Pet Classes /Personalization/?

I wanted to know what everyone was thinking for summoner and beastmaster, or any other possible pet class. Edit: Cant believe I forgot puppetmaster (which we know there are auto's in game, a very very likely class) Thanks Kaiser!

From FFXI the beastmaster really had no connection to its pets (summon from a jar was the closest thing to being connected lol), I was hoping to see a much tighter experience between pet and master for 2.0, am I alone?

The thought was largely sparked by Duelle's post reminding me of Interceptor, Shadow's trusty dog.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

If you want to go down that route, it'd be nice to have combat companions to choose from:

1) Chocobo
2) Moogle
3) Path Companion
4) one of your retainers
5) A suspiciously familiar doberman

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If no why? Do you see any pet class that has a deeper personal experience with its combatant and friend?

Or do you think the chocobo is everyone's pet and that's enough (which we can personalize)?

If yes what kind of personlization are you looking forward to, pet tree, pet armor, loyalty amount, any self reliance (like the summoner will be able to cast spells to help fight) or total reliance on the pet?

I personally would like to see a beastmaster class with some closer relation to its pet - but I am curious how the chocobo and personal pet dynamic would work (double options lol), and if you can also use a path companion at the same time you've got a full party.. (or at least 4 is pretty solid).

What about being able to raise combatable pets (its assumed we can use the tame spell on wild animals, like some other games (WoW, FFXI and probably a lot of others :P))? Perhaps the ability to turn passive pets that everyone can use into combat pets (class/job only ability) - so babemoth the destroyer.. lol

Semi Casual thread so long as it is about pet classes go.

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Originally Posted by Allesasi

Damm We Are BORED!!!!!

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Yes :D



(I realize personalization isn't an oft word, but you can understand it cant you? :P)

Thats why i loved pup so much in ffxi. You could customize the hell out of them. My auto was MY auto and i had a close connection to him. Cant wait to play arcanist/smn but im looking for thay same feeling and connection to my pet as with my automaton.

BST Rongo-Nango style
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__...ongo-Nango.png
1-5 pets following you wearing armor and not been mindless give them good AI
can go either FFXI way of dumb pets been thrown endlessly at mobs till they die which you have 0 connection with your pet.
Or have just 1-3 pets with personality that grow with you

I personally would LOVE to see beastmaster in ffxiv. I was a hardcore bst in ffxi, and eventually quit because they broke the job. There were some elements to that job that were really promising and they never fully developed that job to be as good as it could have been. It really just turned into a generic dd.

The direction that ffxi did not take is one that I hope to see in ffxiv one day. The bst job needed to focused around charm, not around Call Beast. We turned from beastmasters into magicians really, pulling rabbits out of a hat. I hope that in ffxiv we will actually get a class that needs to know the strengths and weaknesses of the wild enemy in order to use them to fight to our advantage. We would need to know the wild terrain better than the city streets. I hope that we actually have to tame the mobs that we see roaming the landscape instead of mobs that we pull from our pocket. And that's where our pets would come from, not some premade familiars that follow us around. If that were the case we wouldn't be bsts anymore, but smns.

Pretty Sure Tonberries were supposed to be among those options :P.

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Originally Posted by Warlock

BST Rongo-Nango style
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__...ongo-Nango.png
1-5 pets following you wearing armor and not been mindless give them good AI
can go either FFXI way of dumb pets been thrown endlessly at mobs till they die which you have 0 connection with your pet.
Or have just 1-3 pets with personality that grow with you

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Thats an interesting concept, I was thinking how to make the difference from puppetmaster to beastmaster to summoner and keep them personal.

Because as SodRansom says, and as you say throwing a chain of pets mercilessly at the enemy with no connection - feels pretty lame.

But how would you balance a player that choose 1 versus a player that choose 3 pets? Or what would make the play style difference from puppet to beast (1 pet vs 1 auto)? Forgive me but I didn't play puppet master so that may have been a silly question. I can imagine the growth of the pet and the auto would be different, one is equipment the other is a literal growing and time (perhaps they could include some sort of nurturing events as well).

Still, I'm interested to hear :P. Like I said I've got 0 for puppet experience so perhaps the answer is obvious lol

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Originally Posted by Warlock

can go either FFXI way of dumb pets been thrown endlessly at mobs till they die which you have 0 connection with your pet.
Or have just 1-3 pets with personality that grow with you

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So like Puppetmaster (from XI too), where your pet grows in terms of how much work and effort you put into it.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Thats an interesting concept, I was thinking how to make the difference from puppetmaster to beastmaster to summoner and keep them personal.

Because as SodRansom says, and as you say throwing a chain of pets mercilessly at the enemy with no connection - feels pretty lame.

