Monk redesign and Red Mage?

Hey everyone,

I looked for a similar thread, but was unable to find one.

Based on the recent information coming from the dev team, it seems like Monk (and by extent, I would assume Pugilist) is being redesigned into a more combo-based job. This got me wondering whether they will be removing the elemental fists and replacing them with additional martial arts type moves with the fists becoming the equivalent of enspell and given to an eventual Red Mage Class. Or maybe a Sorcerer class?

What do you think? Do you think we'll see this happening? Do you think there would be a separate class for Red Mage/Sorcerer, or could it come from GLD main and CNJ? Maybe this could open up the possibilty of using Sacred Prism/Elemental Fist?

NOTE: I realize this thread will be entirely speculative as we don't have information. I'm just curious to see if people think this would be a decent option. Also, I did do a search but didn't find anything similar. Apologies if there is already a thread about this.

It really wouldn't be an FF game without Red Mage in some form so I'm almost 100% certain we'll get it.

Eh, it's a bit early to guess, but you might be on to something OP.

If the changes to MNK result in losing elemental stances, I think it's safe to assume that the plan is for RDM to be an elemental attacker.

I would be fine with monks losing elementals, especially if they make up for it with additional combos. From the sounds of it, that could very well be what we're getting.

I definitely want to see Sorcerer, as long as you're talking about this Sorcerer:

http://www.fantasyanime.com/finalfan...s/ff5job09.gif

I hope it doesn't get absorbed into Red Mage like in 11.

Play gladiator there you have red lotus (sword ws) and spells like fire, ice, wind, cure etc... wait for summoner and then you can equip poison, slow, paralyze, too.

and there you go with "redmage". the problem is, that a redmage makes no real sense because of the current class system. A gladiator could almost be a redmage (if he wanted to.. and technically). Because the redmage did not add any active spells, except refresh and -en spells.

but he mainly just mixes up blm and whm spells, and thats about it. so there really is no much need for rdm (if they design him the same like in FFXI)

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

Play gladiator there you have red lotus (sword ws) and spells like fire, ice, wind, cure etc... wait for summoner that you can equip paralyze, poison with your gladi, too.

and there you go with "redmage". the problem is, that a redmage makes no real sense because of the current class system. A gladiator could almost be a redmage (if he wanted to.. and technically). Because the redmage did not add any active spells, except refresh and -en spells.

but he mainly just mixes up blm and whm spells, and thats about it. so there really is no much need for rdm (if they design him the same like in FFXI)

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I think it's pretty obvious that they would design it different, it is a different game after all.

The fact that they are IIRC removing the elemental fists from pug/mnk leads me to believe they want to make something like a red mage. However, with how careful Yoshi is being about getting everything right i wouldnt wait on bated breath for it to be added any time soon. Rdm in ffxi suffered greatly due to balancing, so i think theyre gonna take their time with it. That being said, dont be surprised if RDM (if and when it's released) is quite different than what we're used to.

No elemental fists would mean no dependency on mp anymore

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Originally Posted by Masamune1004

I definitely want to see Sorcerer, as long as you're talking about this Sorcerer:

http://www.fantasyanime.com/finalfan...s/ff5job09.gif

I hope it doesn't get absorbed into Red Mage like in 11.

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Yeah, I liked Sorcerer in FFV.

Another point this has gotten me thinking about is that there are many, MANY jobs in the FF universe that use swords. With the armory system, this would lead GLD to having too many jobs while other classes are left in the dust. In order to balance everything out, it could be cool to see a switch around of the weapons used by the various jobs.

Spear-wielding Sorcerer anyone? Or, my personal favourite, Archer + Arcanist => Beastmaster. Trade out Carbuncle for jug pets and allow us to charm monsters (hmmmm.. thinking about it, that would be problematic because of the ammo slot... but I guess you could have it in another slot) and it could be reminiscent of the Hunter's Critter ability from no: 5.

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Originally Posted by Draxis_Fallspear

Yeah, I liked Sorcerer in FFV.

Another point this has gotten me thinking about is that there are many, MANY jobs in the FF universe that use swords. With the armory system, this would lead GLD to having too many jobs while other classes are left in the dust. In order to balance everything out, it could be cool to see a switch around of the weapons used by the various jobs.

