewhere, even if its just a post-it :{.
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08-23-2013, 03:19 PMNinimo_Babamo
I love Lalafell Lore ._. They are just so damn adorable.. I almost want to do some artwork.. Drawing Lalafell homes or communities on the backs of the large adamantoise from XIII... something akin to that.
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03-04-2014, 07:14 AMOrophin
Bumping this REALLY old thread (because I didn't want to start a new one) in case people missed this from Reinheart's recent Famitsu translation:
F: Will FFXIV ARR cover and reveal story that wasn’t really talked over enough in previous FFXIV?
Y: Things that aren’t inside the current FFXIV are the parts I chose to drop, so in general we won’t go deeper regarding these later on. Although, I think we should go over the story surround F'lhaminn and the scenario surrounding Niellefresne. But even if we officially chose to do so, it’ll be further out in future to release this.
So good news, maybe we'll find out who killed whom. Bad news, many loose ends are going to stay just that. -
03-04-2014, 08:24 AMAnonymooseThe bad news is more or less that some strong story arcs will be abandoned for progress and convenience, which is not to say progress and convenience are not good reasons to do so. Trimming the fat doesn't always mean only trimming the things you don't like. However, I hate loose ends and plot holes that do not serve the purpose of meaningful ambiguity. Though the bestiary project has thoroughly monopolized my attention as of late, I continue to rebuild Version 1.0s questlines and transcripts in summary form. Many answers are there to be found upon close examination.Quote:
Originally Posted by Orophin
What of those that aren't? If SE addresses it in the game, awesome, we'll add the answers to the summaries as if we knew all along and close the book. If they don't, we'll keep discussing the open ends here. Hopefully, if we ring that bell long enough, a bored dev will one day say either "So, I looked into it, and though we won't be addressing it, what was going on was X." or even "That event is no longer canon, sorry about that."
Make no mistake, though, I will take those story elements out of the trash and complete them myself if I have to. We'll just use gigantoad DNA to fill in the holes in the code, what could go wrong?
http://31.media.tumblr.com/c6eabf764...y1o10_1280.jpg
DUN DA - DUN DAAAA - DA NA NAAAA NA NA NA NAAAA
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03-04-2014, 08:56 AMEnkidoh
Well that's disappointing - I guess that means we'll never find out about things like what happened to Khrimm and Fye in the Gridania storyline sadly (or the 'secret mission' his parents were prepared to sacrifice their very lives in Gridania and to abandon their son to the elementals for). :(
So many interesting plot lines left hanging... ; ; -
03-04-2014, 09:20 AMGrayve
Disappointing. As a new player in 2.0, I regret missing out on all the lore the vets got to enjoy. There doesn't seem to be a resource that tells us about the stories that shaped the world we missed out on, just the occasional veiled hint or half nod.
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03-04-2014, 10:08 AMSolusekRo
I would have to agree. Coming from EverQuest 2's rich lore base to ffxiv is subpar. I'm finding little things here and there but nothing vast like I did with eq2. While I know they are completely different games ff has a long long history that should give ample lore, which I'm dying for.
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03-04-2014, 11:36 AMAnonymooseThe transcripts / summaries are still in spreadsheet / raw form, but I think I actually found the answers to those. Please look forward to it? ; ;Quote:
Originally Posted by Enkidoh
Gonna be a while, but I'm working on it. Solo project, atm. ><Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayve
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03-05-2014, 05:21 AMNoloeTazier
All I have to say is Warburton, Corguevais, Niellefresne. Sadly going forward for us, it's tough to just toss out things were learned in 1.0, especially when we consider things in termd of time. Those loose ends are things that happened in various years of the 6A.E. and if you say they didn't happen, then for me as someone who enjoys history and piecing things together, it simply becomes trying to rewrite history. Anyways as the Ul'dah guy, the Warburton-Corguevais storyline is just going to eat me until things are explained whether it's in-game or a Dev post.
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03-05-2014, 08:09 AMGrayveQuote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
Joy! I cannot wait! Thanks for all the time and effort! -
03-10-2014, 05:17 PMCatapultSOILERS:Quote:
Originally Posted by NoloeTazier
I'm calling it now: The white-robed Ascian is possessing the body of Minfilia's father, Warburton, who is also responsible for the murder of Niellefresne. I draw this inference from three things:
- Nielle was killed by someone wearing a white-ish robe (graphical development limitations) who appeared as disappeared without warning, as if he were using ascian skills.