But how would you balance a player that choose 1 versus a player that choose 3 pets? Or what would make the play style difference from puppet to beast (1 pet vs 1 auto)? Forgive me but I didn't play puppet master so that may have been a silly question. I can imagine the growth of the pet and the auto would be different, one is equipment the other is a literal growing and time (perhaps they could include some sort of nurturing events as well).

Still, I'm interested to hear :P. Like I said I've got 0 for puppet experience so perhaps the answer is obvious lol

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Something like this.. as the Master i want my pet to be deadly and protected at the same time there is a bond between us
http://dreamworlds.ru/uploads/posts/...5999_kisa3.jpg
http://images.wikia.com/witcher/imag...red_Hound2.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_VTnDFT33Dt...ustom%2529.jpg
Puppets on the other hand are just tools

The mechanic of the automaton was heavy customization. You had heads and frames. It wasnt beneficial to mix and match head/frame combos, except when they introduced the whm and blm heads.

Where the customization comes from are the attachments. Think of them as gear for your auto that either provides a stat boost or grants an ability.

Each attachment has a cost to equip based on the elements. Different heads/frames have different thresholds in each element. For instance, the soulsoother has 7 light threshhold but only like 3? In fire.

Not to mention just like player characters in ffxi the automaton has skills. However it's limited to melee, ranged, and magic skills. Automatons learn ws just like players, by reaching a certain skill level in ranged or melee skill. They automatically learn new spells by skilling up the magic skill, no scroll needed.

This is why i liked pup. Im not knocking bst or smn players but i didnt feel either has near the customization options as pup. Avatars and charmed/jug mobs just seemed expendable with no soul or personality.

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Originally Posted by KaiserDrill

This is why i liked pup. Im not knocking bst or smn players but i didnt feel either has near the customization options as pup. Avatars and charmed/jug mobs just seemed expendable with no soul or personality.

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Yeah I hear ya with the no soul or personality. And I agree with you as far as jug pets go. I guess with charmed mobs though I always felt like they did have a personality, albeit not the same kind as a puppet might. I can see how with pup it's nice because you have the same puppet that you can build up and customize, and you grow attached to as you go up in levels. But I think that the beastmaster charmed pets also had a personality, but a different kind. There's was more of a wild, untamed personality. As you start charming the same mobs over and over you start building up a connection with them, and you have memories about monsters that you killed together. For example, in the La Vaule zone of ffxi, I feel a huge affinity with those pugs down in the trenches. I killed so many of those La Vaule nms in that zone with those little dudes...and they got me killed more often than not too lol.

But that's another thing about bst that I hope they keep. That element of danger that accompanied the job. You never knew whether a charm was going to succeed or not. And while it was usually a reliable skill, the fact that it might fail made the job really exciting. True, you're going to bitch and moan when the charm fails right when you need it the most, but that danger element made the job really attractive to me. That's another reason I don't want a kind of beastmaster that just gets a pet familiar that follows him around. That seems like a cop out. There's no danger there, your pet will follow you around no matter what. There's nothing that separates a good beastmaster from a bad one really.

Oh, and Warlock...multiple pets...yes please lol. I was always so jealous of the beastmaster npc's in Campaign when they pulled out more than one pet.

It seems like the chocobo you raise is going to be the pet you make an attachment to. It's been said you can raise them to be damage dealers, tanks or healers and that they're supposed to have a gambit system.

As far as a class dedicated to pets, seems like Arcanist is going to be it for now with Carbuncle. Who knows what they have in store for the future, but Yoshi-P has already shown interest in Samurai and Ninja so it may be a while before we see another class like BST or PUP.

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Originally Posted by SodRansom

Yeah I hear ya with the no soul or personality. And I agree with you as far as jug pets go. I guess with charmed mobs though I always felt like they did have a personality, albeit not the same kind as a puppet might. I can see how with pup it's nice because you have the same puppet that you can build up and customize, and you grow attached to as you go up in levels. But I think that the beastmaster charmed pets also had a personality, but a different kind. There's was more of a wild, untamed personality. As you start charming the same mobs over and over you start building up a connection with them, and you have memories about monsters that you killed together. For example, in the La Vaule zone of ffxi, I feel a huge affinity with those pugs down in the trenches. I killed so many of those La Vaule nms in that zone with those little dudes...and they got me killed more often than not too lol.

But that's another thing about bst that I hope they keep. That element of danger that accompanied the job. You never knew whether a charm was going to succeed or not. And while it was usually a reliable skill, the fact that it might fail made the job really exciting. True, you're going to bitch and moan when the charm fails right when you need it the most, but that danger element made the job really attractive to me. That's another reason I don't want a kind of beastmaster that just gets a pet familiar that follows him around. That seems like a cop out. There's no danger there, your pet will follow you around no matter what. There's nothing that separates a good beastmaster from a bad one really.

