Posting in the Lore thread because...
I have a question about the dragoon AF. Why does it have spurs?
But while I'm asking, is there any particular lore surrounding the AF armor besides it just looking cool? We know the lore behind the Relic weapons only somewhat but the armor is a mystery.
WAR Helmets look like Behemoth horns. Is there any significance?
Is there lore for the AF gear?
Job AF armor Lore
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05-29-2013, 05:05 AMHiirNoivlJob AF armor Lore
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05-29-2013, 05:41 AMAnonymoose
I would imagine it's related to the jump ability. If you spend a lot of time in the air while waving a spear around, you either learn to be good at acrobatics or accept that your life expectancy is radically reduced. Once you get good at the martial art of it, having blades and spurs on the feet that are flying around only seems natural.
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05-29-2013, 05:45 AMHiirNoivlI only know spurs in reference to "riding things". But I guess if a Dragoon were like a fighting cockrooster then I guess it can be thought of as weapons too...Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
lol Dragonriders of Eorzea hehehe. Just had a vision. Hopefully we'll get us some AF lore tidbits with this line.
*sigh* I never seem to be able to attract a lore post... Maybe I should use a better lure. :( -
05-29-2013, 05:47 AMAnonymooseD'aw. There's totally lore behind it, it's just generally focused on WHO'S it was and not WHAT it is. I'll do some digging anyway :PQuote:
Originally Posted by HiirNoivl
The riding is always a possibility. Some dragoons do, indeed, tame their prey in the end... but I imagine it'd take a lot more than a spur to get through the scales. -
05-29-2013, 11:10 AMNoloeTazier
I'd say a big reason why it's "spikey" is if a dragon like Nidhogg were to eat a Dragoon, at least the armor would damage the dragon/wym's insides. Then again they might use the spikes as toothpicks, dragons are notoriously hygienic.
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05-29-2013, 01:32 PMNadienKirisameDragoons are from Ishgard correct? and what else used to be the biggest thing from Ishgard? Chocobos... The spurs are for chocobo riding as all the dragoons are from that area and would probably use the chocobo to get to where the dragon is before leaping into the fray!!Quote:
Originally Posted by HiirNoivl
The blades and spikes on the armor can also be taken as the whole body of the dragoon is a weapon to be used in killing...
The cat is amused =^.^= -
05-29-2013, 02:03 PMYrusamaDragonriders of Hydaelyn! *Sends a Runner to Fort Hold with a message saying the Dragonriders will defend Eorzea from Thread as long as there is proper tithe.*Quote:
Originally Posted by HiirNoivl
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05-29-2013, 02:10 PMYrusamaThis will be the third or fourth time I've linked their historical origin. Dragoons were cavalry that also wielded guns (sometimes lances) with bayonets. Put Nael van Darnus (with his gunhalberd) or a Musketeer on a chocobo and you'd have a more accurate Dragoon than anything currently playable.Quote:
Originally Posted by NadienKirisame
That being said, Square-Enix as a whole has made references to Dragoons riding dragons since FF2. Most notably, Drakengard (also named Drag-On Dragoon in Japanese) focuses all of its gameplay on switching between ground and dragon-mounted combat, and the characters even Jump to their dragons, and deal slight damage when they Jump back down. The difference being they can stay riding their dragon and even guide its flight and attacks, though the Dragon's involvement is entirely voluntary. -
05-29-2013, 02:10 PMSkiesTo further expand on your point. The Ishgardian Dragoons are actually their cavalry, the 'Azure Dragoon' is who we know as the DRG job. If you did pay attention their units in Coerthas were called dragoons.Quote:
Originally Posted by NadienKirisame
The original Azure Dragoon WAS a dragoon, and his armor if I remember correctly does not have a mythical origin before him, it was simply his armor and that is it's mythical origin. So he was a rider, makes sense he uses armor like that of a rider.
Also whereas the large spikes on the back of the Dragoon armor are definitely due to Kain's original design having wing-like spikes in the back, one could also identify those as flight aids as well as what what you said, you have no idea how much a few guiding fins can help in flight.
The only other AF armors I remember the lore clearly are the White Mage outfit:
(it was the vestments used in old times by the white mages, specially fit for their arts. The exception is the body piece. The body piece is Oha-Sok)
And the Paladin outfit:
(much more mundane, it is armor exclusively made for the Paladins, the Ul'Dahn royal guard. Every paladin has a set made for them and finding it in secluded regions is a test of skill. Case in point, yours is kind of... Stolen/Not for you, because your addition to the Paladins was a little bit unorthodox, but nontheless correct. Hell, the assassin in part of that quest is wearing PLD AF body piece) -
05-29-2013, 02:28 PMNadienKirisameYes but we are talking about the dragoons in FFXIV :P Not saying you are wrong or anything however I do not think the dragoons of Ishgard would ever use a dragon for anything not even as a mount as Ishgard has always been at war with the dragons and does anything and everything to kill them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yrusama
It is more likely as I eluded to and Skies pointed out... The Ishgard cavalry is in fact call the dragoons...