- The story line brought up the subject of Warburton, including the diary of his that Minfilia/Ascilia had never parted with, mere moments before the white Ascian appeared. If that's not a plot device, my name's not Thal Icebound.
- The white-robed Ascian speaks to Minfilia with a degree of understanding that the other ascians do not seem to have, suggesting he has access to Warburton's memories.
I suspect you'll see your answers on that storyline in the months ahead. -
03-16-2014, 06:49 AMNoloeTazierMakes a lot of sense and I can see SE going this way. Only one thing though is can an Ascian take over a dead body? Warburton was said to have died by the Alchemist guild leader/doctor...of course it could always be a Sherlock Holmes (with the help of the Alchemists) kinda thing where it's just the appearance of death, but then again why would the Alchemist do this for an Ala Mhigan, there's just no justification for Warburton being THAT important, despite the need/want to speak with his dead self. Well that was a lot to say, if Warburton did die then I don't think the Ascians could take advantage of his body. After all if the Ascians could possess dead people then they could really freak Eorzea out with that trick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Catapult
http://cdn.guildwork.net/albums/imag...3d10a5ca72.jpg
As for a white robe? It's merely the same Woolen Cowl we had in game. I think it's possible the hooded figure is Warburton or at the very least his body wasn't in the coffin so Nielle was surprised, but if it was Warburton that stabbed Nielle..then why would Waburton go into hiding? He wouldn't really have a reason to. So no I believe this was an assassin hired by Lord Lolorito to kill Nielle, Nielle stole the Heartstrike Dagger from him and Lord Lolorito (atleast in 1.0) always gets his way. Course all this can be retconned away, atleast I hope it doesn't. -
03-16-2014, 08:56 AMAnonymoose
Those are all really good questions. I know Catapult and I have very different assumptions about how and why, but I got the feeling that it was Warburton, as well. Ascilia is a brave, reckless girl, but in that scene she is terrified. I toyed with the idea that it was an Ascian, and still think it could have been, but this assassin casts a shadow, which is something Ascians did not do in Verson 1.0 (and I still don't understand why they do in ARR). The only thing I can come up with for why Ascilia looks so terrified is that she just saw the guy who was supposed to resurrect her father open an empty coffin and then get stabbed by her father. Maybe he didn't come back the same man.
The Ul'dah storyline did have some focus on the lost zombification magicks of Sil'dih - at least the hope of doing it better than they did; eternal life tends to be something the rich spend a lot of money trying to attain in stories like these. Likewise, the gem from Heartstrike's hilt shatters when it hits the floor, which could indicate that the one Neille was holding is a fake. The real could have already been used on the corpse.
Do you have your own theory for the assassin's identity / why their face is avoided? -
03-16-2014, 10:36 AMCatapult
Could it be that while an Ascian casts no shadow, a person that it possesses by dark crystal still can? That would let us cross that issue off the list (and make our Lominsan impersonator all the more interesting).
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03-16-2014, 03:57 PMNoloeTazier
Well Travenchet our original wild-goose-chase was our original and only shadowless person and Ferne told us that he was an Ascian. So was this the true form of that Ascian or was it a possessed Elezen? Many of the Ascians we see (end of the storyline) are very Hyur in stature. Maybe the human nature of the Hyur allows them to be more likely to be possessed, weak wills? But of course there's no real separation between the races as all the races possess these traits.
As for the assassin's identity and my theory, it's not really a theory more so just 2 guesses. It's either Warburton or the reason we don't see his face is because it's simply an assassin that is unimportant and was just there fulfilling the contract from Lord Lolorito. I forgot to add in my earlier post that an Ascian power wouldn't need to have come into play as the doors of the crypt were wide open when Mumapu left. As for the assassin being Warburton, yeah it would shock her...but I also think that she would have been relieved to see him alive, unless she was indeed traumatized with it all, after all he brought her to a strange city and then died and she was left all alone in a city of greed.
http://cdn.guildwork.net/albums/imag...3d119d5e14.jpg
The dagger used to stab Nielle.
http://cdn.guildwork.net/albums/imag...3d10a5ca73.jpg
A similar dagger/sword being sold as we rode the caravan into Ul'dah (in the present 1572 6A.E.).