Spear-wielding Sorcerer anyone? Or, my personal favourite, Archer + Arcanist => Beastmaster. Trade out Carbuncle for jug pets and allow us to charm monsters (hmmmm.. thinking about it, that would be problematic because of the ammo slot... but I guess you could have it in another slot) and it could be reminiscent of the Hunter's Critter ability from no: 5.

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Yoshi has mentioned before that different subweapon types can belong to different classes.

For instance something like:
1-handed sword = Paladin
great sword = Dark Knight
sabre/rapier = Red Mage
katana/kunai = Ninja
great katana = Samurai
scimitar = Blue Mage
dagger = Thief
etc.

Heck, we already have an existing example in the game. White Mage and Black Mage use different types of staves/wands. WHM having staves/wands made with natural materials, branches etc and Black Mage having staves/wands made of processed/forged metals.

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Originally Posted by Meatdawg

No elemental fists would mean no dependency on mp anymore

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It could lose elemental fist and get something like chakra fist which would be the same but not be dependent on elements.

I'd like to see Red Mage make a reappearance. I like the ability to be able to do several things (attack, heal spells, attack spells). Seeing as all classes already have a Job attached to them, I see them either adding new classes in an expansion or doubling up with 2 Jobs per class. RDM would be kinda hard to to set it's main class without disturbing the balance of the RDM roll: GLD main -> becomes main melee with cnj and thm support; THM main -> attack spell caster with cnj support and near no melee abilty; CNJ main -> becomes main healing with thm support and like thm main, nearly no melee ability.
I see RDM getting it's own base class like Mage Knight or something similar with Job RDM. Rapier type weapon has somehow become a RDM classic weapon and from all the swords in FFXIV 1.X there were no rapier types(if I'm wrong point me to one), so Rapiers could be a new weapon. As for spells the could give the class and job it's own unique spell that slightly diverge from the classic WHM and BLM jobs we have now but still keep the FF feel. Burn, Rasp, Drown, etc.?

I just don't see RDM coming to us till the first expansion. But here's hoping to RDM in the future!

Red Mage can have stoneskin. FFXI Red Mage could also use bow. Not saying this game needs that but the idea of a good at everything best at nothing is kind of reminiscent of Red Mage.

On the idea of RDM using a Bow as main. BRD would already be our RDM: ARC main CNJ and THM subs.

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Originally Posted by Wilksha

I see RDM getting it's own base class like Mage Knight or something similar with Job RDM. Rapier type weapon has somehow become a RDM classic weapon and from all the swords in FFXIV 1.X there were no rapier types(if I'm wrong point me to one), so Rapiers could be a new weapon. As for spells the could give the class and job it's own unique spell that slightly diverge from the classic WHM and BLM jobs we have now but still keep the FF feel. Burn, Rasp, Drown, etc.?

I just don't see RDM coming to us till the first expansion. But here's hoping to RDM in the future!

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Well to be truthful they have an un-utilized class called Musketeer that they reserved rapier, epee, and bilbo type weapons for so I think their intention when they later released the Jobs was to bring in the un-used classes that were promised at 1.0's launch, and by extent RDM seems to be the most likely candidate (and perhaps Corsair to a lesser extent) to be Musketeers job.

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Originally Posted by SwordCoheir

Well to be truthful they have an un-utilized class called Musketeer that they reserved rapier, epee, and bilbo type weapons for so I think their intention when they later released the Jobs was to bring in the un-used classes that were promised at 1.0's launch, and by extent RDM seems to be the most likely candidate (and perhaps Corsair to a lesser extent) to be Musketeers job.

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for arcanist all they kept was the name, the entire concept of it is nothing like what it was supposed to be. Also the weapon is different.

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Originally Posted by SwordCoheir

Well to be truthful they have an un-utilized class called Musketeer that they reserved rapier, epee, and bilbo type weapons for so I think their intention when they later released the Jobs was to bring in the un-used classes that were promised at 1.0's launch, and by extent RDM seems to be the most likely candidate (and perhaps Corsair to a lesser extent) to be Musketeers job.