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Thats interesting as well, the desire for the animals to actually remain in a sense wild. Never fully tamed?

I wonder if they would be willing to create some sort of aggro push system, where you try to balance using skills that restore the tamed state and skills that let out the wild state (so you are always juggling this resource in order to maximize output but stay in control of the pet), perhaps skill costs increase if used in short succession (assuming a low cooldown) so trying to face roll your keyboard would lose your animal. If you lose your animals state, or if he dies, is there a way to bring him back or the connection is only as long as he lives? So you would still be cycling pets just not as often?


Does it mean you wouldnt want to see raising a pet, or getting to a state were the pet is very loyal? Perhaps certain animal types can get to a certain height of loyalty, like a drake is almost always going to be on the brink of being lost- but a dodo you may actually fully tame with a sense of sanity left over.

Chocobo sort of counts as a pet to grow with but I'd like to go out and find an animal and start out fresh that way- would also like to see the process of loyalty come from weeks and months of training and not like 10 mins like in WoW.

Perhaps that can show the difference in beastmasters as well, all this would probably make beastmaster a really slow class though lol. BOB use more we need more help! "Hold on! I'm trimming my drakes nails and scrubbing under his scales!" NOW "NO I WORKED REALLY HARD TO GET HIM NOT TO HATE ME! ITS BEEN WEEKS!!" (Loyalty would basically buffer the aggro push system into a happy to unhappy state, where at a certain place in the unhappy-o-meter the pet goes back to being wild and for being a bad beastmaster you have to retame lol)

Thoughts? :P

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Originally Posted by Warlock

Puppets on the other hand are just tools

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no they arent.. a puppet also felt like it had a soul. and was bond to me

i felt like being with a vivi alike thing around.


and i hate taming monsters personally.. because they are so "standard".. standard monsters which you fight in battle... and you have hundreds of hundreds tamer classes especially since hunter in WoW...
thats why i prefer puppetmaster over beastmaster. its fresh and different.

but unfortunatley i think they go with beastmaster first -_-

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Thats interesting as well, the desire for the animals to actually remain in a sense wild. Never fully tamed?

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its not an interesting system... it was an annoying mess in FFXI. and the reason why no one EVER invited a beastmaster into his group, when there is a huge risk to get hit by his own pet each time.

Trust me, Dark Age of Camelot had also some kind of system... in the end after 10 years now.. they ended up with permanent charm, because no one used that other charm anymore.. it was too ineffective.

you can do it like that... monster with the same level as yours -> permanent charm... level above yours -> charm which can resist from time to time.

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Originally Posted by SodRansom

Yeah I hear ya with the no soul or personality. And I agree with you as far as jug pets go. I guess with charmed mobs though I always felt like they did have a personality, albeit not the same kind as a puppet might. I can see how with pup it's nice because you have the same puppet that you can build up and customize, and you grow attached to as you go up in levels. But I think that the beastmaster charmed pets also had a personality, but a different kind. There's was more of a wild, untamed personality. As you start charming the same mobs over and over you start building up a connection with them, and you have memories about monsters that you killed together. For example, in the La Vaule zone of ffxi, I feel a huge affinity with those pugs down in the trenches. I killed so many of those La Vaule nms in that zone with those little dudes...and they got me killed more often than not too lol.

But that's another thing about bst that I hope they keep. That element of danger that accompanied the job. You never knew whether a charm was going to succeed or not. And while it was usually a reliable skill, the fact that it might fail made the job really exciting. True, you're going to bitch and moan when the charm fails right when you need it the most, but that danger element made the job really attractive to me. That's another reason I don't want a kind of beastmaster that just gets a pet familiar that follows him around. That seems like a cop out. There's no danger there, your pet will follow you around no matter what. There's nothing that separates a good beastmaster from a bad one really.

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seperates a good between a bad beastmaster?! ah come on.. the charm system itself did not need anything like "skill"

the charm did not last longer if you were a good or a bad beastmaster.. there was a time when the charm broke for 100%.
i think that kind of charm system sucked (i knew that kind of charm system already from the minstrel in Dark Age of Camelot).

To make the beastmaster useful for a group it'd be better for them to implement a permanent charm..
to be a useful party member in an instance the beastmaster should be able to... dont know.. to have about 3-5 "save slots" to save his personal pets. and call them wherever he wants to.


thats the only way to make him an attractive job for groups and instanced raids. a charm which we know in FFXI just sucked. and that was the reason why it was a solo class.


give him about 3-5 save slots for his personal pets (like the skill slots for the blue mage in FFXI). so that he can call his pets wherever he is (in instances etc).. and make him able to exchange his existing pets against new ones.

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

its not an interesting system... it was an annoying mess in FFXI. and the reason why no one EVER invited a beastmaster into his group, when there is a huge risk to get hit by his own pet each time.