The cat is amused =^.^= -
05-29-2013, 02:30 PMYrusamaBAM!Quote:
Originally Posted by Skies
http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy...sidiaModel.png
http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy...2-KainPose.png
As we can see, Cecil Harvey looks a bit more like the FFXIV DRG than even Kain. Anyone who's played Dissidia would know that Cecil has a lot of Dragoon-esque abilities while in Dark Knight mode, and even wields a spear. Also worthy of note, FFXIV DRG had a lot of draining and HP consuming abilities in 1.0, just like a Dark Knight.
My thought is that both FFXIV DRG and Cecil Harvey's Dissidia iteration both bridge the gap between Dark Knight and Dragoon in the absence of one or the other.
To help illustrate my point (and to shamelessly promote my Dissidia replays) here is a link to Cecil vs. Golbez, which is me vs. the AI. I made sure to spend plenty of time as a Dark Knight for the first third of the video. Watch how he can jump and spear-dive, just like a gimpy-DRG! He was able to do this in the original Dissidia since Kain wasn't playable, and kept it after they released Kain in Dissidia 012. -
05-29-2013, 02:35 PMYrusamaActually I forgot to agree with this point. Dragoons are cavalry. That is how they appear throughout history, and I think they were called this in the CNJ quests somewhere (though it isn't in the cutscenes) when you travel to Owl's Nest.Quote:
Originally Posted by NadienKirisame
The Azure Dragoon is different from normal Dragoons in that there can only be one (snicker) and he draws his strength from... was it a dragon's eye? It was very rare for there to be more than one Azure. I don't think we'll ever get the dragonriding DRG, either, just because of the anti-dragon culture in Ishgard. If anything, they'll release a dragon mount that EVERYONE can ride, which takes away what was once an exclusive idea.
Edit: Before I forget, do you think Ishgard would kill us on sight if we brought dragon Minions inside their territory? -
05-29-2013, 07:09 PMCatapult
In mundane combat... you don't jump. Ever.
Sure it may look flashy, but the moment your feet are off the ground you lose all control over your momentum, which your opponent can use to their advantage.
So first things first. With Dragoons were are dealing with an imaginary and gravity-defying combat style. Something to keep in mind. -
05-29-2013, 07:56 PMAlaltus
Ishgardian dragoons are cavalry. Azure Dragoons or Dragon Knights in the japanese version have no connection to dragoons in history. According to the FFXIV lore; it is tradition for the wisest of the dragoon to become the azure, but as your character proves it does not take training in the ways of the cavalry soldier to become an azure.
Considering the battle between Haldrath and Nidhogg happened before Ishgard even existed. Haldrath couldn't have been a Ishgardian dragoon, he might have been trained in the way of the dragoon but we don't know enough about that far back to make that assumption.
Infact it is plausible that chocobos are or were indiginous to Coerthas, if they were indiginous to Coerthas then the dragoon cavalry may not have existed in any form.- Ishgard halted the supply of Chocobo to the three city-states during the epidemic.
- Gysahl Greens are found in Coerthas.
- There is no mention of chocobos in the first battle with Nidhogg, which predates Ishgard being built.
Right now for the AF.
Estinien: Behold the drachen mail, forged in the lifeblood of dragons. As blood calls to blood, so too does the armor call to the dragon within, redoubling the Azure Dragoon's strength thereby. If you would save the people of Ishgard from the great wyrm Nidhogg, you must needs clad yourself in the same.
Estinien: When an Azure Dragoon hangs up his lance, ancient custom decrees that he seal away his drachen mail at the fields of his valor. You must journey to such places and claim the armor for yourself. Your Soul of the Dragoon shall serve as the key to lifting the seals. ~Double Dragoon~
And this.
Alberic: I thought that mayhap the years had taken their toll on my mind, but behold -- the soul of the Dragoon shines as it never did in all the years I bore it.
Alberic: It would seem you have achieved that which was thought impossible; you have awakened to the ability that none but the first Azure Dragoon possessed.
Alberic: I-I can scarce believe mine eyes -- the selfsame armor worn by Haldrath! To think that it had been sealed within the soul crystal all this time...
Alberic: I have borne witness to many and more wonders over the years, yet none compare to you, my young Dragoon. Could it be that you are...?
Alberic: Ahem. Mark not my mutterings. I should rather have said that your indomitable sense of justice resonated with the spirit of the first Azure Dragoon, prompting him to bestow the armor upon you. Yes, that is doubtless what happened. ~Into the Dragon's Maw~
We really only have a small amount of information to go on... My guess is if they found you with it within their walls you would be made an example of, for all to see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yrusama
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05-29-2013, 11:02 PMLaevetine
Its has been sometime, though for the most part AF is going to be related to someone/something famous.
DRG was my favorite which Alaltus explains.