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Once again Musketeer Guild class is for:

http://soldmyseoul.files.wordpress.c.../01/musket.jpg

Musket users


And should not be confused with the -->Musketeers - A specialized group of 3 people that used Rapier weapons and fought against the empire, of their time. Rapier wielders that would be closer related to the Fencer/RedMage job for FF.

http://heyoscarwilde.com/wp-content/...drews_musk.gif

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

for arcanist all they kept was the name, the entire concept of it is nothing like what it was supposed to be. Also the weapon is different.

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Well to be fair most jobs got a complete makeover from their original creation, like how THM had Banish and Scourge and mostly Enfeebled, and CONJ had all the elemental nukes, now THM mostly nukes and CONJ mainly focuses on heals lots have changed. Like I said though, they're probably going to bring in the classes that were promised but never given and their respective jobs first before they introduce more entirely new classes into the game.

Is Sorcerer the Swordmage that I'm thinking of? With the cool turban and cape and with the ability to cast Bio and such on the swords? I've been crying for that class since I first played XI, that looked really cool and I would play the hell out of it.

As a MNK player though I would really like to see the stance system make a comeback when they had it in beta: more evasion/accuracy vs more dmg/lower accuracy. Well, something like it, maybe doing stuff like Fists of Wind in reducing cooldown, or ones that improve TP Gain...stuff like that would be great.

A musketeer (French: mousquetaire) was an early modern type of infantry soldier equipped with a musket. Musketeers were an important part of early modern armies, particularly in Europe. They sometimes could fight on horseback, like a dragoon or a cavalryman. The musketeer was a precursor to the rifleman.

Musketeers fought in battle both on foot (infantry) and on horseback (dragoons).

The Three Musketeers, in the magazine Le Siècle between March and July 1844. The author, Alexandre Dumas, père, based his work on the book Mémoires de Monsieur d'Artagnan, capitaine lieutenant de la première compagnie des Mousquetaires du Roi (Memoirs of Mister d'Artagnan, Lieutenant Captain of the first company of the King's Musketeers) by Gatien de Courtilz de Sandras (Cologne, 1700).

"The Three Musketeers" is what made fencing Musketeers a popular notion when they actually used muskets as their main arm.

Source; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musketeer

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Originally Posted by Sleverin

Is Sorcerer the Swordmage that I'm thinking of? With the cool turban and cape and with the ability to cast Bio and such on the swords? I've been crying for that class since I first played XI, that looked really cool and I would play the hell out of it.

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I believe your thinking of Mystic(Runic) Knight from FF5, although FF11 and FF Tactics Blue Mages do don turbans. I wouldn't completely rely on lore from previous games however, often the roles of jobs become disassociated and varied compared to different titles with only a handful of aspects carried over like RDM being able to melee and cast white and black magic, PLD being a tank or DD with healing abilities, DRK having sacrificing abilities to increase damage, etc the role of a job itself may change.

iirc Sorcerer was what Mystic Knight was known as in Japan.

And I'd love a turban wielding spell sword.

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Originally Posted by Rustyhagun

Once again Musketeer Guild class is for: etc

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Hellalulah!

Musketeer =/= "The Three Musketeers"

The class "Musketeer" I would imagine would be more of a Vincent (ff7) and Irvine (ff8) stem. Although these characters didn't always have a "musket" style weapon, they usually carried a double barrelled one handed shotgun or something similar.

More on topic - the stems from class>job should look more like
Fencer > RDM
Musketeer > COR
(in my opinion).

As for Monks losing elemental fists and MP dependency, I asked that question in another thread in a more specific sense- Will the MNK relic be adjusted since MP is no longer needed?

On a side note they could potentially keep elemental fists or some form of stance that requires MP with the same enhancments (increased defence [earth], increased attack [fire], reduced recast/fast movement [wind]) without the elemental affinity tied to these. i.e. keep the advantages of the fists but lose the element...

Just a thought, but my impressions are that MNK's whole concept is being reworked.

Well I think they said the PUG/MNK would take more of a combo heavy setup, so they may have moves with multiple combo potential whereallthere abilities have multiple types of "combos" that intiate different effects when used.