As you can see the assassin was left handed which I thought was unique as most of the game and NPCs that we saw in game and continue to see are right handed. Sadly watching the Ul'dah CS' I couldn't tell if Warburton was left handed. Also when you're inside that little instance before the parade happenings, you can talk to Warburton and Ascilia. Warburton asks if you know of any transportation as he's suppose to meet someone somewhere. Which is a bit odd to me as he came in to Ul'dah then needed to leave again, but to where? Silver Bazaar, Gold Bazaar, Little Ala Mhigo? As far as I know Little Ala Mhigo hadn't been established at the time as there hadn't been a lot of Ala Mhigan refugees yet. Yet now in 2.0 we know from Minfilia that her father was a spy and had valuable information on the Garleans. But Corguevais with knowledge from Ascilia said there was an even greater threat to Ul'dah...again Corguevais, the man with the same "mission" as Warburton. Bah it really racks my brain. Anyways back to the assassin, I still think Lord Lolorito was ultimately behind it. As with the Class quests from 1.0 (they contained LORE I loved it) Greinfarr was said to have believed Lolorito had had Nielle assassinated for stealing his Heartstrike. Funny thing is though Nielle's brother didn't seem to think Nielle's death was because of foul play or maybe people in Ul'dah are just use to it. But if I had to say which things I feel the strongest about it's this: Lord Lolorito had Nielle assassinated and Nielle was in shock because Warburton's body was not in the coffin and HIGHLY likely someone elses was perhaps it was Corguevais. I hope SE does answer many of these questions for me soon, though I'm sure I'm the only one questioning it all lol.
And yeah Moose, the Alacran stole the Sultana's Crown and the item given to them was (said) the item the Sil'dih Sultan used to create his zombie army. Who is behind the Alacran? Lord Lolorito. Yet supposedly the Ascian had the Alacran steal the item..which just doesn't seem right to me. Lord Lolorito was (atleast in 1.0) a very calculating man who would know what his underlings are doing and would only be doing them at his own behest...but of course Papasha? appears and chases the Alacran and I believe the Crown is recovered, but it's not said if the item was. Now why would Lord Lolorito want an item used to create zombies? Well that's just another theory all together~ -
03-16-2014, 05:42 PMAnonymooseIt's hard to tell if it's a hint or just duplicated resources. The Key, for instance, looks just like the horn used in Ul'dah to break the spell over the Goobbue and enrage the Coblyns. However, it's also the same horn a (seemingly) normal dock-worker Miqo'te blows to tell the ship to set sail. It even zooms right in on her doing it as Y'shtola looks on, yet seems completely inconsequential and a duplicated visual resource.Quote:
Originally Posted by NoloeTazier
He specifically mentions "a nearby hamlet," and the story makes mention that the Gold/Silver Bazaars had become refugee camps overflowing with Ala Mhigans even in 1562. Coming from a recent trip to Ala Mhigo, himself, Warburton may have been meeting resistance contacts there, perhaps?Quote:
Originally Posted by NoloeTazier
Thancred supposed that it was to win the war with the Garleans, but if you can bring people back from the dead, that's a service you can charge for, and if you have the market cornered...Quote:
Originally Posted by NoloeTazier
Why do we think there was another body in the coffin as opposed to it just being empty? And why Corguevais' body?
As far as I could see, he was an Imperial spy gathering intelligence on Ul'dah and he'd simply assumed that Warburton, am Imperial double agent, was doing the same work he was. I'd thought there was something to be said for Ascians in Ascilia's warnings of "something worse," but Thancred already knows what Ascians are - Y'shtola's part of his group and she mentions them by name in Limsa Lominsa during the same investigation period. What they didn't know in 1562 was that Primals were about to be summoned - but the Imperials knew this. When he escapes, Corguevais says that he would have learned of the danger facing Ul'dah sooner if they didn't kill Warburton. Now, Corguevais had just taken possession of Warburton's effects as part of his funeral, and Warburton's Journal, as we learned in 2.1, was stuffed with Imperial knowledge on primals. Corguevais and Ascilia could have been fleeing back to Ala Mhigo because they thought Ifrit was going to be tearing Ul'dah down in the near future.
Then, of course, there's this: A few quests later, Ifrit is a big reveal and the Ascian is an ominous foreshadow. An unreleased post-50 quest seems to imply that the beast tribes summoned their primals because they were terrified by attacks coming from the "Reaper" Ascian. Could the "Paragons" have been engaging in false flag operations? Could this have been part of a planned reveal later in the questline? It's probably been scrapped by now, anyway, lol.