Trust me, Dark Age of Camelot had also some kind of system... in the end after 10 years now.. they ended up with permanent charm, because no one used that other charm anymore.. it was too ineffective.

you can do it like that... monster with the same level as yours -> permanent charm... level above yours -> charm which can resist from time to time.

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I think they could change it so when the pet disobeys it perhaps runs away or like pokemon says "rush evolved Charzard: F U" and does nothing. In this way they are not a threat to be invited to party. Since a beastmaster relies on their pet fully it is still quite punishing to have your damage output lock up because of poor play. Say taking in that balancing act idea in my post, instead of the monster beating you to shit he does something a little less realistic so beastmasters are not a threat to the party.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I think they could change it so when the pet disobeys it perhaps runs away or like pokemon says "rush evolved Charzard: F U" and does nothing. In this way they are not a threat to be invited to party. Since a beastmaster relies on their pet fully it is still quite punishing to have your damage output lock up because of poor play. Say taking in that balancing act idea in my post, instead of the monster beating you to shit he does something a little less realistic so beastmasters are not a threat to the party.

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thats no solution.

imagine a bossfight against garuda with a beastmaster in party.. after 3 minutes "oh sorry guys.. my pet ran away"
do you REALLY think a beastmaster would get invited then anymore? a beastmasters positive aspect is his pet and its monsterskills. when he loses it many times within a fight its nothing more than ineffective, useless and annoying of course.
the only guys who liked that job in FFXI have been pure soloist players or masochists. the system itself was just poorly bad. (and that opinion coming from a person who loves pet jobs)


and isnt it better to have a real "companion" with you as a beastmaster instead of always wild and timid pets who run away how they want to? Does a wild horse run away after you succeeded taming it?..

so i say:

for the pet itself:
- permant charm (at least for monster at the same level as you)
- about 5 save slots for different beasts to make the beastmaster be able to call his pets even in an instanced raid.
- maybe a restistable charm for pets that are higher than your level, with the risk of breaking the charm (giving BST the option to charm higher monsters)


to make him a useful class for groups.. and of course.. less ANNOYING..
the resistable charm would give BST the option to charm mobs, that are at a higher level with a risk that they can break the charm at anytime.

besides that they should give BST other skills to push his own damage.. like:

for the BST:
- berserk mode (boosts melee damage, reduces defense)
- savagery (boosts evasion and acc)
- transfer pain to the pet for a certain time (20% ish)
- sacrifice pet (regain HP + stat boost for a certain time)
- use horn to call one of your saved beasts


because a pet only does not grant you a place in a party. when they are going to introduce BST they should do a bit more than just a charm skill.

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

thats no solution.

imagine a bossfight against garuda with a beastmaster in party.. after 3 minutes "oh sorry guys.. my pet ran away"
do you REALLY think a beastmaster would get invited then anymore? a beastmasters positive aspect is his pet and its monsterskills. when he loses it many times within a fight its nothing more than ineffective, useless and annoying of course.
the only guys who liked that job in FFXI have been pure soloist players or masochists. the system itself was just bad.


and isnt it better to have a real "companion" with you as a beastmaster instead of always wild and timid pets who run away how they want to? Does a wild horse run away after you succeeded taming it?..

so i say:

- permant charm (at least for monster at the same level as you)
- about 5 save slots for different beasts to make the beastmaster be able to call his pets even in an instanced raid.
- maybe a restistable charm for pets that are higher than your level (but no option to save it to your pet reportoir, more or less the same crappy charm skill like in FFXI)


to make him a useful class for groups.. and of course.. less ANNOYING..
the resistable charm would give BST the option to charm mobs, that are at a higher level.

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I meant the pet would runaway but be within tameable radius (and stay non aggro unless you left it alone for a long time, in which it would despawn).

And yes I think so. If you make the beastmaster able to do enough damage that they can balance their animal then its fine.

It would be just like a Blackmage using their mana, some do it poorly others do it really well no one kicks a black mage out because they can go to 0 magic and are useless.

Also having your pet grow in loyalty would make the pet easier to juggle in its wild / tame side so as a beastmaster you could distinctively feel play difference between your wild and non wild pets.

So a loyal pet that you piss off would maybe disobey for a second but stay put, perhaps when getting attacked personally the pet will never disobey (loyal pets will defend their master without thought of self) because I dont buy the cast one spell and you have a fully tamed pet idea. But I also agree that having a full on pet is way more enjoyable then something that hates you and something you just send off to die lol.

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Originally Posted by Warlock

Puppets on the other hand are just tools

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Using this logic pets in most other generic MMORPGs are just tools as well because the majority were only useful for:

1. Riding
2. Auto Attacking a.k.a aiding in your DPS.

That is the definition of being a tool. Automata were much more than just "tools" but if you actually played FFXI and actually played PUP, I'm betting you were one of those PUPs who only had the basic 8 attachments and wondered why it did nothing useful.