Like a Dragon Kick could have 3 combo types:
Jab-Backhand= Decrease recast of DK
Backhand-Hook= Increase dmg of combos for next 30 seconds
Jab-Hook-Backhand= increase dmg and chance of crit, if crit does more dmg then regular crit

Something to that extent is where I see they may take PUG/MNK in terms of comboing and it would be neat to see if that's the case, where they can gain different effect based on how they combo their attacks up to the final part of said combo. Of course the trick with them then is to watch their TP as they perform combos and make sure they don't run out, since I think they did add that with the change in TP and the way combos work, we will no longer get the "bonus" in 1.0 where no tp was used during combos, so instead of 500-free-free it'll be 500-500-500-500 to use the combo since they are doing away with the positioning aspect I believe.

Of course all that info is subject to change they may work it out differently though it is hard to say til one can actually get a hands on feel of it. Even then it's not like anyone would be able to talk about it. It would be nice if we did get some news on how the ability system will change come 2.0 since it did sound like they wanted to give the classes more abilities to use.

I personally welcome a bit of a change to the job as at the moment it feels like DRG and MNK share too many similarities (regarding play style). The way I understood the combo system for MNK was more of a chain system though.. Where you could do (as an example) a full HF combo > full thrash combo > full DK combo, and chaining those combo's gave you increased dmg for each set of combo's performed (like hmm Skillchains in XI).

I do like the idea of MNK being more of a "martial artist" by giving it defensive / counter / guard abilities and such as well and making it a possible evasion style tank (moreso then it is at least) however I guess all of this is just speculation.

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Originally Posted by SwordCoheir

I believe your thinking of Mystic(Runic) Knight from FF5, although FF11 and FF Tactics Blue Mages do don turbans. I wouldn't completely rely on lore from previous games however, often the roles of jobs become disassociated and varied compared to different titles with only a handful of aspects carried over like RDM being able to melee and cast white and black magic, PLD being a tank or DD with healing abilities, DRK having sacrificing abilities to increase damage, etc the role of a job itself may change.

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The original translation for Mystic Knight was Sorcerer on the PS1 version, hence why many people know it by that name even though Sorcerer doesn't really describe the job very well.

BRD has the feather in the hat.
So hopefully they go with a different art style with a new RDM.
In FFXI, Blue Mage dressed like a FFV Sorcerer. That means the FFV BLU style is still up for grabs!
So RDM should dress like this:

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__...uxedo_Mask.jpg

That's all I want to contribute.
I hope MNK keeps stances and MP reliance.

Tuxedo Mask RDM '.' OMG no!

I think I'd rather keep the elemental stances, they gave monk the ability to do decent damage to enemies who are resistant to physical damage, plus fists of wind was good for getting around quickly in areas chocobos couldn't go. Besides, who's to say that just because monk may get more combos, they'll get rid of stances?

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

It could lose elemental fist and get something like chakra fist which would be the same but not be dependent on elements.

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The only problem with that is that they already established a link between Chakra and aether, that they are pretty much the same thing. Erik would hit you repeatedly for suggesting such a thing, if it didn't hurt his hand. (of course he might have a stick.)

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Originally Posted by Vanguard319

I think I'd rather keep the elemental stances, they gave monk the ability to do decent damage to enemies who are resistant to physical damage, plus fists of wind was good for getting around quickly in areas chocobos couldn't go. Besides, who's to say that just because monk may get more combos, they'll get rid of stances?

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I don't think they'll lose the ability to damage enemies resistant to physical damage. After all, MNK in FFXI had the ability Formless Blows that did the exact same thing but without the elemental flavoring. They could bring that back to replace elemental stances.

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Originally Posted by Wilksha

Tuxedo Mask RDM '.' OMG no!

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Tuxedo Mask RDM ='¬'= OMG yes!

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__...uxedo_Mask.jpg

Tuxedo Mask and RDM work well together.
They both can do anything, and they both are bad at everything.
Yet, their swag is Impossible to Gauge!

http://i.imgur.com/TrT8a.jpg

(I guess this post actually belongs in the 'Fabulous!' thread.)

:D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7CmUpqNlss

I feel that the redesign may actually be done to bring about thief as well. Take away blindside and what not. I think we may actually see thief before redmage. We have daggers and no real class that uses them right now.