BLM was Ququruka's gear (discolored over time?)
WHM made little sense to me seeing as you collect the rest of the gear yet the body piece is exclusive to you and you alone and did not exist up until that point.
PLD armor is the official garb of Ul'dah's sultansworn.
MNK af is the battle gear for the Ala Mihgo warrior monks.
BRD i really do not remember at all i mean nothing lol, And WAR armor is handed down from Curious Gorge if i remember correctly.
On a side note i still think XI WAR was best lorewise, ugly as sin, but awesome it was shadow lords old armor. -
05-30-2013, 12:28 AMZephyrFox
BRD AF was cast to the ends of the realm by the guy who teaches you how to be a Bard. It used to be his outfit but he threw it away in shame after his incident that made him unwilling to use his bow anymore. The body piece he had with him at the end of the story was the original which he reacquiring from a merchant somewhere. At least that's what I remember...
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05-30-2013, 01:36 AMXeia
Well, the origins of the various armors have been pretty well explained by people so far, and the reasons of the design of DRG too. In all honesty, more than just DRG are the way they are due to appearances in previous titles (ex. WHM is obviously another iteration of the traditional WHM garb), but I like the aerodynamic flying weapon explanation for DRG. It's a little more lore friendly. (This got long, excuse the spoiler tag abuse.)
PLD
Like people said, it's the official armor of the Sultansworn. Likely the white was chosen to represent purity and fidelity (likely the same reason it's been used in previous FF games and on Paladins in other titles). While gold trim is also not breaking any PLD molds, you could also say it's tied to Ul'dah's wealth without making too much of a stretch. The armor underneath is relatively nondescript plate, so is probably just for protection and nothing more.
WAR
This wasn't exactly passed down from Curious Gorge, no, rather he helps you find it. The armor he wears is just a replica of yours, which is the real deal (the armor of his ancestor, who was a true Warrior). If I remember correctly, words of power are supposed to be carved into the armor, but they're obviously not visible in the design. I decided to justify that they're probably on the inside. The Way of the Warrior was developed and taught in a small Hellsguard village removed from any large city, so all the leathers and furs were likely just the materials that were readily available (with metal being used sparingly, since there wasn't a lot of it to go around). The village was also far North, so likely cold, which would again explain the use of furs (to add some more warmth to the protection of the leather). I don't have a good reason for that bladed wrist guard they seem to wear, but I'd guess it's simply another weapon in case the Warrior was disarmed or if an enemy was too close to get a proper swing at them. Also no good guess for the horns, but the original Warriors did lend themselves out as mercenaries, so there was probably a benefit to just plain old looking intimidating. What better way to do that than welding giant horns onto your helmet, right?
MNK
No idea. As far as where it comes from... the AF is worn by all the Monks in the Fist of Rhalgr and is imbued with special powers. It attunes to the wearer, it strengthens their chakra, and the cloth itself has been imbued with Rhalgr's power so that "only monks of his Fist may don it" (though I suspect that part might be myth, the Twelve don't seem to intervene with things so directly, but who knows). As for the color or that giant feather in the circlet, I have no guesses at all.
BRD
ZephyrFox already explained how it is the player comes to have the BRD AF, so I won't rehash that. Before Jehantel hid them all over the place they were given to him by Pukno Poki. So as for the design... I don't know. Moogle fashion?
BLM
I don't believe it's ever actually explained where BLM garb came from in the first place. We're told that in order to close the Voidgate we'll need it, and as Laevetine mentioned, it does look exactly like Ququruka's, minus the color. I don't remember it ever being said that it actually was his, though. As for the design, I'm gonna go with non-Eorzean staple again. The hat is pretty witchy and the style's been used by BLMs since at least FFIV. The color is hardly an imaginative choice for a black mage. No guesses for the fancy purple bits, but I guess sometimes embellishments are just embellishments. This might be one of those times.
WHM
The origins of this one already got talked about, and like I mentioned at the beginning the design's pretty traditional Final Fantasy WHM gear. Like with PLD I'm going for white = purity. I don't have any lore-friendly things to add beyond that.
I can clarify this, though. The design for the body piece does exist before you get yours. The gear was worn by the ancient White Mages (probably the ones that brought about the Water Umbral Era... that's a great way to stave off an angry elemental of wrath, right?). Oha-Sok becomes your body piece to keep an eye on you, and simply takes the form of the final artifact of succor which you were unable to find. Heck, for all we know the mages of old may each have had a special bond with a single elemental who then formed their body piece. It'd explain why we couldn't find one, at least. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Laevetine
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05-31-2013, 02:01 AMHiirNoivlSo my eyes didn't deceive me when I saw Behemoth horns?Quote:
The village was also far North, so likely cold...Also no good guess for the horns, but the original Warriors did lend themselves out as mercenaries, so there was probably a benefit to just plain old looking intimidating. What better way to do that than welding giant horns onto your helmet, right?
Thanks for the excellent responses. :3