The storyline itself should tell you they're more than just tools..and hell, the fact it (along with SMNs and their Avatars) has storylines already put it above what the majority of MMOs does with their pet systems. Not to mention, the differences in behavior with the 3 pet jobs was explained pretty well in game:

1. Avatars have a pact with you and depending on that pact affects their behavior, i.e Avatars will auto attack anything that attacks you because their pact is to protect and serve you for proving your worth against them, exception being Carbuncle who joins you of her own free will.

2. Jug Pets are mindless monsters that need guidance to do more than just what their nature intended, thus why them along with Charmed Monsters won't give a shit if your face is being ripped off. The reason enemy Beastmaster's pets attack is due to the fact they have automated mechanics from being NPCs. Something easily changed.

3. Puppetmaster's automata aren't soul less tools, they actually have a soul and they grow with you as long as you program them properly, which is why without proper programming, they won't be as efficient. Their efficiency also lays in how well you as the master know how to use and maintain maneuvers.

This is probably why they're going the cop-out route and using the "essences" system for SMN.

Btw, you're less likely to have a bond with a war lion or war elephant bred only for transport and killing because chances are they weren't bred by you than you are with programmable A.I designed and maintained to your spec, just sayin.

nobody seems to listen to my suggestions ;XD

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

nobody seems to listen to my suggestions ;XD

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lol I responded :P

I said yes I think permanent charmed pet is interesting and preferred but unlike auto a beastmaster has to deal with a wild animal - unless they raise that animal. I would think it would be very exciting to raise a pet from a baby (which we can do with chocobos but that's /everyone's/ pet).

Even then beastmasters have to be careful with the wild, like zookeepers don't kick the lion's nuts and expect to get out of the cage alive.

There has to be some distinct differences between puppet and beast because atm it sounds like two classes with permanent pets one is mechanical and one is natural- working on the nuances would help but even that.. I'm curious if they are too similar.

A part of the reason I wanted to see what people thought. I like the comments going on about the puppetmaster, specially since I never played them- I quit before trying all the classes :P.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Btw, you're less likely to have a bond with a war lion or war elephant bred only for transport and killing because chances are they weren't bred by you than you are with programmable A.I designed and maintained to your spec, just sayin.

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Did you literally write code, or are you just saying that metaphorically / through quests and gear? (Like I said, beyond what it says on the wiki I've got no clue lol).

Would love for beastmaster to be able to raise his pets- perhaps the chocobo stables can also be used as a grounds for beastmasters until they own a house. Little baby lambu.. XD

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

Stuff about BST..

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You talk as if you never actually played BST in XI...

1) BST not getting invites to parties had NOTHING to do with charm; they simply had two decent party roles, Fish or DD, and they effectively were terrible at both in comparison to the other.. more party-orientated.. classes. Even still, in my 6 years on XI (pre Abyssea...) I was in quite a few parties with BST when I couldn't find anything else to fill the spot.

2) Charm could most certainly last longer if you were a better (geared) BST; Not to mention a noob BST has a much smaller chance of a successful recovery after missing a charm...

Beastmaster should DEFINETLY keep charm/tame as a staple to the class, period.

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Originally Posted by Exn

You talk as if you never actually played BST in XI...

1) BST not getting invites to parties had NOTHING to do with charm; they simply had two decent party roles, Fish or DD, and they effectively were terrible at both in comparison to the other.. more party-orientated.. classes. Even still, in my 6 years on XI (pre Abyssea...) I was in quite a few parties with BST when I couldn't find anything else to fill the spot.

2) Charm could most certainly last longer if you were a better (geared) BST; Not to mention a noob BST has a much smaller chance of a successful recovery after missing a charm...

Beastmaster should DEFINETLY keep charm/tame as a staple to the class, period.

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so what did i say differently? i know that BST was also VERY too average.
but the charm system was also a VERY (if not the most) reason for a BST not being in a party (especially in an instance)

i also wrote they should implement more skills than just a charm to the BST to distinguish much more to other classes:

for example things like:
- berserk mode (boosts melee damage, reduces defense)
- savagery (boosts evasion and acc)
- transfer pain to the pet for a certain time (20% ish)
- sacrifice pet (regain HP + stat boost for a certain time)
- use horn to call one of your saved beasts
- roar (reduces targets attack and crit chance)
- WS that cause bleedings
- fear...

many possibillities


well and you did not listen

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2) Charm could most certainly last longer if you were a better (geared) BST; Not to mention a noob BST has a much smaller chance of a successful recovery after missing a charm...