Huh... nice catch! Alright, let's talk conspiracy for a moment. My original theory was that Warburton was the assassin - but I've been working on an alternate; I like to have a few. Let's go back to Ascians - maybe the Ascians couldn't possess a corpse. Maybe they didn't need to.Quote:
Originally Posted by NoloeTazier
Thancred realizes that Neille means to resurrect Warburton and says to meet him at the Ossuary. When you get there, Thancred mentions that he's been waiting there for the Thaumaturges to unseal the magick wards that keep the Ossuary locked - yet somehow they've already been broken. The door is wide open not 50 yalms away - and at the bottom of the stairs is Neille, dying. We see an Echo that reveals just before you arrived to speak with Thancred, Neille's assassin ran him through. Not only does the assassin make the kill with his left hand, the assassin is wearing another blade on his left hip as NPCs normally do. It's visible for but a moment as he turns around.
Now, I'm sure there are tons of Hyurs who prefer that dagger. However, there was one in particular that we shouldn't forget was close by:
Perhaps Thancred's possession wasn't a new idea for A Realm Reborn. I bet Ascian magicks could break open the THM's seals.
But then... where was Warburton? Taken to prevent his resurrection and spouting of primal talk?
Of course, we can't overlook the most likely scenario of all, that drilling over this information since 2010 (tainted by open ends, half truths, and the story of A Realm Reborn) has driven me right off the path of reasonable ideas, lol. -
03-16-2014, 08:38 PMNoloeTazier
Ok now that's just really freaky...you have to time a pause perfectly to see this and yes it does match Thancred's choice of weapon but it's so odd because in the cutscene you don't see this until this split second frame. It's clearly on his left side (Thancred keeps his there) but in the screenshot I posted, there's clearly nothing. No belt to even hold a dagger up, so maybe this is a clipping issue and only in this split second the character's wardrobe under it can be seen? If it is I can see the story tellers checking out the older version of the story and giving us what we have now with Lahabrea taking over Thancred...which we are told happens when Thancred despairs in losing Louisoix. So maybe originally Thancred was going to betray everyone then the changes happened and the new story tellers realized Thancred was popular with the ladies so it was 'best' to make him betray everyone only by being taken over cause he was sad cause Louisoix was/is gone...man really reaching here but that's a nice little find, you have good eyes for seeing that in the split second it's shown lol.
As for thinking it's another body in the coffin and not just empty, it's because of Nielle's shock. If he opened it and it was empty I believe the reaction would have been confusing not a "this cannot be" as he stares into a blank coffin. The reason I say Corguevais is a possibility is because Nielle knew what he looked like and Corguevais was part of that storyline so I don't see it as someone random. The Lalafell twins said they "took care of him." So what would be more shocking: an empty coffin or one with Corguevais in it. But of course the "it's impossible" line to me means it was someone highly unexpected and even Corguevais may not have brought out that kind of response as Nielle could probably care less if he was gone/dead I'm sure. I really don't know but yeah where would Warburton or his corpse be then? -
03-16-2014, 09:22 PMAnonymooseThis is exactly what I was thinking. Sometimes, it seems like one texture is designed to be pasted right over another. For instance, load up Dark Matter Golem over at FFXIVMODELS in a fresh tab. Normal golem - normal golem - nor-POP! New texture. I think this assassin's outfit could easily have been laid over basic Thancred to create a temporary disguise and, whoops, his dagger clipped through the cloak. Or someone forgot to disable it for that section of recording. Or someone was like, "Let's put it there for one second and see if anyone ever notices." Hells if I know.Quote:
Originally Posted by NoloeTazier
And that's exactly what I'd have said, lol. It's a good answer, and just as convincing evidence as any. Now, on one hand, we could consider his state of mind. We're told that he's full of guilt, and he's clearly anxious. Perhaps he was thinking, "I'm just going to open this, and use the dagger, and then everything is going to be okay, again. There won't be a death on my hands. This girl won't be an orphan. I won't have personally destroyed the one chance we have at learning what danger threatens Ul'dah. All I have to do i-EMPTY? NO. NO, THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE." On the other hand, though, you're absolutely right; you'd expect more of a "Huh? That's weird..." than a "HOW COULD THIS BE!?" Back on the other hand, maybe he just knows that once the Ossuary has a funeral and seals a coffin and locks it in a THM-warded crypt, you can be pretty confident he's going to stay in there. Thanalan's got enough zombies.Quote:
Originally Posted by NoloeTazier
</shrug> We've solved a bunch, but we've got a ways to go. ^^