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woohoo.. so much better..

and you are so totally wrong.. it was not just because beastmaster was so "average" in every thing, because you cant take your beasts into an instance.. thats why i say a beast should have about 5 save slots for his tamed beasts to call them everywhere..
the jug pets in FFXI have been just a big joke,.

what does a beastmaster is useful for in a dungeon where he cant tame a beast? how useful is it for a group, when the boss itself is hardcore enough, and additionally the beastmaster has to handle/ "fight" against his own beast... and of course the worst case that he gets knocked out because of his own pet..

THESE are BIG ISSUES for non permenant charms. thats why no one wanted a minstrel in Dark Age Of Camelot to use his charm in a group ("leave your pet please aside it hits you every fucking 30 seconds..")

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Beastmaster should DEFINETLY keep charm/tame as a staple to the class, period.

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welcome to the last century...

and dragoons in FFXIV still have wyvern pets... yes...

this is FFXIV and not FFXI and they shouldnt make the same mistakes twice.
and a BST in FFXI was an ABSOLUTE design mess. A Dragoon in FFXIV is now also very much more popular than it has been in FFXI.

the same should happen to the BST, if they are going to introduce this job.

Like i posted earlier, im not slamming bst or smn players. I just dont feel there was as much depth to the pet system. I always thought of drille as a robot more than a puppet, and like elexia said earlier the better you program them the more efficient they are.

On the subject that they were just souless tools XD. Smh. If you played ANY of the toau storyline, even as a non pup, how would you explain aphmau's automatons? Or if you did play the pup storyline how would you explain iruki-waraki's auto deciding to run off on its own?

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

More stuff

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No I listened, er well tried too, but your making little sense to anyone who actually played the class. Perhaps why your not getting much support... Aside from that, your ideas of abilities to supplement charm/tame aren't bad, which is why I didn't bother to address them.

My two statements still stand, regardless on if you want to try to change your view now to agree. BST invites had NOTHING to do with charm... (well in my 6 years of playing); and skill/experience definetly factored into using charm/tame effectively, not just random dumb luck...

You last comment about tame/charm being last century?! So I guess while were at it lets remove elemental magic from BLMs, Healing Magic from WHM, Jump from DRGs, etc... Yeah, you sure do make an excellent point there..

Anyway, I'm not trying to change your rather skewed opinion on the matter, I just responded because you seemed disappointed that people weren't replying to your views on the matter..

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Originally Posted by Exn

Beastmaster should DEFINETLY keep charm/tame as a staple to the class, period.

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I totally love the discussion that is going on here. Shougun and Tonkra, you both have some really good ideas that frankly I need to just stop reading because I get too excited lol.

But I needed to quote this from Exn because I TOTALLY agree! Charm and Tame are imo the staple of beastmasters. They are what make that class totally unique. Without them they don't seem much different to me than a summoner, you're just summoning from a jug vs something else. The ability to interact with the mobs you find out in the wild is something I find extremely attractive, and that should NEVER go away. Otherwise you just get a canned pet that, while it is appealing to have a permanent "companion," the fact that you can't tame any other beasts you find goes totally against the lore of the job.

As far as the value a bst brings to a pt goes, it's true that this could probably be tweaked more, and ffxi's solution to this was to do away with charm and just make bst a glorified dd, only as good as his jug pet was. (lol, there went the millions of gil I spent in +chr gear). But this is where the discussion would need to take place if SE was ever going to implement bst into ffxiv. How do we let a bst interact with his environment in order to bring value to a party.

Having said that though, I was always content to play solo in ffxi. I loved being able to do things in a low man party that would take others a whole party plus some to accomplish. That brings on the question, is it ok to have a job in an MMO that is more viable for solo? Imo yes it is, because there is more interaction in an mmo than just fighting in parties, but others might disagree.

Also, to clarify what I meant by this:

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

seperates a good between a bad beastmaster?! ah come on.. the charm system itself did not need anything like "skill"

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It IS true that charm in itself does not require any skill (unless you count what gear you have as skill, which I really don't) But what you do when charm fails, and how you react to that situation, especially when it happens in the most inconvenient moment IS what separates a good bst from a bad one. That's what I meant by this. You take that element of danger away, and it's really just hack and slash..all the time.

I loved the tamer in Ultima Online.

You tamed it , and then could train it and stable it, or sell it to other players.

Horses were low level, and anyone could own them, and they were used a lot. Also there were tamers who sold dragons to other tamers, this especially worked for tamers who just got skill enough to own them, but failed to much to tame one.

In the past you could have any amount, but later they fixed it.
I remember having 6 white wyrms, and feel pretty save.
Of course you had to watch out with commands, and make sure they all were happy, else they could go wild, and attack you.

Of course it was overkill, so they created a point system, you would have 5 points in total (you did need the tamer skill I believe to get more then 2 points, but you could have a horse with no skills at all), some animals were 1 point, and some more points. Like my white wyrm was 3 points and my nightmare that I used to ride on was 2 points.

Also having a pack of certain animals, gave a pack damage bonus, so in pack some did more damage together then a dragon, but of course the dragon had more HP, so the pack animals were sooner killed and the pack bonus was destroyed.


They only go wild on you if you didn't feed them enough. Also high lvl pets always had a change to not listen to commands, if it happened their loyality dropped a bit.

I still miss my pets from UO, like now, I really want to activate my account to see them. But I did own a few of them for around 2 years. Having capped skills, and somehow in my mind they had personality, it seemed my white wyrm Angel always listen much better then my white wyrm Bossy.

I also like animist from dark age of camelot, they had a few pets, (plant kind of things if I remember correct, most of them couldn't move) But it is really long ago I played that game.

I also love the puppet master in FFXI, you felt connection with your pet, it was always the same, but you could modify it with attachments.

I did have a lvl 99 bst in FFXI, but I was very dissapointed that you couldn't own and train a pet. I like the idea of having a stable with different kind of pets for different kind of situations, and training them.

Like someone said here, maybe that you can tame higher level pets, but you can't own them, and they can go wild.

I am really interested in the chocobo breeding and companion. I hope they really feel like a loyal pet, that you can ride and if needed use in battle. Getting a connection with them.

I so want to have a little chick following me with my adventures (optional), till it grows strong enough to help me in battle.
I really hope with kind of friendship meter, how better the friendship is how more it wants to help you.

And of course emotes with them.
Saying hello emote will make make a sound as a kind of hello in their own way, when you dance to them, they do a little dance.
When you emote angry at them, they show a sad reaction.
While a happy motion will make them happy also etc...
A hug animation and a kiss animation with your chocobo :D

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Originally Posted by Elexia

~snip~

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FFXI didn't invent puppets....
That said.. Automata are an extension of you and you have full control of them ..they are empty shells that follow the moves of your hands/fingers to execute attacks. The 2 automaton in FFXI had a soul/personality for the story line just like Jhonny Five :p

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Do you see any pet class that has a deeper personal experience with its combatant and friend?

Or do you think the chocobo is everyone's pet and that's enough (which we can personalize)?

If yes what kind of personlization are you looking forward to, pet tree, pet armor, loyalty amount, any self reliance (like the summoner will be able to cast spells to help fight) or total reliance on the pet?

I personally would like to see a beastmaster class with some closer relation to its pet - but I am curious how the chocobo and personal pet dynamic would work (double options lol), and if you can also use a path companion at the same time you've got a full party.. (or at least 4 is pretty solid).

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To be honest, this topic kind of brings me back to wanting a somewhat limited pool from which to draw all class's development (in other words, some exclusivity). I want pet-raising to be huge. Absolutely huge. But I don't like the idea that you'd require a whip or the like just to work with said pet. It doesn't seem like an armory type decision at all. Nor does it really seem like a "job" decision as jobs have been dived thus far throughout the series (essentially classes, rather than pursuits). [I personally see the ideal role of jobs as being a pursuit of some sort of personal preference in the way one fights (and more) that manifests itself in certain class choices that eventually develops into a very specific fitting "job" that probably isn't even preset.] I'd rather lose some sort of 'ingenious insight' that I'd otherwise have into some other art, be it swordplay or archery or black magic, in exchange for the experience of basically sharing the entirety of my pursuits with this pet. No matter what particular class I'm in, I could still work with my pet; he's a relationship and a share of my combat mechanic and combat power (not necessarily an augmentation, just a diversifying share) first and foremost. He is not a familiar. He does not vanish into another plane as soon as I'm not feeding him magic. He might well complain from lack of food though.

Like in leveling with a path companion (in the way I would hope to be possible), Chocobo, etc, one's time, the building of the relationship, and perhaps even "keys" (notably levels and likely pet-type-unique quests) will probably come into account. If I were staying as a beastmaster (kind of like the choice of equipping a job stone as opposed to having the open class version) consistently, I'd be seeing the pets I leveled with all the time--they're my primary or co-primary tool of combat after all. But, let's say I didn't want to divide my learning up at all, or wanted to focus on something else. Depending the way xp works (yes, we are solidly grounded in ambiguous theory now, not just the way ARR currently works and likely will continue working), that pet may be progressing, akin to a dynamic NPC, as you do, and you'd still be seeing it at learning from it at different points in time before restarting your partnership. Or, perhaps that could be the case only for key beast NPCs, which would truly function like your path companions, but with an additional level of control for Beastmasters. [Mage classes for instance would have additional things to enjoy from quests involving spirits or repeating spirit characters, and physical classes to their respective weapons, such as in 'In Pursuit of the Dark Sword' type quests.] Well, that's ranty enough. I'll stop there.

Speaking of Puppet-masters... I'd love to be able to take a cursed weapon from one boss, the head from a Halloween special scarecrow boss, a mechanical carapace I dug up from an archaeological site in deep Thanalan, and a still-beating etherial heart from a Black Shroud outskirts questline, and from all that and my own crafting expertise have my perfect puppet. It's hard to beat Puppeteer in terms of carrying your leveling experience with you. As long as the puppets' building process is open to upgrades and adaptation, it's a perfect sink for one's own collection, perfectionism, and resourcefulness alike.

Tldr; I want huge adaptability with great investment (in terms of choices and experiences, not just as a time sink) for every class, but pet classes are where it should be most noticeable and key to the class experience [as opposed to skill and theory or "know your class, know thyself", pet classes should be more "know your partner, know yourself"]. However, I don't know how well it will do as a stand-alone class and especially how well it will do within the armory system. Personally, I'd prefer them as something of a job augmentation onto another class, almost like a Swordsman-Beastmaster. This would allow greater and more reasonable versatility in how one works with their pet. [I'd actually would have liked to see summoner as a augmentation onto Conjurer, Thaumaturge, and Arcanist separately, each with different pet types and priorities befitting their respective elemental-spiritual, dark-ritualistic, and theoretical-magic ties.]

To me "Tamer" seems like a Disciple of Land class, with skinning and herding being sub-components of that class. It does not seem combat-capable until having already reached the title of Beast Master. Its strength should then lie in its adaptability and diversification of earlier class playstyles and complementation of their roles. After that, certain ties between pet and weapon types (without forcing pairing decisions) should be able to lead to advanced jobs.

Sorry, Shougan, it seems I wrote another long one.

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

thats no solution.

imagine a bossfight against garuda with a beastmaster in party.. after 3 minutes "oh sorry guys.. my pet ran away"
do you REALLY think a beastmaster would get invited then anymore? a beastmasters positive aspect is his pet and its monsterskills. when he loses it many times within a fight its nothing more than ineffective, useless and annoying of course.
the only guys who liked that job in FFXI have been pure soloist players or masochists. the system itself was just poorly bad. (and that opinion coming from a person who loves pet jobs)


and isnt it better to have a real "companion" with you as a beastmaster instead of always wild and timid pets who run away how they want to? Does a wild horse run away after you succeeded taming it?..

to make him a useful class for groups.. and of course.. less ANNOYING..

*the resistable charm would give BST the option to charm mobs, that are at a higher level with a risk that they can break the charm at anytime.

because a pet only does not grant you a place in a party. when they are going to introduce BST they should do a bit more than just a charm skill.

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You could always change the way a Beast-master works depending on his being in a raid vs. simple leveling. Having the possibility of your pet running away, while being fairly bursty when able to partly influence that same wild (and thereby non-weakened) enemy beast would be a fun part of leveling. Though even then it would certainly help to have a spare consistent (weaker) pet at the ready to back you up.

All it really takes is formula changes. A "tamed beast", as compared to a "pet", would keep its additional abilities and strength, rather than sharing strength with you based on your stats and its calculation types, but is able to flee. A single additional pet slot already allows a beast-master to be used to cause friendly-fire among enemies in the worst of cases, without the risk that comes with being unable to replace the risky minion at a later time. If that's not enough, we could set boss fights to keep "tamed beast" type skills at "pet"-calculated loyalty and strength. This would allow certain pre-scripted encounter variance dependent on having certain beasts from before the boss fight, etc, without immense risk (aside from perhaps losing whatever bonuses you've worked up between you and your pet during the fight before fleeing or going berserk on your party).

I'd prefer that taming itself not be too easy at low levels, and taming by spell alone not last long without due later effort even at high levels. I'm fine with seeing it rarely used in instances when there's not enough time to lead a lonely-looking enemy wolf away with a line of meat slabs, kind telepathy, and some petting. We always have our primary pets, and at some point we'll hit the limits of our kennel sizes, no matter how much room we're given.

Edit: I completely agree with SodRansom that taming should be a major element of the job though, for those who wish to use it. It's a feature of the job that goes beyond merely how it does combat, and removing it would be like a Gambler class without any risk involved in its structure. Trusting the instinct of a beast, guarding against it, efficiently or optomistically balancing both... those are some pretty cool thematic elements, to put it mildly.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I

The thought was largely sparked by Duelle's post reminding me of Interceptor, Shadow's trusty dog. [HB]

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WAIT FOR IT!......... NINJA IS THE NEW PET CLASS!!!!!!!!!!!(mind blown!) Doverman pet!!!!!!! your welcome


edit: god i hope no one beat me to this lol i didnt fully research if any one had lol

edit: though i said this as a joke to start out with i started another thread for actual discussion. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...547#post929547